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Mumble

MMR scare doctor 'acted unethically'

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Hopefully he will be struck off, as that would put an end to this once and for all.

 

Hi

 

I think this unlikely, seeing as Dr Jane Barton, who's 'treatment' led to deaths, has not even been struck off!

 

My 2 boys had the MMR. They did not have any reaction to it, and they are both on the autistic spectrum. In hindsight they already showed signs of asd before the MMR.

 

I do think they should be doing research into those children who do have severe reactions to the MMR. Unfortunately I imagine no-one will want to touch this sort of research due to AW's treatment by the system.

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KezT   
I do think they should be doing research into those children who do have severe reactions to the MMR

 

actually, if you go looking there are quite a few studies into this - the main problem being that a) adverse reactions are almost certainly under-reported (probably because minor reactions are rarely considered important by the parents as they are expected/advised about) and b.) serious reactions are very diverse so often fal into different stuidies (ie, some may be gastric reations, some are immune responses, some are allergic reactions etc...) and c) serious reactions are extremely rare. In the last research I saw, it was less than 1 in a million to suffer serious reaction, and about 1 in 2 million who suffered "life changing" reactions. That's a very small number of people even considering the number of vaccs given each year, so any research is necessarily very long term.

Edited by KezT

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I dont know about whether the research he did or did not do was right or whatever all I do know for sure is that my son had the MMR vaccination and from that time I had a different child. Up till then he was developing normally, happy, bubby, loved singing along to the Teletubbies, ran to people (anyone!) for cuddles, was always cuddling me and saying 'love you'. He had the MMR because I wanted him to have it. I was sure it was the right thing to do. For a week after he had a raging temperature and was admitted to hospital. When he came home he was listless and not at all himself though I put this change down the the temperature and the horrible time he had just gone through. However eventually I had to face the facts that six months later he was not back to the little boy I had before. Everyone and I do mean everyone who knew him said the same thing, "whats the matter with Jordan?" was the question that we all wanted the answer to.

I dont know if MMR cause d his Aspergers or if it awakened a seed that was there. I dont know.... Ive wracked my brains on this.... Im sure as parents we have all asked ourselves if we did something wrong.... I did what I thought was best at the time and to be honest, if I had known then what I know now I would never have let him have the jab... single vaccines should be offered.... I dont think anyone has the right to take chances with our children... while there is the slightest doubt an alternative should be offered. Incidentally, my sister is a Health Visitor who has given the MMR to thousands of children but she acquired single vaccines for her own children because she didnt trust the MMR, I only wish I had done the same.

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KezT   

My kids all had their MMR jab at 6 weeks old - no running around, watching TV or "love you"'s at that age! Although in retrospect DS had obvious sensory issues from the day he was born.

 

There is no evidence single vaccines are safer - indeed, children are more likely to have a bad reaction from them iirc.

 

In the news today, the Lancet has finally retracted the whole article, saying it should never have been published, even as a "is this worth researching properly" type article becasue of the unethical nature of his "research" methods.

 

Bump is due in 7 weeks. It's a boy. I'm very anxious that it may have an ASD & I know I am going to be totally neurotic about every milestone it does and doesn't hit for years, but there is not a single doubt in my mind that it will have the MMR (well, the 5 in one nowadays) at 6 weeks and all the boosters on time. I've seen children killed and permently disabled by perfectly preventable diseases, I do not have a shadow of a doubt as to the risks involved on both sides of this debate, and will firmly come down on the "possibly" 1 in a million rather than the definitely 1 in 1,000!

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Tally   

I'd never talked about this with my parents before, but my mum brought it up recently and said she was pleased because he made her feel really guilty about me having the MMR. She said she felt really bad because she had to hold me still for the injection - I think she felt like she was to blame that I've had so much difficulty in life.

 

I think she's actually mistaken about me having the MMR because I don't think it was introduced when I was a baby. But either way, I am pleased if this helps parents to not feel guilty any more.

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KezT   
KezT

 

Are you thinking of DTP at 6 weeks? MMR isn't given until 13 months.

 

Actually posting to ask what you mean by 1 in 1,000?

 

You're right - I was thinking of DTP (or DTP+M+P as it is now). probably becos thats the only one my kids have ever reacted to at all LOL. By a year old, DS was showing numerous very obvious AS signs (in retrospect) and other than and extremely high vocab to complain to the nurse who "stabbed" him in the arm, he never reacted to the MMR jab at all. Part of my issue with Dr AWs "research" and the ridiculous publicity he coveted for it, was that it made the public believe that ASD's were caused by external factors, specifically parents choices. Whereas I believe that there have been children affected by a bad reaction to immunizations (obviously) , I do not believe that ASDs are "caused" by anything other than the genetic luck of the draw.

 

the 1 in 1 1,000 was the number of people who develop brain damage complications from measles. The figures for serious & life threatening conditions are around 1 in 20 or worse!

Edited by KezT

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My son was turned 1 year old when he had the MMR, and yes he was walking and talking. I stand by what I said, he changed after the jab. Whatever the why's or wherefore's, I still think that whilst there is even the slightest question mark over the safety of the MMR, parents should be offered the vaccines singly.

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sesley   

I was scared off by doubt for my son now 10 to have the second booster before school MMR, he was fianlly diagnosed at 4 for ASD and like most people look around for a cause,but looking at ourselves and seeing the characteristics he displays its obvious to us his ASD is inherited. He did eventaully have the MMR booster 6 months after he went back to school,because a mumps scare was about and my eldest sons had not been offered ,the booster when they were 5,so they agreed to have the protection when they were 16 and 18, so that they would not risk becoming sterile later from the mumps virus should they contract the illness, and P was with us so we decided he might as well have the booster as well or we will face the same questions later, and he was fine ,no problems, The reason why i know Autism is genetic,is because they the scientists are looking at the possiblity of a pre natal test,like for Downs to find the Autism gene if its in the foetus.

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puffin   

It would be interesting to study the outcomes in those countries where MMR is given much later than the UK.

 

The Finnish study of 500,000 children did not find a correlation between MMR and autism - MMR is not given until 18 months

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sesley   

the reason why autism characteristics show around the time of the MMR is because thats when autism really starts to show,when the development of speech and social and intercativity happen normally usually. Autism of lack of eye contact,the lack of speech and learning and understanding of development and maybe with sensory challenges starting to show all happen around the 15/18 months of the vaccination time,so thats why people with unproved data on the link between mmr and autsim are and were able to put doubt and fear into the population.It did not help the fact that Tony and Cheri Blurp would not disclose that their youngest child had the vaccine or not.

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florrie   
the reason why autism characteristics show around the time of the MMR is because thats when autism really starts to show,when the development of speech and social and intercativity happen normally usually. Autism of lack of eye contact,the lack of speech and learning and understanding of development and maybe with sensory challenges starting to show all happen around the 15/18 months of the vaccination time,so thats why people with unproved data on the link between mmr and autsim are and were able to put doubt and fear into the population.It did not help the fact that Tony and Cheri Blurp would not disclose that their youngest child had the vaccine or not.

 

 

But you shouldn't lose skills, many children lost skills after the MMR

 

also many autistic children have been awarded in the US for MMR vaccine damage, such as Hannah Poling so it isn't safe for everyone

Edited by florrie

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florrie   

I do not understand the hatred toward Dr Wakefield, all he actually said was that he believed there should be further research, he did not actually say MMR caused autism, just that it should be researched to see if there is a link.

 

I agree with him, there should be research as to why some children became ill and lost skills after MMR vaccine

Edited by florrie

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the problem with this is it is impossible to seperate events. jordansmums child obviously had a serious reaction to the vaccine, but it may well be that the prolonged fever and not the vaccine itself that caused the problem. i didn't have the MMR until i was 5 as it hadn't come in until then, and i was showing signs of autism long before that, so i think if it has any relationship it is a very loose one. it may be a catalyst for a kind of extended fever which can cause damage, but then any vaccination can do that. some children become ill after other vaccines, but because of this false report it is assumed that MMR is the big bad when i bet if they did a proper study of children who have severe reactions to early childhood vaccines a large number of them go on to be diagnosed with medical conditions/ learning difficulties etc. (i had a severe allergic raction to a hepatitis B vaccine a couple of years ago which would have been life threatening except it happened so fast i was still in the chair and the nurse started piling all sorts of drugs into me straight away, but it didn't do anything except make me ill)

Edited by NobbyNobbs

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Tally   
I do not understand the hatred toward Dr Wakefield, all he actually said was that he believed there should be further research, he did not actually say MMR caused autism, just that it should be researched to see if there is a link.

The media is not a good place to read about scientific research, and they were particularly irresponsible over the MMR/autism issue and blew it up out of all proportion. Most people know only what they read in the newspapers, they didn't read his paper to see what he actually said.

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:notworthy: (clicky the smiley :))

 

Late, but at least it starts to put this to rest. As they just said on the news, now people can concentrate on scientifically validated research. :thumbs:

 

Hopefully he will be struck off, as that would put an end to this once and for all.

 

 

I don't. I fully support this Dr for raising issues of relevance to our autistic children, and appalled at the BMA/GMC and government witch hunt to discredit him to shut him up. There are a number of parents of Autistic children who strongly believe MMR has a case to answer, especially the triple vaccine. Many are not satisfied with the glib approach they are talking rubbish and there is no basis in this, or even you are just a statistic, no vaccine is perfect..... we have seen our children destroyed in front of us, hours after MMR and do not ever get a proper explanation or research done into why this is happening. As long as they continue to rubbish our feelings, ignore our concerns, we will continue to believe they are hiding something. A lot of parents also refused the swine flu vaccinations because of still concerns over the effects on autistic children. No parent complained did they ? and was there not a lot of visible support for him too... the opposition seems solely based on the fact MMR take up dropped, and not, because it may have contributed to autism. They are scared rigid if this ever proves to be true, so a concerted campaign to ridicule has taken place, and, failed as I can see. Parents still believe there is something in MMR. We still need in depth research into vaccines, and the swine flu one was hastily developed, and put out with many medical people refusing to have it, while advising we did. This is no way to run a health awareness service or inspire confidence, and research it aint, we are being used as human guinea pigs and our children are.

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A and A   

Surely the fact that it has been reported by so many that their child's regression started around the time of receiving the MMR warrants proper and in depth research? Until that is undertaken the doubt will always be there for many parents. I didn't have any doubts about the vaccine 3 years ago, thought it was a load of hyped up rubbish, didnt have any concerns about my son receiving it. My views have changed now, although i'm not total convinced the MMR caused our sons autism, i still would like extensive research done. Then one day we could forget about MMR one way or another and then move research into other possible causes.

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qwerty   

Hi, I am new here! Just wanted to share some links I found recently!

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/201.../britvaxautism/

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/200...3/japvaxautism/

These graphs show how the number of children developing autism rose and fell in direct proportion to the number of children vaccinated each year.

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coolblue   
Hi, I am new here! Just wanted to share some links I found recently!

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/201.../britvaxautism/

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/200...3/japvaxautism/

These graphs show how the number of children developing autism rose and fell in direct proportion to the number of children vaccinated each year.

 

 

Sincere apologies to the above poster if I'm wrong, but this looks a bit spammy. I'm not going to click on the links.

 

Correlations tell you little about causality. Autism is an umbrella term referring to characteristics that could be caused by a lot of different things - different causes in different children. Diagnosis is very patchy and variable and there's a lot of debate about it. MMR is a complex vaccination featuring a number of factors, some of which might impact on some children and not others. We need to do some carefully planned research to find out what, if any the impact is.

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qwerty   

Sincere apologies to the above poster if I'm wrong, but this looks a bit spammy. I'm not going to click on the links.

 

Thanks a lot for the nice welcome! :) The links really are graphs, not just for MMR but for vaccine uptake in general.

I have to get my profile in order when I have time!

 

For examlple this vaccine manufacturer actually lists autism as a side-effect of their DTPa vaccine!!"Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea." (Page 11)

 

https://www.vaccineshoppe.com/image.cfm?doc...ype=product_pdf

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