Son with ASD who is totally different in school to home am so confused really need advice?????

[manicmum]

Hi everyone i am new here and need some advice if you dont mind,

 

I have a son who is 6yrs old who has a full time statement in school and i had his parents evening last night and was told he seems to lack motivation to learn, is very quiet within the class and comes across as independent as he will prefer to sit by himself rather then within the group of children on the carpet. He teacher informed me that he shows no signs of challenging behaviour can just be a bit stubbon will let out random noises during lessons but she often thinks there isnt much wrong with him as he copes really well but then wil do a few things that are a ASD trait.

 

At home he is completely the opposite he is demanding, agressive both verbal and physical, will line up toys and if you go near thenm he goes hysterical, i find it very hard to reason with him, he is constantly on the go fliting from one thing to another, sees no danger and will think nothing of getting the carving knife out the cupboard, has bouts of screaming non stop and very arguementive.....The list can go on and on

 

I am so confused why is he so different with me it almost at school he copes with it and shows limited signs of ASD to make you query have they got the right diagnosis yet and home i would say most definately

 

I often wonder if its coz i am a single mum i must just be a bad parent but surely even if i was it wouldnt cause him to spin in circles, line things up,have obessions I actually thought that by him having a diagnosis i would find it eaiser but if anything i find it harder because he is so differnt in the too places it almost like he stores it all at school then expoldes when he gets in......

 

Sorry i am waffling on now but if anyone is in the same situation with there child please let me know as i am so confused and frustrated at the mo

 

Thanks xx

[zeldasmum]

Hya

 

I am lucky in the way that my son now 6 doesn't have any challenging behaviour in terms of agression. From being 6mths old to 30mths he was very challenging and aggressive. i don't know why he changed so I can't offer any advice.

 

From other posts I have read this seems a common theme behaving at school and storing it for home.

 

I am sure someone will come along a give you some useful advice just wanted to hi and hang on in there your not alone.

 

xx

[JsMum]

Firstly this is very common with children on the Autism Spectrum Disorder to show different behaviors at school to home.

 

A lot has to do with how safe he feels at home and if he is able to express his feelings freely, at school he may have more restraints and a school has a very basic routine outline that may help him feel some predictability to the day.

 

It is widely expresed on this forum, new and old posts.

 

here on the NAS website there is this information.

 

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/different-behaviour-between-school-and-home.aspx

 

At school they have set teachers to do set jobs, at home especially if your a single mum your everything from mummy, to cleaner to chef, to nurse, your roles have mulitplied and so there demands are massive.

 

It is not your parenting, thats for sure.

 

JsMumx

[LS2242]

Hi Manicmum,

It is nice to hear this, as we are in the exact same position. In school, other than the odd occurrence he copes and manages well. However at home a different child. I have also questioned my parenting skills and felt I was at fault. The school seem to think I am making it all up. My son who is 9 does not have the official dx yet. The psychologist has been into school with me and told the school he has Aspergers and that the dx will be written up shortly. I have questioned this different behaviour with the psychologist so many times, he must be sick of me by now. He explains it to me that in school my son has learnt how to manage certain things and the predictability school brings helps him cope. However lots of little things he is bottling up inside until the end of the school day he needs that well earnt

release. His confidence in us allows him to be himself and not try to hide and mask the person he is. I take this in the positive form that he is relaxed and confident with us that he feels able to express himself.

At home he has his release which could be anything from shouting, lashing out, throwing things. To deal with this we have been showing him other ways to let out his anger by scribbling on paper. Once the release had passed we encourage him to talk to us about what has upset, annoyed him during the day. Amazing things we found out. Ranged from bullying, his perception that he was bullied, children invading his working area, children borrowing his things without asking, lots are to do with the unspoken rules which he does not understand.

Recently we have just started a book at home which documents both thecpoditivescandvthe negatives of the school day - school have been asked to do the same. Unbelievable differences but the psychologist told us it is because he has not the confidence with his teacher, the fact that he hates being asked questions and his perception of situations.

I too had a patents evening and from discussions with his teacher abs from what he was saying he basically has done his own little assessments and does not believe a word I say. I don't listen to this and I now contact the head with any issues that arise. I go on what the psychologist tells me, as he has more knowledge than our particular teaching staff.

 

I would suggest finding ways for your child to be to let out all the emotions but in a controlled way. Keep a partnership going with the school and most of all believe in yourself. You are mum and know your child better than anyone.

 

Take care

 

LS x x

[LS2242]

Sorry about all the spelling mistakes. Hope u can make sense of my other post.

Your not alone :-)

[LS2242]

Just to explain the reasoning behind doing our daily book of positives and negatives. Firstly because he is himself at home and now confides in us, the aim is to build a picture and get a clearer understanding of any issues which keep arising at school whether it be down to his perception or others. If the same issue keeps arising that gives us a starting point to try and reduce the anxiety. Social stories are supposed to be introduced to him at school now when there is going to be a big change to the school day.

Just by going these little things we have seen some great responses. I am not sure if it is the calm before the storm , time will tell.

[baddad]

Hi -

The theory that children 'cope' in school and save it up for when they get home because they feel safe to let it out is a popular one, I know, but my own opinion is that often it has more to do with behaviours being tolerated, accepted, excused and even 'rewarded' at home. Most children, whether autistic or not, will seek to control their environment if they can - it's perfectly natural human behaviour. If they learn that behaving badly or aggressively gets them what they want they will behave badly or aggressively. It's perfectly natural human behaviour, and applies to many adults too.

There are all sorts of posts on the forum about reward schemes - star charts, 'golden time', reward tokens etc - and all of these can help, as can things like social stories and Time Out etc., but they can only work where the child doesn't maintain control by enacting the behaviours; so sanctions, firm guidelines, solid definitions and expectations and - most importantly - known and concrete boundaries with no exceptions made, are, IMO, an absolute must.

Every child goes through this 'phase' - in fact, there will be many such phases as children grow and struggle both for further independence/autonomy and for 'status' within the family structure. How long these phases last, and where they eventually come to understand their position to be (and if allowed, that will be total tyrant and despot) will depend entirely on the responses they get to behaviours and how successful they are.

Funny thing is, I've never seen a child yet who doesn't feel happier and more secure once they know what to expect and what's expected of them, regardless of how much they buck against it while the lines are being established. That, ultimately, is mum and dad's reward for 'sticking to their guns' when it sometimes felt hard: happier, healthier children with maximised social skills and opportunities.

 

HTH

 

Oh - PS: Just reread your post and wanted to add re the last bit that I'm not in any way suggesting 'bad parenting' is the root of the problem. It is very easy for any parent - especially a single parent with a strong-willed child - to get into a position where the boundaries are a bit more relaxed than they could be. It's also very much easier to 'guilt trip' yourself into making too many allowances for a disabled child than for a non-disabled child, though that said there's plenty of evidence that parents of non-disabled kids overcompensate too!

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited October 22, 2010 by baddad

[BusyLizzie100]

Firstly this is very common with children on the Autism Spectrum Disorder to show different behaviors at school to home.

 

A lot has to do with how safe he feels at home and if he is able to express his feelings freely, at school he may have more restraints and a school has a very basic routine outline that may help him feel some predictability to the day.

 

JsMumx

 

It is indeed very common, and very well documented. Of course it doesn't mean that every single autistic child will have different behaviours in different settings; some even do it the other way round and are 'well behaved' at home and much more challenging at school.

 

I have three children on the spectrum, and all behave differently. My youngest (8yrs) seems at the moment to be presenting the same at school as well as at home, ie with challenging behaviour, mainly verbally aggressive and oppositional.

 

My middle one was very passive at school until he experienced, for example, sensory overload or teasing, then his behaviour became more challenging and he would lash out at the other children. As a youngster (he's now 10) his behaviour was very challenging at home but at school his passivity and lack of engagement meant he disappeared into the background. Now that his needs are being met at a specialist autism school his behaviour is much more balanced all round, and definitely improving. Now that the stress of the mainstream environment has been removed, he is much more able to learn how to manage his behaviour. As a result he is so much more tolerant at home and even his brothers have noticed the big improvement...!

 

My eldest son (12yrs), on the face of things, appears to cope very well at school. However he experiences intense and crippling anxieties that are affecting his mental health. These anxieties have been building over the years, and over the years his behaviour at home has become more challenging.

 

He is now on anti-depressants to help him cope with school life. The psychologist and psychiatrist are both clear that he does not feel empowered to express himself at school, which is actually contributing to issues with his mental health, and it is an important part of his statement that his needs are subtle but significant and he masks his anxiety.

 

He is now at mainstream secondary. Because his school are not seeing the anxiety or the subsequent 'release' behaviour at home, they are not putting the Part 3 provision into place. The effect is that his mental health issues are being further exacerbated.

 

Ironically the school IS seeing signs of his anxiety, but they are not aware of what the subtleties in his behaviour mean, and so are not acting on it. (Of course they notice when he vomits in class because of his anxiety.)

 

This could be the case with your son, Manicmum. For example, the teacher is saying that he lacks motivation to learn and sits quietly by himself; perhaps she should be asking why this is. Is your son getting input from, for example, autism outreach? Perhaps strategies could be put in place to help your son engage on a level that is meaningful for him - if school is totally incomprehensible to him, he probably does feel fed up and annoyed and is expressing that at home.

 

His teacher may see no signs of challenging behaviour, but behaviour can be challenging in many different ways. My middle son began disengaging at mainstream to the extent where he would shut his eyes when the teacher was talking to him. He didn't hit her, but he blocked her out and hit us instead, often when he stepped out of the classroom door at the end of the day and we were there to meet him.

 

My advice is that your son's teacher, and probably the school, need more support in how to support your son. I would ask how they are attempting to engage him, what strategies are they using and how are they putting targets together for an IEP. You say he has a statement; is the Educational Psychologist involved? It may be worth asking for his/her advice and input, as well as autism outreach.

 

You say your son has a diagnosis; it's not up to the school to diagnose or re-diagnose, or for any of us to do similar. Hopefully his needs are identified in his statement, the purpose of which is to inform the school so that they know what they need to do.

 

You could also approach your GP or paediatrician about referral to CAMHS, although it seems to be a bit of a postcode lottery as to how good they are. A clinical psychologist with knowledge of autism may be able to identify the differences in your son's behaviour more clearly, and actually express that to school and provide strategies.

 

In the case of my eldest son, the psychologist was able to attend his Annual Review meeting and inform school about his behaviour out of school, and how to interpret the signs of his anxiety in school (unfortunately now he's moved up a year we have to start all over again!).

 

Hope that helps a little. Good luck,

Lizzie x

[chris54]

Just reread the first paragraph of the opening post. Its clear to me that the teacher doesn't have a clue. By full time statement do you mean he has full time one to one. If so what are the doing all day. To say that there is no challenging behavior at school, it may not be physical, but some of what is talked about is, IMO, challenging behavior.

 

I think the school need help to understand your child's needs and how to engage him in school.

 

It sound, to me, that he is probably bored stiff at school.

[justine1]

Hi

I got 2 boys with ASD.Sam is 7 and he is wonderful/well behaved at home,very sweet and was very challenging at school,though he now goes to an ASD unit and no longer is aggressive.

 

Dan age 4,is quite similar to your son.He is very challenging at home,though he is not aggressive,and is very placid at school.They know he is intelligent but he doesnt communicate much and wont participate.Luckily when I went for his assessment they could see the two sides of his personality,the side where he is so demanding and the side where he appears to "shut down"

 

Not sure what to suggest but if he has a statement they should be meeting his needs if they cant they can call an emergency review and see if its the best place for him to be.I know with my 7yr old the school was the main issue even though he had support at school it made no difference.Academically he is coming on very well.

 

Another thing is to maybe introduce things like timers,visual plans and rewards/sanctions,at home if you have not dont so already.These things maybe in place at school making it easier for him to follow the rules but if he hasnt got that at home and hasnt got the rules written(or "pictured") up on the wall somewhere then he cannot comply.

[bid]

Hi manicmum,

 

I don't know if the perspective of an adult with a dx of AS might be helpful. I can completely understand this phenomenon of a child presenting differently at school and home. It was certainly the case with my now-adult son.

 

I work full-time in a pretty stressful job leading a team of 3 other people. I have to expend huge amounts of concentration and emotional energy playing a role for want of a better expression to 'hide' the more obvious aspects of my autism...which is something I think a lot of passive children do within school. I think I do very well, but last night I had very bad sensory integration problems and had to ask my line manager for some time out as I was shaking and couldn't stay in my particular work environment. I've never had such a bad experience at work before in the nearly 6 years I've been there. I'm lucky in that I work in a special school where everyone has a good understanding of autism, and my line manager was great (in fact she sent me into the therapy room to sit on the fantastic swing platform thing ).

 

Anyway, I'm an adult, who is very aware of my autism now at 40-blip and how things affect me, but when I get in from work I still have to have time on my own to recover from the effects of work...when I was day staff I often had to go to sleep as coping with my shift had been so overwhelming. I think with children, who haven't yet developed as much self-awareness and coping strategies it is very understandable that the lid comes off all the feelings they have suppressed throughout the school day. I wonder how I would have coped last night with my bad episode if I hadn't been in an environment that understands autism? Of course, they need firm boundaries and clear expectations to manage this behaviour, but I think the source of it comes from holding everything in all day. It's hard to explain the huge strain that it can place upon someone with AS, but for myself at least I can vouch that it is very real.

 

HTH

 

Bid

Edited October 22, 2010 by bid

[LS2242]

That was such a good insight Bid. Thank you for sharing this. I think it is so important to get the views of the child/adult who is experiencing these difficulties first hand.

[smiley1590]

i have A.S i used to hold it all in and together at school and fall apart and to pieces at home ... burst into tears get frustrated annoyed at myself .... made feel really drained mentally as tried so hard to keep it all in all time .... used to get so stressed ....

 

XKX

[bid]

Thanks LS2242

 

Last night has set me thinking alot about both the youngsters I work with and my own son when he was little. When he went to his special school he had a lot of 1:1 work to help him identify his emotions by linking them to how his body responded physically (e.g. starting to feel all hot and tense if angry, etc) because they realised he had huge problems identifying his emotions. For 10 years he had been passive within mainstream school, suppressing everything until he had a breakdown. I remember in his Statement it also stated that he expressed his emotions non-verbally.

 

When you think about such a complex psychology(?) it's not surprising that emotions can be played out hapahazardly. For us this passivity at school unravelled at home through challenging behaviour, moreso when he was little (which was tackled by appropriate boundaries and expectations), but when he was older as severe mental health problems, self-harm episodes, black-outs and panic attacks that resembled a seizure.

 

Bid

Edited October 22, 2010 by bid

[Mumble]

she sent me into the therapy room to sit on the fantastic swing platform thing

Can I have one please?

[LS2242]

So Bid and Smiley1590. As you both can relate to this, I think your input in this thread is soooo valuable. Looking at this in hindsight is there anything that could have been done that eased your feelings when you where younger. Was there anything that you found helpful?

Don't feel obliged to share all your experiences but I think your knowledge could help people in this situation

Edited October 22, 2010 by LS2242

[LS2242]

So Bid and Smiley1590. As you both can relate to this, I think your input in this thread is sloop valuable. Looking at this in hindsight is there anything that could have been done that eased your feelings when you where younger. Was there anything that you found helpful?

Don't feel obliged to share all your experiences but I think your knowledge could help people in this situation

[LS2242]

Sorry was supposed to say soooo not sloop

[manicmum]

Hi everyone thank you so much for your response to my message its been a great comfort reading them knowing i am not alone in the situation

 

My son was having some one from the Autism outreach team coming out to see him in school and offer strageties to school but apparently due to funding and cutback etc she no longer comes??

As for the educational psychologist i have seen her since he started school and she helped put the statement in place.

 

I have made a appointment to see his clinical psychologist next week so am going to go and talk about me concerns with her as she has been brillant and really helped since i have been seeing her.

 

The more i think about i do wonder why does he lack motivation to learn?? If you get him talking about cars and animals he thrives on wanting to know more about them. She showed me some of his work and when he has support he can produce some lovely work but if he does work unguided then after a hour litrecey lesson he wrote 4 words!!!

 

Think i may have to go in and talk with the head teacher as i always thought by having 1:1 full time support then he had help through out the day but from what my son has said i dont think this is happening and surely if it was then he wouldnt lack motivation to work as someone would be with him to keep encouraging him at all times???

 

Thanks again everyone i am so glad i found this site as at times things can feel very lonely and confusing but i can see from me posting this message already its going to be a helpful site xx

[JsMum]

Hi everyone thank you so much for your response to my message its been a great comfort reading them knowing i am not alone in the situation

 

My son was having some one from the Autism outreach team coming out to see him in school and offer strageties to school but apparently due to funding and cutback etc she no longer comes??

As for the educational psychologist i have seen her since he started school and she helped put the statement in place.

 

I have made a appointment to see his clinical psychologist next week so am going to go and talk about me concerns with her as she has been brillant and really helped since i have been seeing her.

 

The more i think about i do wonder why does he lack motivation to learn?? If you get him talking about cars and animals he thrives on wanting to know more about them. She showed me some of his work and when he has support he can produce some lovely work but if he does work unguided then after a hour litrecey lesson he wrote 4 words!!!

 

Think i may have to go in and talk with the head teacher as i always thought by having 1:1 full time support then he had help through out the day but from what my son has said i dont think this is happening and surely if it was then he wouldnt lack motivation to work as someone would be with him to keep encouraging him at all times???

 

Thanks again everyone i am so glad i found this site as at times things can feel very lonely and confusing but i can see from me posting this message already its going to be a helpful site xx

 

I recommend you contact Ipsea to see if someone can go throw your sons statement, it maybe that it is not specified and specific enough, if it is, then it may be that the school are not abiding by your sons statement.

 

So contact Ipsea, they are very difficult to get throw but it is worth the patience to try and until you do.

 

 

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/

 

Also National Autistic Society have a Educational Helpline they again are worth there weight in gold too.

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/advice-and-support/advocacy-for-education-service/advocacy-for-education-service-in-england-and-wales.aspx

 

 

The issue where you say he is not motivated in lessons but is quite happy to learn more when its cars and other interests of his, is very common too, which is positive because the school could use those interests as a way to engage him into the lesson, the other word that I use when J is not motivated, is Disengaged, a very important word when sharing your concerns about your sons education because a disengaged child will not learn!

 

They shut down and turn off, its how they cope with a stressful situation.

 

It also shows that with SUPPORT your son thrives and produces excellent work.

 

It is clear that your sons frustration at home is due to his needs not been met at school.

 

JsMumx

[bid]

So Bid and Smiley1590. As you both can relate to this, I think your input in this thread is sloop valuable. Looking at this in hindsight is there anything that could have been done that eased your feelings when you where younger. Was there anything that you found helpful?

Don't feel obliged to share all your experiences but I think your knowledge could help people in this situation

 

I think the most important thing would have been if anyone had realised I had AS. At that time, I was just seen as very bright and consequently very odd. So I guess, the starting point would be talking openly and in a positive way about autism with your child, offering practical solutions as far as possible. However, I know this isn't necessarily easy, as my son never wanted to talk about his difficulties or engage in working on solutions!

 

I was passive at both school and home, in that I internalised my feelings. I can remember some incidents of being aggressive to other children when I was little at school, but my overwhelming response was lots and lots of tears at home rather than challenging behaviour...from what I have read and heard, this seems to be quite a common presentation in girls with AS. I was crippled by self-hatred really because I knew I was different, but thought it was because I was abnormal and dysfunctional and consequently pretty worthless. I think if it had been possible to dx me back then it would have been an enormous help. I thought so many things were me being inadequate, because I didn't realise it was something 'wrong', i.e I have prosopagnosia and sensory integration disorder too, and when I was at school a degree of synesthaesia although this has lessened as I've got older.

 

Practical help that would have made a huge difference when I was at secondary school in particular would have been a visual timetable of each week/half term. I didn't have any concept of 'time' (still don't) and unless I can see it written down I can't 'see' tomorrow/next week, etc, in my head, if that makes any sense. So I always felt sort of adrift...I was always surprised when it was the end of the week, or the end of term. I also would have benefitted from a map of my secondary school...it was only once I got to the sixth form that I finally worked out my way round, rather than just following other people. I still have this problem at work as I'm based in one area of a very large site! But having a visual framework to define time and what is going to happen and when removes one layer of stress.

 

Bid

[manicmum]

Thanks Jsmum for the advice and the links i will check them out appriecate the support xx

[Grace]

Hi,

 

'comes across as independent as he will prefer to sit by himself rather then within the group of children on the carpet'

 

Independent? I'm afraid if she can not understand that this is classic autism behaviour, then the autism outreach team really need to be going back in. What you have described could have come straight out of my DS's diagnostic report; basically that he did not know why he was at school, what it was all about, what he was supposed to do and did not engage with the other children.

I think your DS might not be showing his anxiety in the form of overt behavioural difficulties yet (at school), but I think as there are more demands placed on him, he could be unable to hold it all in and it will start to come out at school.

Be aware however that although some schools can be very good at working with parents to sort out problems, there are equally those that deny there are any problems, even when it gets to the point, where other parents are letting you know in the playground, in no uncertain terms that your child has behavioural issues!

 

Do you have speech and language input at school? Sometimes, if they are going into the school, they can be very good at drip feeding the teachers little tips e.g. visual timetable, visual prompts, time-out, safe-haven etc, and if they are working with your DS at school, they might be very aware of any of the tell-tale signs that he is anxious that someone less autism-aware might not pick up on.

 

Grace/x

[smiley1590]

there was alot of things i felt that could have been put in place to ease situations make life bearable especially in mainstream education setting i felt missing key behind background was understanding and knowledge of information of A.S etc as only at around 7-8 i was officially diagnosed with dyspraxia from shove and push from my mum to paedtrician as he listened more to my juniors school SENCO who poked her nose right in making it awakard and impossible to work with grr professionals if couldn't see it it wasn't there for attention imagined anything but something wrong where they'd have 'step up' make stand and do do something about it to help and support! they left me with low self -esteem for years as i was isolated in my 'own world' and had NO friends just class mates hung around people make seem like i HAD friends never invited parties out and about miss out on so much and low self esteem is taken away robbed in childhood years knocked doe teachers comments treatments of you you start to believe it and think you are negative labels they dish out constantly that it is your FAULT you are to BLAME! just adds to the pressure and strain of the whole background .... which continues in circle but if not dealt with appropriatelty end up feeling failure worthless good for nothing which carry on throughout your life that never really fades stays with you but wanting prove them doubters so damn wrong and making something of YOU and your AS life! so can stick two fingers up to them for a change turn it round on them but can leave you pyschology scarred i personally believe on what i experienced myself it hell and end up with more MH probs ( depression,anxiety/panic attacks,self-harm etc) adding up by second if not understood end up bitter frustrated angry at the world anyone and everyone that how you see it as ain't know it any other way before! hope this insight helps you some!

 

XKLX

[smiley1590]

nothing i could really say found helpful when younger as didn't know i was A.S until early teens hit me at 14! but i have come to realise through all of this knowledge is pwerful tool and key unlock out world and find about more IF society WANTS too as sometimes can't be bothered as too much effort to look closer deeper slower underneath i do feel bitter and angry that A.S wasn't detected sooner so annoying frustrating can't moan really as luckier than some on here! so enough of that! knowledge of information and diagnosis gives you pieces of jigsaw that can work through without that in a busy foggy maze lost confused and just goes on and on ... never ending .... it can be horrid mess sort through all missing bits if had years of your childhood 'robbed' 'stolen' by A.S unknown makes want lash out at anyone blaming someone i always laid the blame hatred like so many others out there back on me! and due to low self-esteem and now MH probs depression self harm vicious circle once started going snowballs out of control hard to break free again!

 

XKX

[smiley1590]

when had blame fault pointed at me laid directly at me all time wears you down mentally you get tired of fighting and want scream shout anything nothing will come out made several poems linked to this subject of mainstream education system story behind how let me down failured me and my family offered miminial support and help and would been different if had known all along the something else other than dyspraxia when officially diagnosed was A.S ? how opposite COULD this childhood school story hellish nightmare could trun round quick ....??? i often sit and wonder WHAT and IF'S ....??? dyspraxia in my SEN record notes my mum keeps in folder i looked back discovered they say in one that only display 'some of' Clumsy Child Syndrome ( dyspraxia) signs but thinking about it now some that my mum has wrote down signs on notebook paper i would class as mixed dyspraxia and A.S now .... lack of information and knowledge an reasonable excuse to sit back do nothing .... watch me struggle on endlessly keep coming back for more .... i feel didn't have a childhood really ... or teens as taken up with A.S ,M.H probs the list keeps on and on in my life get sick of it!