Help please!

[Mother in Need]

My AS son threatened his older brother with a knife twice last night... it was really scary and really serious and either of them could have gotten seriously hurt.

How do I deal with this? How do I convince the older one and my youngest that all is fine and they are safe? are they....no...

How do I stop this from happening again? How can I ever leave my AS one out of my sight as this happened in front of my nose and I could only barely stop him from using it?

[nellie]

Mother in Need, <'>

 

It's awful when this happens and I appreciate how difficult it is to handle the situation. I can only suggest you do your own risk assessment and take measures to ensure everyone?s safety. If necessary make sure all knives and similar tools are kept under lock and key.

 

Hopefully someone else can come up with some answers.

 

Nellie xx

[oracle]

I have to agree with Nellie as I have been there and done this.Moved all knives and kept them under lock and key.

 

I also took a 0 tolerance stance to any kind of physical aggression or threats. The rule was, and still is, if the eldest can not stand the youngest then 'HE' removes himself from the room or wherever the youngest is. There is ten years between my two and we have had some terrible times with the eldest. Both of mine have ASD but because there is a ten year age gap I made the rule that it must be the eldest who removes himself from any volcanic situations. This may not appear to be fair but we then gave him a bolt on his door to make sure that the youngest did not pursue him.

 

He has weilded a knife in the direction of my husband twice, who took it from him on both ocassions, which I don't know if I would of dared. He made it clear that knife or no knife, he is not in control of this house - we are. If there are any outburst sof aggression I never back down, even if I am scared. You must not give in and you must remember that your other son does deserve to feel safe.

 

Believe me I know that it's not easy.

 

<'> Carole

[Mother in Need]

I have already removed knifes and scissors out of sight for now, but I have to be able to cook, and frankly, my 12 year old AS son often helps me to do so, so he too needs to use those knifes....

 

I took the knifes of him on both occasions as i preferred to be stabbed than either of my sons (my eldest was getting ready for an untrained karate kick which I think would have really made the whole thing explode and my AS son is stronger than me so....)

 

But now my eldest is pretty scared though he won't admit it. He did ask for a lock on his bedroom door so he won't wake up with a knife stuck in him....

he is so fed up with having his brother with behavioural difficulties, and he also wears the brunt at college where they say to him 'oh, you're the brother of that ****' He won't tell me what those ****s tand for, but he was in tears and he hasn't cried for some time so it is all really hurting him loads.

 

AS son ran away in the middle of a dark forest earlier on in the middle of meltdown and I had to leave my youngest alone in the dark (of which he is afraid) to run after his brother. It is all so unfair and his brothers can only take so much. Begging the psychiatrist for medication is the only way I can see.

 

How do you enforce 0 tolerance for someone who can't control himself and whom I cannot shift physically out of the way to a safe place?

[Elanor]

Hello

 

There might be a role for medication in this problem - perhaps risperidone, which is used to reduce aggression in children with AS (including my own son - we've never had problems as extreme as yours, but I think we might have without the meds). Could you speak with your GP, or even better, your local CAMHS?

 

I know that this route can be very difficult for parents to go down, but we decided that the needs of my son and the family as a whole outweighed the downsides of medication, and after 2 years, haven't regretted our choice.

 

Elanor

[Suze]

So sorry your family is suffering.My AS son is younger but reacts violently towards his younger sister, he,s hit her with a stick and thrown things at her. <'> <'> <'> big hugs for you all wish I had a solution

[streamdreams]

My AS son threatened his older brother with a knife twice last night = HELP

 

First thing; the level of the violence directly proportional to the level of the distress, desperation and fear. Probably the most scared person in the room was you?re AS son!

 

I don?t know what the story was about, but the words are probably the clue. they probably don?t make much sense though and when you find out what the stimulus was, the response will probably seem unjustifiable. it's not for nothing the americans call this meltdown. I will bet it is the last straw, in a long line of events.

 

Medication may be appropriate, may be long term maybe short term and as to what the will need a qualified DR.

 

I have been there before, I just wish I could help your son to cry in comfort and washi it all away.

 

He is not alone but I doubt he will never know that for a long time to come.

 

 

J

[bid]

Hi <'>

We had similar problems last year. IKEA sell a lockable, metal cabinet for �10, which we put up on the wall in the kitchen. We kept all iknives, etc locked away in there. We did have to watch things at meal times, as twice he grabbed a knife that was waiting to be washed up

 

BUT...I feel strongly that you need to find out what is causing this behaviour. Your son is communicating his anxiety non-verbally. Does he self-harm at all? Sorry, I can't remember if your son is in mainstream, statemented, etc...

 

For my son, the acute stress of struggling for 10 years in mainstream with absolutely no help reduced him to a similar level of depression and anxiety. The only solution we were offered was additional meds. But I felt very strongly that this was not the answer...what needed changing was my son's environment. So he came out of mainstream school, I took him off all meds, and started the fight to get a Statement and a place at a residential special school for AS.

 

Once he was out of mainstream, things very slowly started to improve, but it did take months. We were fortunate to get him a place at a wonderful school, which has truly transformed his life. He still needs no meds, no longer self-harms amd the knives are back in the kitchen drawers. And most importantly, he is happy for the first time since he went to school at 5

 

Steps like we took are scary, and it can be very hard to refuse meds from a supportive doctor, but our children act like this for a reason and after years of medicating my son I really do believe that the only real solution is to change the environment.

 

Hope I haven't offended anyone

 

Bid

[oracle]

You have not offended me Bid as I identify with everything you have said. David's aggression and anger were also born from being in a system he was unable to cope with for 10 years. It took a very long time before the began aggression to subside and we also needed some very firm ground rules and structure, which I know can be difficult to stick with, while you live through the fall out. My son was 6ft 2in and built like a Rugby player but we got there. He needed to know what we expected of him when he was finding it difficult to cope. OK it took two years to reach this point but we stood firm. We too locked away knives etc and only brought them out to cook.

 

I never say never with meds but for David I did not believe they were the answer. Understanding what caused the explosions and then teaching him how to remove himself before he got to that point have been the way forward for us.

 

There have been times when I did worry that he would snap my youngests neck. So I do know first hand what aggression can do.

 

It's not a nice place to be

 

Carole

[Mother in Need]

Yes, he was the most frightened person in the room, and yes he is in mainstram with no help. and yes, he is 12 with a lot of brute force and loads of adrenaline flowing through him, and he has just started puberty. And yes I am desperately trying to get help for him, at school and at home, and for him to learn those lessons that come so naturally for NT children, like identifying feelings, how to act when distressed etc. BUT nobody is helping, I am a single parent of 3 with no family, CAHMS have done nothing other than diagnose and school hasn't got a clue what they're on about. I've had to go around their backs to get the statementing proces started and am working on my parental representation. BUT school doesn't see his aggression nor his desperation, he 'seems' to manage there.

I've had to have a lawyer threaten SS with court case to get them to assess our needs which hopefully they'll start on this week, but even if they do admit we need help it'll be a very long time before anything is put in place. But meanwhile..

[bid]

Mother in Need <'>

 

I do know how awful it is to be in your situation.

 

I tried twice for a Stat Ass for my son (at 5 and 8), but failed It was only when I found this forum that I gained both the knowledge and the confidence to fight effectively for my son.

 

Have you considered a special school for AS? If you are fighting for a Satement, you might as well go the 'whole mile' if that's what you think is right for your son.

 

There is brilliant advice here over writing your parental representation If you want any info about going for a special school, feel free to PM me.

 

Bid <'>

[asereht]

My son was really bad a few months ago look back at my posts for july.

 

We thought we had come to the end of the line and considered medication to be the only option other than putting him out of the house which I could never really do but my other children were suffering . I almost had a breakdown .

 

Now he is fine most of the time and hardly ever aggressive. What did we do to achieve this? Took him out of mainstream school .

 

Hope things improve for you soon . Sorry I have no better advice. <'>

 

Theresa

[Malika]

Hi mother in need,

believe me I know what you mean and feel so sad to hear one more of the terrible stories from mothers trying to cope with no help or consideration.

 

Yes it is the frustration and lack of kindness and understanding at school which makes our children agressives.

 

I had similar pb with my son (now 8) since he was 3 he would break things at home and lash out on his older sister. I have tried to train him with systhematic disaprouval and taking away treats and explaining that one day he would hurt his sister badly. As well last year we forbed him to touch a knife or a scissors for weeks untill he had stoped threatening his sister with it and cutting his trousers the new ones of course!!!

I am not too sure yet but he seems to be much calmer and has not lashed out against her for 4 weeks as last time that happened I told him it was a bad thing to do and I wanted him to control himself if not one day he may hurt somebody so much that they could even die and it would affect him for the rest of his life then I pretended to get angry over something and to grab him and his sister immitating a rage attack he told me that it was different because he is just a child, then I told him that if he could not learn to control himself now he would remain an angry persone and one day would get in bad trouble, since then he is much more in control, bless him !! I hope it will last and that it is not just something which will fade away when he is older in any case it took me 5years to get some results. I had been alone for 5 years and just last year my partner moved in after we met for over a year.

I had no help and lot of messing about with the LEA and the school no statement no assessment, with the SENDIST dismissing my appeal in June I have knock at so many doors that I am tired to repeat my story over and over again to people who then say well it is very unlikly that you will get more help but you are coping very well.

 

Now H is having a bit more support at school with 2 hours with a teacher assistant in class for literacy 1 hour of mathboard (group of 5) 1 hour with the senco social group and social stories with a bit of OT and hand writting, and twice 30 minutes of playtime social and activity group at lunch time (this every week) and a teacher who seems to know about autism. This may be the reason he is much calmer???

 

I hope things will improve for you please do not despair read some of my recent posts I think the mood is changing overall this week-end is the autism awarness day with some conferences in London and there are more and more tv programme about ASD. <'> <'>

Do take care.

Malika.

[Mother in Need]

Thanks all for your responses and moving stories! :

 

I have meanwhile seen the psychiatrist on an emergency appointment who has put him on respiridone, but it is making him feel pretty poorly, with headaches and nausea. Hopefully this'll soon go away?

He has also been put on the waiting list for an assessment by a psychiatric unit, to see if they can have him for some weeks to assess him and try to help him.

At least some response, lets hope it'll make a difference.

 

Meanwhile his brothers are still scared. Took both AS son and the youngest to the shops yesterday and while using the one and only toilet in the shop the youngest said to me 'mum, when it is your turn, you'll have to take him in with you; you can't leave him alone with me or he'll kill me'

 

School is not too helpful as usual and plainly says 'this is a a mainstream school and not a special one, there is not much we can do'. So why the hell are they against statementing him?

 

My son would dearly love to be home educated, but I can just not cope with having to care for him 24/7, school is the only break I ever get from him and I need it...

[lynyona]

hi mother in need.

 

I too have been in the same situation on the odd occasion but my youngest is the brunt of his brothers anger .He often gets him around the throat and i usually send him out of the room but on the odd occasion he did come through with a kitchen knife but by the time id yelled at him he gone and put it back in the kitchen but it is definately worru as you cannot be there every minute of the day. lynn

[asereht]

I have meanwhile seen the psychiatrist on an emergency appointment

He has also been put on the waiting list for an assessment by a psychiatric unit, to see if they can have him for some weeks to assess him and try to help him.

At least some response, lets hope it'll make a difference.

 

My son would dearly love to be home educated, but I can just not cope with having to care for him 24/7

We too seen the psych for an emergency appointment , he didn't put him on meds as he felt school was the problem ( my son would rather have died than go back in sept). So he advised us to take him out.

 

Yes it is hard not getting a break ( although I do feel guilty about saying this )

 

My son too is on a waiting list like yours.

 

Lets hope we both get some help.

 

It is a help to know someone else is in the same boat. In the dead of night it often feels like your on your own and no-one in the world can help.Then the sun shines in the window and we look forward to a new and better day.

 

Lets hope we have that day soon <'> <'>

Edited September 23, 2005 by asereht

[Malika]

Hi mother in need ,

 

Well I thought a lot about home schooling my son but like you decided that I would not be able to cope, being foreign and even worst French the English curriculum is not quite obvious to me, even if or may be because both my parents were primary teachers in France for 35 years.

 

I think my son gets more support this year because I appeal to the SENDIST in fact at the tribunal we opte for not criticising the school as it would have been "counterproductive" ( well not too sure about this word is it english ???) but it became quite clear that the school was at fault and they probably got more pressure from the LEA. What is your situation with the school ?? Are you in contact with IPSEA they are good but difficult to get in touch with sometimes.

 

Hope things will get better for you.

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

[Mother in Need]

Thanks Malika, Asereht and Lynyona

 

Yes indeed it is good that one is not alone! I do find it apalling though that so many of us have to go through this and there is so little help available.

 

What I find so disgusting also is that some months ago I had child protection coming down on me because I had taken video clips of his behaviour (seemingly against his will) in order to get some help and finally be taken seriously, as they said this was against his human rights

Now he has threatened his brother's life and they just shrug it off

Where is the reasoning in this?

 

School, I have had to go behind their backs to get the statementing process started and am right now finalising my parental representation. School keeps saying all is fine and he is fine. Yeah right, massive meltdown on Friday after school but none since ....*touches wood* *fingers crossed* *praying* Why do I have the feeling that the next one will be Monday after school

 

Counterproductive certainly is an English word (my native language isn't English either) and to be honest I often have the feeling that the so-called 'professionals' and 'experts' are the ones that are counterproductive

[Malika]

Hi mother in Needs

 

There is no logic in all this just the money and the attempt to make us keep our mouth shut or may be if it is ignorance well then it is very scary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Always got the feeling of some kind of conspiracy against the poor or disable may be it is just because everybody is much more interested in getting the last mobile phone or a super car ..... It is call materialism and individualism but for god sake there are plenty good people out there if just they would get more power for decision making....well they probably would get the sack very quickly

 

Hope you will manage with your case do not forget you need plenty papers plenty proof to show complex needs.

 

Take care.

 

Malika

[Destrum]

As the oldest brother of an aspie i really feel for you and your son i hope this does not affect his relationship with his aspie brother.

 

You cannot always prevent things like this happening just take care and hopefully all will be well.

[Mother in Need]

Why do I have the feeling that the next one will be Monday after school

 

I was wrong, it happened on the way to school on Monday morning. He jumped out of the bus at a further stop. Fortunately he walked straight home, but anything could have happened, he could have gone anywhere or with anyone. Especially as the school didn't notify me till nearly two hours later.........

 

I was a little, let's say, upset and rather furious when I reached the school, and refused to leave till someone important took note They are now looking into providing a taxi for him, but only after a lot more of (in words ofcourse!) They still won't admit the problem lies in him not wanting to go to school and in him being stressed out, and are just calling it seperation anxiety

[Malika]

Hi Mother in Need,

 

This is quite scary , there is another point our children are so distractable how can they ever remember every day to get off the bus at the right bus stop.

Well as a matter of fact you have to keep fighting I have been advice last week "unofficialy" by an official worker that I have to make myself a nuisance to the school until they take notice.

Hope you get some results.

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

[KarenM]

Hello , I am having alot of problems with my DDS swearing and violence too. Thank god she hasn't been using knifes though. I also think it has alot to do with the stress off school. So this post is very interesting. Her work is fine though so I can't see them giving her any help . She even spat in my face last night. Punishment just makes her worse. Karen

[Mother in Need]

KarenM, my son's work is fine too, he is even a member of the National Academy of Gifted and Talented Youth, and indeed it doesn't make things any easier. Sometimes I wish he was learning disabled as then he would get so much more help... Sying that, school HAS recognised he needs help but just don't quite understand how much and what kind of help, as they really don't understand autism properly. I have passed them this forum's address twice already, as I think they'd get so mcuh understanding out of it, but they haven't been yet as far as I can tell...