Battling with school

[smiley]

Hi all,

 

I'm after a bit of advice on two things.

 

Firstly, when i picked up Michael today the teacher asked to have a word. She wants me to get Michael to complete a piece of work he didn't do today. It's a piece of work that need to be used towards his SATs. Surely this piece of work needs to be done at school to show a true reflection of his capabilities in the school environment??? This got me to thinking....how much work has he actually completed at school? She obviously needs this done for the SATs. I asked her if i could see other pieces of work he'd done in the three weeks he's been back at school - got a blank look and 'well, it's all packed away now'... I asked how he had been that day. She said not good - i asked i what way, she said 'just wandering around, rocking, not really with us today....' I asked what strategies they'd put in place, she said 'oh, we've tried everythin' then rolled her eyes. Each time i made a suggestion of something to try, she plainly ignored me. I pointed out that the strategies need to be up and running for a couple of weeks before they reduce his anxiety enough to enable him to work - how could they possibly have 'tried everything' in just three weeks. She said 'hmmmmm suppose' and then she turned to talk to another parent. At this point i was either going to wallop her or burst into tears, so i left.

 

Should i be getting Michael to complete this at home. Is this good 'evidence' to prove they are unable to give the right support to him (might help with getting him statemented)?

 

Secondly - the Ed Psyc went to see Michael last week - there was a letter in his bookbag inviting me to a meeting to be held in a few weeks to discuss Michael. With me, Ed Psyc, Headmistress (Miss 'oh, we don't do statementing in this school'), and his teacher. Is there someone i can take who will back me up? I get the feeling i will be railroaded into something. Are there people about who support parents - and stand up for the children???

 

Michael's 6 and has been diagnosed with Aspergers

 

AAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

 

Oh, that's better

[oracle]

Where do you live? There could be a parent support group or Carers Centre in your area. We attened these kinds of meetings with parents all of the time now. Is is an official review? It would be good to find this out. If it's official they may be going to discuss what happens next? Statement or no Statement if you see what I mean.

 

The teacher sounds a wonderful person not. She certainly only sounds interested in herself and not your son. Swift kick up rear end needed I fear

 

Personally I would not complete the work - but that is only my opnion. If she did not have the time to show you his work so far, then I would not have the time to complete this work if you follow my drift.

 

 

<'> Carole

Edited September 23, 2005 by carole

[smiley]

Hiya, i'm in Hampshire.

[Helen]

when i picked up Michael today the teacher asked to have a word. She wants me to get Michael to complete a piece of work he didn't do today. It's a piece of work that need to be used towards his SATs. Surely this piece of work needs to be done at school to show a true reflection of his capabilities in the school environment??? This got me to thinking....how much work has he actually completed at school? She obviously needs this done for the SATs.

I haven't ever heard of children having to do work at home for their SATS, although my son did have to attempt certain tasks for his Key Stage 1 SATs (in school), because the teacher felt my son wasn't capable of achieving satisfactory results.

 

Carole said:

Personally I would not complete the work - but that is only my opnion. If she did not have the time to show you his work so far, then I would not have the time to complete this work if you follow my drift.

I agree with Carole.

[oracle]

I will do some digging for you on our Campaign Group and see if I can come up with anything that may help you?

 

Carole

[helenl53]

Smileymab - where in Hants - do you come under Dorset LEA? - not as daft as it sound folks, some people live in Hampshire and Dorset is their LEA, some people live in Poole and Dorset is their LEA and some live in Dorset and Poole is their LEA

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[smiley]

hiya Helen, i'm in north hants - right on the border of Surrey and Berkshire

 

A friend has suggested Parent Partnership....anyone have experience of them?

 

Im having a look at the SEN sites to see what exactly he's intitled to - go in with the knowledge if i can - 'bout as clear as mud at the moment!

[phasmid]

Contact IPSEA as well as PP.

 

I have to go out but, have a similar tale to tell (but yr 6 sat work).

[helenl53]

Hi - I thought there may have been just a chance you were in the LEA's that I am aware of.

 

Advice from IPSEA is one of the best bits of advice you can take.

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[lisa]

I thought they did the SATS in May?? Perhaps this is only for practice. A lot of schools spend (waste!!) the whole of Year 2 and Year 6 doing SATS paper after SATS paper all to boost the school's performance. We've been in a similar position with my daughter. At our school they do half termly assessments for all children and the school basically "fix" Laura's attainment every term. She has no 1:1 support in school apart from during these tests and they give her extra time. Last term Laura's teacher told me that Laura hadn't actually done the writing assessment, she said she couldn't think and got upset so the teacher gave her the weekend to think about it and said she could do it on Monday. Laura should have scored on what she did on the day, just like all the other children as this is actually how she usually performs in school. Instead we get the force results (which incidentally was still a year behind!) She's only 8 at the moment but when she does her GCSE's, she won't be able to "have a think about it and have another go next week"!!!!

 

It also doesn't help us as we're trying our hardest to get support for her without the school's backing.

 

Hopefully the Ed Psych will back you at this meeting. The fact the teacher is saying that nothing is working and admitting they're having problems helps your case for statementing.

 

Lisa

[phasmid]

Hi Smileybab,

 

She wants me to get Michael to complete a piece of work he didn't do today. It's a piece of work that need to be used towards his SATs. Surely this piece of work needs to be done at school to show a true reflection of his capabilities in the school environment???

 

We had this in yr 6 Phas jr would have achoice of two from three questions to pick. He knew which he wouldn't pick so he refused to do the practice sheet - Why practice something you're not going to do? AS logic! He had to do the practice otherwise the teacher would have other kids using the same excuse to duck work as well. Fair point. (She could also see his logic - but was stuck). So we agreed to get it done at the w/e. Amid lots of tears and tantrums he did do it. Saved face all round, teacher wasn't undermined as the work was done and Phas jr did not get into trouble for his stance. We had a cr*p w/e though

 

This got me to thinking....how much work has he actually completed at school? She obviously needs this done for the SATs. I asked her if i could see other pieces of work he'd done in the three weeks he's been back at school - got a blank look and 'well, it's all packed away now'... I asked how he had been that day. She said not good - i asked i what way, she said 'just wandering around, rocking, not really with us today....' I asked what strategies they'd put in place, she said 'oh, we've tried everythin' then rolled her eyes. Each time i made a suggestion of something to try, she plainly ignored me. I pointed out that the strategies need to be up and running for a couple of weeks before they reduce his anxiety enough to enable him to work - how could they possibly have 'tried everything' in just three weeks. She said 'hmmmmm suppose' and then she turned to talk to another parent. At this point i was either going to wallop her or burst into tears, so i left.

 

Hmm, how ASD aware are they? Strtatergies, as you say, need time to settle in. If they don't work at once it doesn't mean they WON'T work.

 

Should i be getting Michael to complete this at home. Is this good 'evidence' to prove they are unable to give the right support to him (might help with getting him statemented)?

 

I'd say yes to the first as it shows you're willing to work with the school and, possibly yes to the second.

 

Secondly - the Ed Psyc went to see Michael last week - there was a letter in his bookbag inviting me to a meeting to be held in a few weeks to discuss Michael. With me, Ed Psyc, Headmistress (Miss 'oh, we don't do statementing in this school'), and his teacher. Is there someone i can take who will back me up? I get the feeling i will be railroaded into something. Are there people about who support parents - and stand up for the children???

 

Michael's 6 and has been diagnosed with Aspergers

 

Your doing your homework and getting prepared in advance - thats good. There are groups like Parent Partnership that work with you on things like this. Some are better than others though. Therefore a lot does depend on how good your PP is. IPSEA however are better placed and, if they operate in your area will be with you every step of the way. Give both a ring and ask them for assistance. See what they have to offer in the way of support.

 

Good luck. Don't forget if you have things you want to know....ask away.

Edited September 24, 2005 by phasmid

[lil_me]

http://www.has.org.uk/home.asp

 

 

Thats the one I found when searching Hampshire area

[Kazzen161]

No point in trying HAS - they are as much use to us "up North" as a chocolate teapot!

 

I wouldn't trust Hants PP either!

 

I would contact Surrey NAS Branch (www.mugsy.org) - you could join their message board (via the web-site) and put a message asking if anyone could support you - there are several people in the N Hants area who are very good with the ed stuff.

 

Karen

[Kazzen161]

PS I personally would not be inclined to get him to complete the work - as you say, if it is that important, they should allocate someone to help him do it at school. I did try to get R to do any homework, but stuff that should be done in school, should be able to be done in school. I also do not know what she means by putting it towards the SAT's.

[Malika]

Hi,

 

I had this with my son in year 2 the teacher was annoyed with him and worried about the sats and would ask work he had not finish at school to be done at home on the top of his home work I did it twice then talk to the teacher about H problems asking for a letter to give to my gp for refferal and DX. It is then that they put him on the sen list in school action and school action plus after DX begining of year 3. However H teacher in year 2 was very professionnal and as soon she had realised that H was not just being naughty but had a problem she never ask again for a work to be completed at home execept for normal home work.

From my experience more I have done with H as training, exercise or learning , with good result less help I have received as they just see the result at the end, at the SENDIST in June the school even said that the progress made were not all thanks to me even if they admited that H had made little progress in the school environment. I personnaly think that you should refuse to complete the work this his the school duty and an indication that your son needs more help. But please keep a record of all those little incidents (if you need to go to tribunal) and complain to the head if the teacher is not listening. Statmenting seems to have been beried now by instruction of the government asking for the school to provide with no extra funding off course !!! However it seems that the tory now wants to take that on board to criticise the gov well it is all politics but may be there will be some benefit from it ????

 

All the best.

 

Malika

[smiley]

Bit of an upsate for you all -

 

Firstly, thank you sooooo much for all you advice, i would loose my mind without you all

 

I've decided in the end to see if he would complete it - i popped it on the table and said 'could you finish this for school'. M plonked himself down and did just that (he never fails to amaze me!). I didn't help him - and to be honest, i can't make out a word of what he's written, but he was happy to do it.

 

Now comes the sneeky bit - i've put on it 'work completed at home' and photocopied it for my own notes. Im going to have another word with the teacher tommorrow and tell her my concerns. If she doesn't come up with an answer i'm happy with - i'll complain to the govenors.

 

I didn't want M to get into trouble for not finishing it and i want to give them the idea that i want to help.

 

Ive contacted Surrey NAS (think your spot on about north hants karen!), and have a few more contacts for support with the meeting. I'm also going to phone the Ed Psyc to see how his assesment went - last year she was always happy to speek to me - might give me an indication of whats going to be said at the meeting...

 

And Malika - i totally understand your frustration - his teacher has said 'he makes fantastic eye contact - so we don't need to worry about that'. It drives me crazy - i've spent the last 5 or so years reminding him to look at me and re-positioning his face to get to this point. Stopping those little reminders now would be disasterous for him

 

All have one of these <'>

 

Mary xx

[smiley]

Another quick update - just got a call from a lady at Parent Partnerships - she was lovely and is coming with me to the meeting at school I'm so relieved. She will also help with statementing, DLA forms, finding support....... . Have got everything crossed that she will do what she's said.

[phasmid]

That's really good to hear. You may not need her when you get there, sometimes just knowing there is someone who can jump in for you if you dry up makes all the difference.

[smiley]

The meeting was this morning......

 

One little snippet for you....

 

EP to Teacher "How's Michael's social skills coming along"

 

Teacher to EP "It's a social thing is it?"

 

Am too p************ to type

 

And PS; Parent Partnership woman didn't utter a word.....

[nellie]

Mary <'>

 

Was there anything positive from the meeting?

 

And PS; Parent Partnership woman didn't utter a word.....

 

Why am I not surprised!!!!!!

 

You were asking about funding. It's discussed on the following link, although I don't think parents should have to worry about funding at all, that's for the schools and LEA's to worry about, I'm sure parents have enough to think about!!!

 

school action plus, and funding

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...topic=3808ng......

 

Sending you a PM.

 

Nellie xx

[phasmid]

Oh...for crying out loud!!

 

 

Let us know more when your ready.

 

<'>

[annie]

Hi Smileymab,

 

Makes you wonder if the people that matter ever bother communicating with each other.

 

I would give IPSEA a call and ask for their advice/support http://www.ipsea.org.uk/ . Parent Partnership up and down the country are a bit hit and miss as to whether they help you or not.

 

Annie

<'> <'>

[smiley]

The positive thing to come out of the meeting.........that i'm now far more aware of how c**p the teacher is! I suppose that the EP and SALT are now sitting on them and making them help Michael....

 

As i said - the meeting went on for two hours, most of which was spent explaining to the teacher and classroom assistant what Aspergers is and how it affects M.

 

The teacher has absoulutely no understanding of it at all

 

Firstly we were discussing the problems they were having in the classroom with M and what stratigies should be put in place. (Erm.. he's been at action plus since his first term at school (YR!)- would have thought they'd have done this by now) They are having difficulties getting him to join in - be part of the group.....the EP and I both said M probably doesn't feel the need to be part of the group.....Hence the discussion about social skills

 

They were saying there is no logic to when he will join in or not (assembly etc). Some days he does no problem - other days he says he can't. I explained to them (through gritted teeth) that M cannot remember or learn or think back to previous days, therefore they should not assume he can do these things without prompting....

 

The EP suggested visual timetables/home school books. The teacher said 'what a great idea!' - i've been trying to get her to do this since the begginning of term!

 

The teacher went through a day they had last week as an example. The children were doing writing in groups. She told M to do his work - when he didn't she told him to go to the bookcorner to look at a book. After ten minutes of looking at the COVER of the book (thats what she told him to do! - she said he was being deliberatly awkward!) he went back to the teacher and started 'disrupting' the class by dancing in front of the her. She asked M if he wanted to work - he said yes - so she sent him back to his table. He didn't get to the table and began to wander around the classroom and out throught the door. She told him off and sent him to the book corner to stare at some more book covers.............

 

At this point i exploded!!!!!! I asked if she'd made it clear to M what the work was, where he should sit, who could help him if he needed it etc etc etc...... Thankfully the EP was just as stunned and backed me upa ll the way.

 

It went along like this throughout most of the meeting. I seem to be in the c**p area for PP - she sat next to me and didn't utter a word (until it came to stetmenting - then she sided with the head i've found out she used to be one....).

 

Then the statementing bit. They tried the 'he won't get any extra money if he's statemented - it's the same amount as school action plus'. I was ready for this one and went into the ' but, the money he gets from a statement will go to him........and only him'. They didn't have an argument for that one considering M gets NO help at school. But that's where the problems begin.....(feel free to correct me - wouldn't surprise me if they've lied!)......because he has had no help the LEA will probably reject a statement because the school need to have shown they've tried everything and he's still not keeping up. The EP wants them to put her stratigies into place and 'review statementing' around Xmas!! (He's been on School Action Plus since October 03!!!! - haven't tried anything??)

 

I'll try to add bits as i remember them - heads bit jumbled up with it all.

 

Ho hum....off for some of this

[UltraMum]

Parent Partnership woman didn't utter a word.....

It sounds just like our LEA and PP - last time we asked if she could take notes - 5 sentences from an hour long meeting!

[Flora]

Smiley... tis definately a paralell universe! My son has been on SA+ for nearly 2 years, but they've done bog all with it. So now the LEA won't statement until all else fails. I actually feel quite aggresive towards the school for this...., sooo... <'> <'> I share your outrage.

 

Lauren X

[UltraMum]

P.S. - enjoy the

[UltraMum]

P.P.S.

 

We were 2 years on SA+ with J too!

[nellie]

I hope the wine is helping. <'>

 

Did anyone mention IEP's, or whether any progress had been made?

 

Nellie xx

[lisa]

What makes me mad is that the child gets penalized for the school failing to provide the support they're supposed to. The school doesn't bother and then the LEA have a get out. It's like a big conspiracy. That's another year the school get to keep it's precious budget and the LEA don't have to cough up the extra while they go down the let's wait and see what happens route.

 

My daughter was on SA+ for a year before they did anything. What they did do was only because I made a real fuss and made a parental request for statutory assessment so it speeded things up a bit. They refused to assess because she hadn't seen an EP, whose fault was that. I'd been requesting it for a year and all we got from the school was the "there are a lot of kids with greater problems than your child...." speech. She's been on SA+ for 2 years now and has only had one visit from the EP, 2 visits from ASD outreach and 1 SALT visit. It's disgraceful.

 

Lisa

[smiley]

Drives you crazy doesn't it...... I'm just beginning to realise the battle i have on my hands...

 

Nellie - That was something i asked today. The IEP i was given with the bits sent to the EP was actually written last year - it has on it IEP no.1. I asked if i could see the 'other' IEP's as he's been at SA+ for so long. Got lots of confused looks - i think, but not sure, that this is the only one. It hasn't been looked at this term - as far as i could tell - hasn't really been looked at all year. Just something they thought they'd do to cover their collective behinds i think. I asked to be included in the next review of his IEP (due November) - EP agreed with this and has put it on her stratigies notes (i've asked for everyones minutes and took some of my own). EP noticed that the IEP was probably useless to M as none of it relates to him; ie; nothing social, emotional etc.....just about behaviour and bloooooomin' eye-contact!

[fiorelli]

Hi Smiley.

 

Have (finally!) read the whole thread, and your son sounds so much like Louis in the classroom.

 

I really don't have any words of advice, other than to keep on at the head, put as many requests as possible in writing (as well ask asking verbally) , and keep a copy for yourself.

 

Many people have told me that it is the parents that shout loudest and make a nuisense of themselves who get the help, as the people they are shouting at do it to get the parents off their backs. This is proving true for us (at the moment), but fortunately, we are one of the few lucky ones who have a headteacher who cares about the kids, and does all she can for them (she has proved a great help in shouting at the right people, and as such, an application for a statement went off to the LEA that was literally an inch thick - with more reports to follow!)

 

Good luck, and keep shouting!

 

Luv fiorelli xx

[Kazzen161]

Ask the school for a copy of their SEN policy - it should say how often their IEP's will be reviewed. I think the CofP says at least twice a year, but some schools go for once a term. Make sure you get a copy of the completed IEP (ie: with outcomes filled in). I have two IEP's from the Junior school, but have no copies with outcomes filled in (they seem to have disappeared!), so they are useless.

 

Karen

[nellie]

Oh dear, the school don't appear to have a clue. It will be interesting to see if they can produce the IEP's and the outcomes.

 

This is section 5 of the SEN toolkit which gives information on IEP's. If the present IEP is inappropriate for your son, I would ask for a new IEP to be done ASP and put in writing that you wish to be involved in the writing of this IEP.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=4610

 

IEP's

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=230

 

Nellie xx

[Surrey]

Just something I thought I ought to mention - The same thing happened to me and I had to spend a considerable amount of time explaining to the teacher what my AS son's problems were. I very stupidly assumed that when he went up a year his problems would be explained to the new teacher. Needless to say this didnt happen and for several years I had to go in and see each teacher and repeat the whole process. In the end I managed to get my son a place at a special unit and we never looked back.

[Malika]

Hi Smiley,

 

What I have seen for myself is that some people like "Contact a Family" and even more "Parents partnership" get a good part of their funding from council money so if they are too pushy the next budget will be reduced drasticlly and they may be even force to close their office I remember last year the manager from contact a Family being very worried not to be able to continue running full time because the new budget may be trimed so much eventually this did not happen.

As for PP I think they just a branch of the Lea, when I call them last year they took all my data and call the school then call me back saying that the school said that H was coping very well and I would just have to get into line with what ever the school would decide , they did not gave me any appointment did not meet h and did not even read the report from the mental health unit.

Does anyone knows a bit more about this I have often the feeling that PP are hands tied and will push it only when they see that the case is so strong that they cannot escape from it.

At the end things improved slightly because I appealed to the SENDIST (for assesment only) even if the case was dismissed.

 

Iep should not only give ideally 3 targets at the time with review every 3 months but if the targets are not met they should be broken into smaller targets in order for the child to be able to meet them. What often happen is that target are not met and just droped which should not happened or if this is happening it should be carefully recorded to understand what is going wrong but most of the time they are just brushed under the carpet by any mean it is very important to record all this as if you go to the Sendist it could be a winning point to show that SEN measure have failed.

I really hope things will get better for you

 

In the mean time you have to keep educating the educational staff....!!!!

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

[phasmid]

PP service is entirely funded by LEAs. They either run it in house OR contract it out - it is a legal obligation that they have such a service. Some are better than others - (Read that as some will kick backsides and others get kicked). IPSEA are better in that resppect as they are independent.

 

This school needs educating!

 

DfES website and obtain copies of: Autistic Spectrum Disorders, good practice guidance. Give them a copy or two! Call it a heavy hint. It explains clearly what they should be doing - and how!

 

You're right Smiley, your going to have a fight on your hands but you come with back-up...US!

[smiley]

~Why does it not surprise me to find out PP is funded by LEA!!!!!

 

Right................. This morning..........

 

Teacher legged it as soon as she spotted me - became VERY busy sorting out bits of paper . The Head was hovering in the corner of the classroom and the LSA was stood, camera in hand, ready to take pictures for visual timetable.....

 

In stomp I, trying not to giggle (I know, i know, it's not funny - but, you should have seen their faces!!). And my darling boy, true to form, anounced to me - (and everyone in my village by the volume of his voice ) that he needed a poo, right now.......and mummy, you have to come with me.

 

Left them stood there for a good ten minutes (M sings whilst on the loo - so we had a good sing-song, transformer style ) and then came back into the room. No-one had moved. I handed a HUGE envelope to the LSA with 1) good old oasis pack explaining Aspergers..... 2) A 20 pont inclusion guide for teachers of Asperger children and... 3) Autistic Spectrum Disorders - A guide to classroom practise. Smiled sweetly and said 'thought i'd bring these in for you to take a look at - might be helpfull'. Then found teacher....told her i'd handed the pack to LSA - as they clearly don't talk to each other - and told the Head she'd get her copies when i collect M. (Thank gawd i get paper and ink free from my big bruv) Gave my gorgeous boy a hug and kiss and went on my merry way!

 

And your right phasmid, i did feel as though you lot were stood behind me <'>

[phasmid]

Fantastic! I wish I could have seen their faces!

 

I think they'll get the message.

[UltraMum]

wish I could have been there!

[Malika]

Very good move It must have been a funny moment...We need that sometimes

 

Take care do not forget to keep a record of wht is going on.

 

Malika.