Asperger's and mainstream inclusion

[julieann]

Hi,

In my area I don't know of any Asperger's children who have successfully stayed in mainstream secondary school after year 8.

They manage to cope with year 7 with support but when the schoolwork/homework workload starts to increase they can't cope and end up being taken out of mainstream and home educated. Any comments welcome.

Edited November 24, 2005 by julieann

[Tez]

Hi Julieann,

 

Some children with AS are successfully educated in mainstream Secondary schools beyond year 8 but it does take alot of work and understanding on the part of the school and good liaison with the parents. There are some parents of such children on these boards, I belive phasmid is one of them.

[Minxygal]

To be totally honest J had a terrible time in year 7 as they had no clue as to his needs and how to help him. He's in year 9 now and it's took an awful lot of hard work. It started off quite hostile but now we work with the school and try to get in and help J before things start to go drastically wrong. It's not ideal and it's not perfect, I'm sure it never will be, but now they know that we just want the best for J and now that they are prepared to work with us, instead of against us, he's actually doing ok.

Homework was one we struggled with, but we got around it by J going to homework club straight after school. There he can do his homework on the computers and also gets 5- 10 mins surfing time too which he likes. That way although it's homework we don't have the school/home issue to contend with and he gets it done. (This also gives us more time to pick up his brother from his special school on the other side of the city)

 

One thing that we constantly stress to the school is that J's self esteem is really important. I make a point of whenever he says he's done a test or something, of asking him if he tried his best and letting him know that his best will always be good enough.+

[phasmid]

I am. I suggest you get talking to the school as soon as possible. It is important that they know you will work with them. We got to know all the important staff ahead of transfer from yrs 8 to 9 (we have a 3 tier system in my part of the world), and they got to know us.

 

Is your child changing schools at this time? If so let me know and I'll pm you the advice sheet I have put together. It goes into some detail about some of the ways we handled this. It worked for us.

 

It is possible to do this. Phas Jr is taking his GCSE this year and is expected to get high grades (B's and above) in all of them - he'll put my results to shame!

[Kathryn]

In year 8 my daughter seemed relatively settled and stable: it was towards the end of year 9 that things began to fall apart. On reflection, I think this was due to various factors: change of teachers and class groupings after 2 years of continuity, increase in academic pressure, having to make option choices, increasing focus on the future and career choices, variations in the normal school routine, like work experience.

 

She managed to limp along to the end of year 10 before her breakdown. Possibly an extreme case, as she had no diagnosis and no support for most of this time.

[julieann]

Hi Phasmid,

Thank-you for your offer of help with my son. Unfortunately he was not able to cope in mainstream school and has been home educated since June 2003.he will be 16 on Monday and we were advised by the LEA in 2003 never to try to put him back into mainstream school or to follow a school curriculum as he has been too traumatised by his experiences.

I was asking my question as I am a LSA for two year 7 girls with AS. One of which is coping extremely well. The other girl who has difficulties with any kind of accurate drawings due to quite severe dyspraxia will not let me help her at all. I don't know if her problem is due to vision or fine motor skills. She keeps saying I can do it. We have explained to her that she can do it but not accurately enough and that in an exam all diagrams and charts will be drawn for her ,which quite frankly doesn't mean a thing to her, but she still wants to do it herself and then becomes very distressed when it doesn't look like everyone elses in the class and starts to flap with her hands. She has only been given 10 hours resources a week. The school have made them up to 20 hrs and she has 5 sixth form lunchtime buddies a week but even this is not enough.Instead of going to lessons she puts her face on any window that has music coming from it usually in the PE department.In technology she hangs out of the window or heads for the door because she can smell food in the cookery department two doors down.She spends the Art lessons saying she hates Art and

when is lunchtime. She is refusing to have any kind of help in English because she says she is good at it and doesn't need my help although her statement says she does.If you explain that this isn't what you do she just looks at you and gives one of her beaming smiles. She is really cute but cute doesn't get you through exams which seems to be the schools main aim in life. I hope she does stay at the school but at this rate I can't see her getting to year 8.

[Tez]

Julieann,

 

I am currently going through the motions of finalising my son's statement which I hope will eventually specify home tuition provided by the LEA. I did consider deregistering him and tutoring him myself but I think he will respond better to outside tutors, something I have not got the resources to pay for.

 

I have expert advice from the EP, OT and Psychiatrist which I believe backs my case and the school have confirmed that they are unable to meet A's needs. I think LEAs are going to have to start thinking creatively about how they provide a suitable education for our children. Quite frankly, I think it is a cop out on the part of the LEA to advise you to never put your son back into mainstream education or follow a school curriculum without offering you something else. It is their responsibility to provide our children with a suitable education and there are many ways that they can legally provide it. I hope their advice came with an apology and financial settlement for the damages they admit to causing your son.

 

Of course it is ok for you to home-ed your child, I may well do it myself if all else fails but I object to LEAs opting out of their responsibilities in this manner. If you speak to Annie you will find out that she fought long and hard for her son to have education otherwise than at school and he is thriving on it.

 

Sorry, having an emotional day....I'll stop my rant.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Tez

[Canopus]

Is the problem to do with there being too much homework, or is the homework too difficult? In Y7 and Y8 I found the homework to be stupidly trivial and often couldn't be bothered to do it. In Y9 there was too much homework and some was too trivial. In Y10 and Y11 the homework was more challenging and I was inclined to do it because it counted towards my GCSEs.

 

GCSE options are more limited today than in the past and kids often end up doing 10 GCSEs. Is this too many for kids with AS and would they prefer to drop some periphery subjects if they could?

 

I can understand a big transition between primary school and secondary school. What exactly is the issue with Y8?

[julieann]

Hi Tez,

No apology and no financial settlement. In fact because I took my son out of school after a suicide attempt in June 2003 I was told that as I had chosen to home educate him I was not to expect any financial help with his education both then or in the future.

[julieann]

Hi Canopus,

The issue with year 8 is that the school ignore inappropriate behaviour in year 7 because of the big transition to secondary school and then expect the pupils to behave more appropriately in year 8 and lunchtime and after school detentions are set in place for late handing in of homework, missing homework, lateness to lessons, inappropriate behaviour etc. which was ok at the end of year 7 but is not ok at the start of year 8.Suddenly having to sit at a desk and do schoolwork at lunchtime messes up the lunchtime routine and as AS pupils often don't understand what they have done wrong in the first place this becomes a very confusing time for them and many can't cope.Our pupils have to take 12 GCSE's with French,Italian,Spanish,German being compulsory and additional Japanese and Russian as options.

Re: The homework issue some pupils with Asperger's will only do schoolwork at school and believe that home is the place to relax and recharge their batteries for the next school day.

Edited November 24, 2005 by julieann

[annie]

Hi Julieann,

 

I'm Annie that Tez posted about . As Tez has said we fought long and hard to get Alex the education package that he has now. It sounds like our son's could be the same person ie not coping, suicide attempt.

 

We were going to take Alex off the school role until we found out that the LEA would have no legal obligation to educate him it we did. Do you have in writing from the LEA that they have advised you not put your son into mainstream?

 

I would contact http://www.ipsea.org.uk/ about the situation with your son. IPSEA are brilliant, they REALLY know their stuff. If you can't get through, please keep trying. It was the best thing we ever did, involving them.

 

Just a thought, I don't know if you have any contact with Parent Partnership, but they can refer your son for Education Other Than At School.

 

Just let me know if you need any help.

 

Annie

<'>

[bid]

Well, my son made a very good transition to secondary school, and Years 7 and 8 went well. But his anxiety levels started to rocket at the end of Year 8 and through Year 9. A term and a half into Year 10 he had a breakdown and came out of mainstream school.

 

He was at home for 6 months, before starting at a residential special school for AS. We are very lucky in that he has never looked back...he is now 16, and only took two GCSEs this summer (getting a B and a C). He's taking 4 more this summer, as well as completing a GNVQ in ICT.

 

He has a place at a residential special FE college for AS for next September...just got to get the funding now!

 

I'm biased, I know, and we've been incredibably lucky...but I don't think education should be about 'coping' in school, our children deserve to so much more...

 

Bid

[julieann]

Hi Annie,

Verbally we were told by Education Advisor xxxxxxx that she was going to recommend in her report that S is not educated in school and also he does not follow the curriculum as he is highly intelligent and his learning stratergies aren't suited to the inflexibility of mainstream teaching.He had slipped through the system because his learning and behavioural difficulties were not caused by his ASD but as a result of narrow mindedness within mainstream teaching system. In her opinion S hadn't received the education he was entitled to by law and had been treated abysmally by the system. She recommended I contacted Director Education - councillor- media.

 

The report we actually received stated background information provided by parents: None of which is our own wording.

S was deregistered in June 2003. He experienced learning difficulties and these were inadequately catered for at school. this caused S to feel disenchanted with the school system. he found it too stressful to attend school and lost all confidence in the process. according to his parents S became traumatised by his experiences and he distrusts most adults. His parents were under the impression that S had a statement of Educational needs. It became apparent that the SEN department had never heard of their son.The best option for S was to educate him at home in order to restore his distressed condition and his confidence. His parents have researched into home education opportunities and have devoted their energies to supporting S. S's SATs results were as follows - Science level 5, English level 4, Maths level 3.

 

The SAT's results suprised us as S had never completed any tests despite being sat at a desk with the papers for three days.

 

The report then lost the plot completely and started calling me Paul's mother and talking about Paul's reading age and spelling.Then in the same paragraph it called him S again

 

We never heard from this lady again and when I inquired about her I was told she had taken a post in another area.

Edited November 24, 2005 by julieann

[barefoot wend]

Kerre left school at the end of Year 8. He was at a high-achieving grammar school - huge expectations placed on children to do 11 GCSEs.

 

I think that transferring from a small primary where he was well supported and respected by both staff and pupils to a large school where pressure was high and independence was the keyword was just all too much.

 

As a parent it is also very hard to build up a good relationship with 12 subject teachers (all with hugely different views on what 'the problem' is) rather than just one.

 

Plus, there is that dreaded word 'puberty' to add to the mix - and boy did teachers use it a lot.

 

At the end of the day, there has to be a large dollop of willingness on the part of the school and, unfortunately, that is not always forthcoming.

 

Barefoot

 

P.S. I could be talking complete rubbish - in which case I'm hope Kerre will be along later to correct me.

[Zemanski]

Com had a good Y7, a lot better than we expected. He had a very good LSA and was on a full time mainstream, top set, timetable with an additional half hour social communication at lunch time.

 

We did express worries about whether this would be too much for him and we were also concerned that the school did not have high enough expectations of him academically while at the same time they seemed to expect him to conform totally.

 

In Y8, because he had been doing well, the senco, with her great understanding of AS decided to withdraw about a third of his support without telling us(his statement is full time plus lunch and break cover). At the same time he lost his brilliant LSA who was not replaced and by the end of the term he had around 7 or 8 LSAs a week. Given that he is faceblind this alone caused a huge amount of anxiety as he never knew who would be with him.

Com entered a spiral of anxiety which was out of control by the spring term, he changed from an exemplary student to a screaming ball of fury. He was suicidal, his health suffered and we were on the verge of taking him out of school.

The school refused point blank to make any adaptations, especially to the application of the behaviour policy for Com, and we have that in writing, so we finally got hold of the advisor for ASDs (who was working in the school and is absolutely fantastic but had never been consulted about Com's difficulties ) and made a few threats about discrimination and bullying and mentioned solicitors.

We complained to the governors and they investigated Com's time at the school.

 

The upshot was that the school backed down and entered proper negotiations

 

When Com entered Y9 he had:

 

cognitive behaviour therapy, social communication as part of his timetable, individualised PE/OT, individualised Maths (at a higher level), life skills, study skills,(time out for catching up, relaxing with his LSA, doing homework, etc) no more than 3 LSAs with one main one taking the bulk of the timetable, behaviour to be managed by his trained LSAs rather than through the behaviour policy, (no more of the dreaded detentions) and all staff working with him plus all the senior management team have now had ASD training.

 

The change has been dramatic, Com is so much more relaxed and his behaviour, both at home and at school, has almost returned to normal in just 2 months. His attainment is rising after falling below Y7 levels last year and there are aspects of school he now looks forward to (not many but it's a start).

 

We've just had his annual review and asked for all this to be added into his statement so that it reflects his needs and provision properly. I rewrote part 3b and turned it from half a side to 3 sides.

 

they didn't quibble, in fact the EP insisted we also amend part 3a.

 

we're just waiting for the LEA to ratify it - if they don't we will go to the chief executive and put in a formal complaint because the responsible officer has acted extremely irresponsibly throughout this; that should get them moving

 

We are really hoping this is going to work out for Com but it has taken a year of extreme stress and bitter battles - if they fail Com again he will not be staying in the school.

 

Zemanski

[mikesmum]

My son has just entered yr 7. His dx (dated July 2005) says that high functioning autism is the best fit. The school received a letter from the paediatrician asking them to deal with him as if HF-ASD.

 

They did nothing at all for the first half term. They didn't even follow the advice in the occupational therapist's report regarding his difficulty with writing eg provision of laptop or similar. I found a pen in a catalogue which he seems to like and that's it!!

 

Long story short, after two meetings with us, they are refusing to accept the paediatrician's 'meandering' letter to them. They want a firm and proper diagnosis, otherwise eg they will not and cannot allow him to see the Autism Outreach officer. And they are most certainly determined not to listen to our descriptions of his inner life and outer needs. They keep saying 'where's the evidence'. And then refuse to accept our input.

 

As far as I know, I can contact the autism outreach officer and invite her in so it's a load of old tosh.

 

But I don't know what to do first/for the best.

 

The SENCO was in a complete paddy!!! And the Head joined in!!! And this is a school which talks about learning by caring!!! I felt like telling them I wouldn't allow my son to act out in this way - and then I got tongue-tied because I was worried they'd tell me I was a terrible parent for being too strict with him!!!

 

She also told me I had no right to be in the meeting when they discussed the IEP with my son - even tho I had put in writing that I wished to be there - she told me that she did it when she had time and it was done already!! And then we found out later that she hadn't after all.

 

I find it impossible to believe that adults, professionals can be playing power games like this.

 

I feel physically sick every time I think of the meeting - I've never been treated with such contempt in my life!!! And I've clearly got it so very wrong. Let my son down. Failed him and failed everyone. How do I repair things?

[annie]

Hi Mikesmum,

 

Reading you post has made me angry . The school are disregarding ALL advice being given to them.

 

I would give http://www.ipsea.org.uk/ a call. They are busy, so if you can't get through, keep trying, they are worth their weight in gold.

 

The 2 pieces below are taken from the SEN Code of Practice. I think you need to start quoting them to the school. As you can see from many posts on here, schools will try to tell parents anything, until they realise that we aware of what they SHOULD be doing.

 

Also, if your son hasn't got a statement, you can get the ball rolling yourself. On the IPSEA website it gives you a model letter on how ask the LEA for an assessment of his special needs.

 

We're always here if you need any help, just let us know.

 

Hope this helps,

Annie

<'>

 

6.7 Working with other providers of support

 

Many children and young people with special educational needs have a range of difficulties and the achievement of educational objectives is likely to be delayed without partnership between all concerned. Thus support for pupils with special needs requires a concerted approach from healthcare professionals, social services departments (SSD), specialist LEA support services and other providers of support services including the Connexions Service. All these services should aim to provide an integrated service for the child so that parents and pupil perceive the provision as 'seamless.' The network of practitioners should ensure that all the services working with the child are kept fully informed about the action taken in support of the pupil. The Children Act 1989 and the Education Act 1996 place duties on schools, LEAs, the health services and the social services departments of local authorities to help each other. Further guidance on other agencies is set out in Chapter Ten.

 

 

 

6.14 Individual Education Plans

 

Strategies employed to enable the pupil to progress should be recorded within an Individual Education Plan (IEP). Further advice on IEPs and Group Education Plans can be found in the DfEE SEN Good Practice Guide. The IEP should include information about:

 

the short-term targets set for the pupil

the teaching strategies to be used

the provision to be put in place

when the plan is to be reviewed

the outcome of the action taken

The IEP should only record that which is additional to or different from the differentiated curriculum provision, which is in place as part of provision for all pupils. The IEP should be crisply written and focus on three or four individual targets, chosen from those relating to the key areas of communication, literacy, numeracy, and behaviour and social skills to match the pupil's needs. Strategies may be cross-curricular or may sometimes be subject specific. The IEP should be discussed with the pupil and the parents.

 

Where a pupil with identified SEN is at serious risk of disaffection or exclusion the IEP should reflect appropriate strategies to meet their needs(31). A Pastoral Support Plan should not be used to replace the graduated response to special educational needs.

 

6.15 Reviewing IEPs

 

The IEP should be reviewed at least twice a year. Ideally it should be reviewed

 

termly, or more frequently for pupils with particular needs. At least one review a year could coincide with a routine Parents' Evening, although schools should recognise that some parents might prefer a more private meeting. Reviews need not be unduly formal, but parents' views on their child's progress should be sought and they should be consulted as part of the review process. The pupil should also take part in the review process and be involved in setting the targets.

[LKS]

Mikesmum like annie your post made me really angry What the senco and head are doing is bullying you and I have been on the end of this treatment quite a lot recently My son has also just started yr.7 and he is statemented. The senco has been really good but I can't say the same about some of the other teachers.Annie has given some good advice and others will be along to help I'm sure Phasmid once advised me never to go into meetings unaccompanied. This is really important even if it is someone who know nothing about education, have them sit there and just take notes. Schools can play a very nasty emotional game with parents, they know how difficult it can be for us to speak in meetings, some of us will never have done anything like this ever before. Isn't it "comforting" to hear a story like yours which just proves why parents will continually have to fight to try and get their child statemented because otherwise you get zilch

[curra]

My son made a bad transition to secondary school because the school ignored the recommendations given by the year 6 teacher and the EP. As a result, he had a terrible time in year 7, suffered depression and frequently talked of ending his life. I asked for a SA and was refused on the grounds of not presenting enough evidence. The school agreed to an IEP which helped him a bit. Now he's in year 8. The school withdrew the support and my son began to have problems again, but at the same time they are requesting a SA with their own evidence added to mine. I hope that my son can continue in mainstream, but he will need specific support all the time. He stresses easily with homework and bullying issues. Without the stamenet there are still teachers who prefer to ignore that he has Asperger's and write poor effort grades and negative comments in red all over his books. They don't realize that my son loses self confidence and will work even worse with these type of assessments which are not formative in his case.

[mikesmum]

Hello - Just wanted to pop by at this stage to say thank you for the moral support and for the info. I'm still 'processing' what went on and trying to reach a place where I'm not just reacting to stuff. Two weeks it's taken me - phew!! So thank you Annie, LKS and curra - I really have appreciated your comments.

 

I'm going in tomorrow for the meeting she's having with my son to discuss the IEP. I don't think he's had any warning. I feel that if I prepare the groundwork so he feels safe to function well, it will just give her more ammunition to say 'where's the problem?'. But if I don't I'm being an irresponsible mother. I'm choosing the former and hating myself but it's HER meeting so I'll leave her to choose how to organise it.

 

I'm beginning to realise just how much I constantly create an environment around my son which will 'enable' him - but I couldn't put into words what I do, why I do it or what would happen if I didn't. I don't push him to do things, but I try and create a space in front of him that he can walk into and I make sure there's always a titbit that I know he'll find attractive and familiar in some way. It's difficult to explain that he'd just 'disappear inside himself'/switch off if I didn't and, anyway, I reckon I'm probably treading a fine line between supporting his development and being too much of a control freak!! ;-) Do you have similar experiences?

 

curra - my son has twice talked about ending his life - once when he was 5 and then again when he was 9. Both times as a result of what was going on at school. Different schools because we moved house...

 

Yes, LKS, I've realised I must have someone in tow at every meeting - Having said that, I'm going in alone tomorrow but under strict instructions (from myself!) not to respond to anything that's said to me. I'm there in an observer role and that's it - but I practically had a panic attack this afternoon!!

 

Thanks Annie - I hadn't heard of a Pastoral Support Plan before and I note the difference between that and the purpose of the IEP.

 

I've got the impression that the SENCO feels that if my son doesn't have a 'behaviour' problem then he's of no concern. If he's 'getting along' educationally and producing homework then he's of no concern. They are happy for him to be 'average' - but that's not helping him make the most of what he's got. If he 'gets by' doing homework in 3 minutes then that's fine by them - but I want him to be attracted to learning for its own sake, not just 'this is what they've asked for and I'm doing the minimum to meet what they want purely in order to avoid getting into trouble so I don't end up crying and being called a cry baby (even if what they ask for makes no sense and I don't know why i'm doing it)'.

 

But I'm not sure what you can put on an IEP to help avoid that!!!

 

Thanks again!!! <'> A lifebelt in exceedingly choppy waters.

[LKS]

good luck today mikesmum. I do exactly the same with my children I try to create an enviroment in which they can suceed. This does get harder as they get older. How many of us dread going in to school to discuss our children with the teachers or sencos. These are the very people that are there to support our children (supposedly). We should all be working together to provide what's best for our children. Hang on a minute I'll just put my rose tinted glasses away and enter the real world again.

[lindy-lou]

my AS nephew is in year 9,he spent most of year 7 & 8 on a part time timetable and is now full time through his own choice,my sister has had to battle relentlessly to make the school aware of AS and its implications and they now have a good understanding and really look after dan,if hes having a bad day hes allowed to come home early and they dont really worry if he decides not to go at all,like i have said in another post,we think that schooling is more about dans social progress than any academic achievment,and he has held his own against the bullys and even though he doesnt have an easy time,theyve come to realise that hes not an easy target as he will fight back and theyve seen his meltdowns so tend to leave him alone,he's made some pals and seems happier than he's ever been at school thankfully.

[littlenemo]

DO get the autism team and EP involved - our advisor is great, and the EP is an ASC specialist and without them Com would not be in school

 

because of them he is now stable, he is recovering, and the whole mindset of the school has changed - they've all had 2 days training from the advisor and the EP after which teachers with whom we'd had huge problems were heard to mutter things like ' why weren't we given this information before' and now they come to me with their problems instead of slapping detentions on him.

I can hardly express how different the approach is now. When I express concern - they act on it, when something new is coming up they ask me how best to help him, when he doesn't cooperate they ask me to explain before deciding to punish (and he has had no punishments for a whole term!), they even notice when he does something that's hard for him when other kids do it naturally.

 

yuo really should take someone, even if it's only your next door neighbour, to every meeting - if only as witness to their behaviour and moral support

 

stay strong

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

Zemanski