We try to explain but it's just not working

[DaisyProudfoot]

AAAAARGH..........We do try to explain but it's just not working

 

We've tried advice from docs, psychiatrists, psychologists, books even! But we just can't get through to him.

 

Why oh why oh why does Martin (AS 9 yr old) not seem to understand when he should leave the toddler alone!

 

The baby can be screaming blue murder at him that he doesn't want to be played with, wants to be put down not carried or whatever ......... and it just doesn't seem to get into Martin's skull

 

Yesterday for instance they were playing on the top bunk (they can play well together don't get me wrong) when the baby decided he wanted to get down and Martin wouldn't let him. Just refused to let him go because Martin wanted to continue the game. Naturally liitle one started yelling and this made things worse.

 

So we tried again:

 

Us: "He's not happy Martin can't you see that?"

M: "No"

Us: "But you must be able to, he's crying."

M: "So"

Us: "So people who cry are not happy and want something to stop, he wants to get down."

M: "How do you know he wants to get down?"

Us: (OK - losing it now) "Because it's OBVIOUS!!! - why can't you just LEARN that!" (wrong word!)

M: "Why do I have to learn? I don't want to go back to school to learn that."

 

Oh, surely someone knows where I'm coming from We go round in circles and come back to square one everytime. What are we doing wrong here?

 

Daisy

[Brook]

Daisy, <'> <'>

 

I know where you are coming from.

 

He is obviously finding it difficult to read the signs, I have often said to my son that people cry when they are upset, but then I realised that people also cry when they are happy, laughing, physically hurt etc etc...

 

I think it's a case of, if it's not actually being said, then the cues are not recognised.

I'm sorry Iv'e not much advice, maybe you could explain to him about 'why' little one cries and the clues to look for, but I would say to do this at a time when there is quiet and calm (if poss!) as opposed to when little one is crying and everyone is getting wound up.

 

Sorry for not helping, but wanted to reply to your post, as I do understand what you mean. <'> <'>

 

Brook

Edited December 8, 2005 by Brook

[DAS999]

If he cannot understand why, in the short term while you work on why would your son be able to learn a ruel like "when the baby cry's you need to get mummy/daddy/someone"? Just an idea, sorry if its a rubbish one. Dont have much "kiddie" knowledge

[Flora]

Daisy, <'> <'> I do know where you're coming from.

 

As far as our kids are concerned the world revolves around their wants; the problems arise when we try to show them that it doesn't!!!

 

But show them we must. To protect them, us, our family and the sanity of all those involved.

 

It is so hard though isn't it? Trying to protect your toddler whilst trying to preserve the relationship between Martin and the toddler must be a juggling act in itself. While all along you're having to try to teach your son that while his intentions are good, they are at times misplaced. I think it's one of the hardest things our kids have to learn. I'm trying to teach the same thing to my 8 yo regarding the dog. He just doesn't know when to stop, and the more I ask him to stop the more he does it.

 

It sounds like you're doing a great job and doing your best. Maybe some sort of activity chart incorperating playing with the toddler with pictures and written tips on what to do. ie, picture of toddler crying with instructions on how Martin should stop the activity and let the toddler walk away. Followed then by a reward for Martin doing the right thing. Sounds a bit simplistic but it could be worth a try.

 

Lauren <'>

[oracle]

I often think that our kids have a switch that once tripped is very difficult to switch off. We have this problem with Matthew aged 8 only we do not have any toddlers. Matthew was being minded by my eldest son the other evening while his Dad and I went to a meeting. He and eldest have a game that Matthew loves called 'tickly tummy' Rob tickles Matthew and Matthew begins tickling Rob - only he then promotes himself to jump on Rob, kick Rob - well I am sure that you get the picture.

 

On Tuesday evening he also decided to knee Rob in the stomach even though Rob had told him several times that the game was no longer fun and he wanted to end it. It ended when Rob vomited all over the place after Matthew knee'd him in the stomach. Rob says that Matthew was totally and began to cry. Now Rob fully realises that Matthew just got carried away and never lost his cool once (although I think I would of) but that just brought it home to me how, even if Matthew does not understand or like being told to stop, he has to do it.

 

I am a bit of a tyrant I fear as I will not enter into explinations when I say stop it I mean stop it. It's took some time and still does not occassion but it is getting easier. I decided to do this when I came to the conclusion that Matthew does have a trip switch. Once it's tripped meaningful conversation has gone.

 

Carole

[rainbow queen]

my son is same he harrass/hurt/miver and bother my 3 year old into a fight/row/screaming match

dont matter how many times i explain he will still keep on

it makes me really bad tempered because you can not do anything else that needs doing all because of this going on

 

ive got a stool in the hallway now[saw it on tv] call it naughty chair and i bought an egg timer

so who when he starts it up i make him sit on it for 5 mins[sure he complains but i persist]

when timer goes off he has to say sorry to his brother

may sound a bit harsh but i had to do something it was driving me up the wall

it works-if you keep at it

because my son hates not being in the involved place so he really dislikes being in the hall way where he cant see everything

[reuby2]

We have problems in this area.As "j" doesn't have any brothers or sisters it is hubby (and me) that get the hitting kicking etc, he thinks he is playing but will not stop and then when hubby gets headbutted, bit etc I rush to the rescue with "he didn't mean it" because I can see that my hubby is ready to blow. I think really this is causing problems in our own relationship, I am protective but my son genuinely doesn't realise (or sometimes he does and finds it funny! ).You can tell him something over and over again and he just doesn't stop, then if he does get shouted at he looks all suprised and says he didn't realise.

[neda]

I have the same problems, have 2 girls 6 + 8, and boy who is nearly 4 who is currently being assessed. He has no empathy, I heard my 6 year old screaming blue murder when I was in loo, rushed out to find my boy had her by ponytail, pulling her hair, she was crying so hard trying to stop him and he was laughing at her.

 

Another time my 8 year old fell down stairs and really hurt her coxycc at bottom of back, she was winded and couldn't breath. I went to calm her down and he came and laughed at her and told her she was a silly billy and proceeded to try to kick her while she was in this state.

 

He lashes out at both of them, they try to take it but eventually hit back and then I have to tell them not to do it, but to speak to me and I will deal with it. I then get that I love him more than them, tried explaining to them but it is hard for them.

 

Have tried naughty stair, going to room etc.. if left on naughty stair he bangs head off wall or floor, if sent to room he physically wrecks it, if I don't remove him from situation he would just continue to hit them, but I get it when I remove him. Sometimes it seems like I would give anything not to be there listening to it all. Hubby smacked him on one occasion as he had really hurt his sister by jumping on her back, but I put my foot down and said no, even though he is violent and shouldn't hurt his sisters I've explained to hubby that he can't treat him differently to the girls and he doesn't smack them, but I think emotionally he just found it so hard to see that her wee brother could do that to her. Trying to get him to read some info and talk constantly about things I've heard and read and he is now coming round because psychologist and nursery are now involved and he is getting extra support from additional needs teachers.

 

It is just so difficult sometimes. I also knew something was amiss when my mum told me that his behaviour wasn't right. Coming from a women who believes nurturing fixes all problems this really was a confirmation that I ws doing the right thing by asking for something to be done about situation.

[OPooh]

I have the same problem. DS is 9 in a few weeks and the little un is just 2. We find not leaving them alone is the only time (apart from when asleep) that they can be left.

 

He doesn't understand that his younger brother doesn't understand the same way as him either.

 

Let us know if you find anything that works.

[ceecee]

Neda

 

I don't agree with you mum.I don't believe nuturing cures all problems.Some things cannot be fixed in this way.

[neda]

Totally with you Ceecee, that is what I was saying, this was my mum's opinion about loads of things, until she started helping me to look after wee boy when I was at university, (she is in her 60s so is from the old school so to speak). My nephew had very similar behavioural problems but she was convinced there was nothing wrong with him, even though he was attending psychologists/psychiatrists and counselling. He is 16 now and has never had a diagnosis because he was apparently too intelligent and knew how to manipulate the situation?????.

 

My mum now realises that she was wrong about her thoughts and that my boy's problems won't be cured or go away. That is why I was saying it was a total shock to me when she said something wasn't right. She is right up there asking nursery how he has been that day, if there has been meltdown, if so why etc... it has been a total turnaround on her part, so much so, that she has said she sees these behavioural problems with another nephew and asked me if there was a genetic link. My younger brother who is 28 also had problems like this and was also diagnosed dyslexic, although at the time it wasn't spoken about. Thankfully, I found this site and have come on here and asked advice about assessments etc... the support on this forum is great and will help me to help my wee fella.

[Elanor]

Hi daisy

 

You're not doing aything wrong - your son has AS, that's all the explanation you need.

 

It's hard, but my advice, based on my experience of my son having a toddler sister when he was 9, is that basically you can't leave them alone together. It's different now that he's nearly 12, he's more mature and has gained some understanding of other people's feelings, but he was not reliable with his sister when he was younger.

[poppy]

I totally agree-its not a question of what you are doing wrong.Its just the way our children are.Love them best in all the world.but ohhhhhhhh.

[DaisyProudfoot]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for all your replies and advice. I know we'll get there in the end. To coin the old phrase "If growing up were easy it wouldn't take so long."

 

I'll keep you posted if we have any breakthroughs.

 

Daisy

[Guest hallyscomet]

I am a bit of a tyrant I fear as I will not enter into explinations when I say stop it I mean stop it. It's took some time and still does not occassion but it is getting easier. I decided to do this when I came to the conclusion that Matthew does have a trip switch. Once it's tripped meaningful conversation has gone

 

I have to agree with Carole, no reasoning with stop this, I had to say out Loud and clear NO make eye contact, when my son was 14 & 15 he had this habit of tackling my daughter who was then 11 or 12, she would be in tears. many an incident as you described, a loud NO IS THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THEM.

 

Hang in there, you may feel like this but it works.

 

I was watching a parenting program for single parents that showed a mum had to make her voice loud like a male to get their ASD child to stop and listen. They totally approved of this method, boy it works.

 

LOL I was also watching a program on how to get a dog to stop barking that barked constantly, and they recommended a deep gravel voice NOOOO. it worked, so there you are, NOOOOO practice that deep male side of you

 

All the best

 

Hailey

Edited December 14, 2005 by hallyscomet

[reuby2]

Gosh i've just tried that on my dog and it worked instantly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fab!!

[DaisyProudfoot]

But hubby HAS a deep male voice and it doesn't work for him either

 

Anyway when I say NO to Martin he just answers YES!

[reuby2]

I met with another mum today and her daughter has problems and is about to go throught he dx process for autism. She said one of the things that she had seen in an autism advice place was that using visual cards was much more effective for some kids....e.g a picture of someone kicking with a cross through the picture and the words underneath,

The reason for this is that some kids can't process the whole sentence and that if you say "stop biting, you know you musn't bite" they could actually only hear the "bite " bit and miss the "No" off the front and so the picture makes it clearer to understand...

I tried it tonight on son and he got quite upset that I had put the picture of no biting, no kicking, and no hitting on the wall.. he said that stopped his fun and he couldn't have fun now!!!!

 

GREAT eh?!!!!!

 

However he has been sent to bed tonight in the middle of his video for biting after repeatedly been told not to upstairs!!!!

 

Oh well back to square one!!!

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi Daisyproudfoot,

 

It also has to be loud and you may have to make contact like hold him back and the isolate him from something he likes doing, threaten to take something away from him, he will soon get the message.

 

Hope it helps it does work with my son persistance is the key.

 

Regards

Hailey <'>