Aspergers not autism ?

[KarenM]

I had a argument with my Mam yesterday because she said people with aspergers are not autistic they have a autistic spectrum disorder. Apparently some new american book said so. I got her to to phone up the N A S society who backed her up. I find this very confusing as I prefer to say dd has mild autism as many people dont know what Aspergers is. Just wondered what people thought.

Karen

[TuX]

I don't understand the NAS,they refer to Aspergers as being another form of Autism,but state on the phone,people with AS aren't Autistic?

 

There are some people like the author mentioned whom believe AS is unrelated to Autism,but that is their personal belief only and not fact.

There is only one distinctive criteria difference between Aspergers syndrome and HF Kanners syndrome and that is a verbal delay,even then,a person could be diagnosed with AS from one pysch,and HFK from another.

Edited January 28, 2006 by TuX

[Zemanski]

there hasn't yet been a study that has shown any definitive difference between AS and autism - it has not yet been proved whether or not they are the same but the generally accepted theory is that the two are the same but different presentations.

This is based on research that has a) failed to find differences and shown that able children diagnosed with autism in their early years who develop fluent speech are often indistinguishable from AS people as adults and both still retain the triad of impairments associated with social communication, social imagination and social interaction as detailed in the NAS literature.

 

Asperger believed, certainly as late as 1979 which is the date of his last paper I think, that his syndrome was different from Kanner's autism but his reasons were pretty tenuous and he did acknowledge that the two were very similar. If you look closely at their writings they are actually more similar than most people would expect - for instance it has often been assumed that Kanner worked largely with children with marked language delay (mostly non-verbal) but in fact his original paper says that they had atypical language development with odd prosody - the same can be said of AS kids.

 

I know people who were diagnosed with autism and then rediagnosed with AS later and Com had an initial diagnosis of AS but last year his reports all said autism because of the level of regression he underwent due to stress (he lost language, self-help skills, independence, cognitive functioning, etc) - he is now back to his old self, more or less, but I definitely agreed at the time that qualitatively at least he fitted the picture of autism rather than AS. This could not happen if the two were not the same - it is highly unlikely that they are separate conditions.

 

My father was extremely aggressive about this issue just before Christmas but I know that he, like many other misguided people, sees AS as something mild you can learn to cope with and autism as something devastating which can only destroy lives. Obviously neither is true but too many people think this way.

 

Zemanski

[TuX]

like many other misguided people, sees AS as something mild you can learn to cope with and autism as something devastating which can only destroy lives. Obviously neither is true but too many people think this way.

I agree...too much steriotyping of both.

[DaisyProudfoot]

When I speak to people about my boy I say he has Aspergers Syndrome then when they look blank I add "it's an autism spectrum disorder" - then I get THE LOOK

 

Interestingly he calls himself Autistic.

 

Daisy

[nikrix]

P was diagnosed with ASD at school they always refer to her having aspergers, it is also written in her statement the she has dx of asperger It confuses me.

 

Nikrix

[Flora]

I don't distinguish between HFA and AS. My eldest son has a dx of AS, and my youngest ASD but I would say though with certainty that my son with AS is much more 'autistic' than my youngest son. (though strangely up until he was 5 my youngest was classic kanners). The difference is in the language development; my youngest was non verbal until he was 4 and my eldest had precautious language development.

 

 

Lauren

[LizK]

It is confusing more so because different people use the terms in different ways. We've got a diagnosis of (high functioning) ASD as our paed and ourselves believe it is a more useful label. Also DS has a speech delay so technically has not got AS. Some people use the term autistic to refer specifically to Kanner-type autism (Rainman) where others use it describe anyone on the spectrum. Kanner autism is a very different part of the autistic spectrum than Aspergers but I believe they all fall under the umbrella of ASD. The lady who is running our Early Bird course says that most poeple with ASD are neither at the Kanner or Aspergers ends of the spectrum but fall somewhere in between and can move about the spectrum too.

 

I too say that my son has either mild or high functioning ASD

 

Liz x

[darky]

i dont really know to be honest, but what i do know that with terms now such as hfa, asd,aspergers,autism,pdd-nos leaves many people confused. but in my mind, at the end of the day whether vebal, non verbal, high iq or not, all these people have real difficulties and label or not all deserve to get the help and support they need individualy, whatever the label. i phoned nas once for help and support, the lady i spoke too wasnt very experienced and she told me i couldnt access the support from them, not even any advice re education as my child didnt have autism. i think, unless they come up with something that does NOT link symptoms of hfa,aspergers etc to "autism", then these people should all be able to access the same help and support of those that are deemed "autistic" after all, they still have the same triad of impairments.

when discussing the support for my daughter her new senco said "ah yes but she hasnt actualy been diagnosed with aspergers has she?" no she hasnt, but does that mean her difficulties are more or less real than someone with aspergers or autism?

[raelien]

From my opwn personal point of view - I have just gone through getting C diagnosed and I had the diagnosis explained to me.

 

Basically C's results put him squarley in the autistic range. - The difference between him and and autistic child is that his comprehension of languauge is so high!

 

It is autism but it is diffferenciated by the ability to understand languauge. So I would agree with you - but the spectrum is so broad that there are so many grey area's ( everything we try to avoid).

 

Im no expert - I can only comment from my wn personal experiance

 

but it was once explained to me as thus!

 

Autistic kids live in there own world

Aspergers kids live in our world their way!

[asereht]

Aspergers kids live in our world their way!

 

 

 

 

This is certainly true of my son.....

[Zemanski]

the problem in essence is that the subgroups within autism are not well defined - the scientists and psychology researchers are still trying to figure out how to do this and unfortunately the way the current definitions all overlap makes it very difficult to get a clear grasp of what it all means.

 

basically if you have any sort of diagnosis that puts you on the autistic spectrum, an ASD, you have a developmental delay which can be labelled autism - AS, kanners autism, PDD-NOS ....... are all subtypes (confusion often occurs beause Kanners autism is seen as the original and main type, the only true type of autism, but it is simply one of the subgroups)

 

the argument then is, not do you have autism, but what sort of autism it might be and that, as we have seen, can vary over a person's lifetime as can the impact of it on the person's life.

 

all the people we are talking about have an ASD, we just don't always know which one it is, and to be honest it shouldn't really matter because each presents entirely differently and needs to be treated as an individual even if some strategies are useful across the whole spectrum.

 

unfortunately, most people, especially for some peculiar reason sencos and responsible officers, don't know that.

 

Zemanski

[lil_me]

http://www.a4.org.au/autism.html

 

I found that site explained it well.

Edited January 29, 2006 by lil_me

[ray]

when Alex was diagnosed, about 10 years ago, the way it was explained was by drawing a line which at one end had severe autism, and at the other, high functioning autism (a short step from NT, I guess), but it was all autism - it was just as you neared the HFA end of the scale it was called Aspergers Syndrome, but nevertheless still autism. I've never regarded it as anything other than autism.

 

ray

[lil_me]

I was told by 2 specialists that HFA and Aspergers are different as HFA disagnosis requires a language delay to be present.

[ray]

I was told by 2 specialists that HFA and Aspergers are different as HFA disagnosis requires a language delay to be present.

 

blimey, never knew that, it seems understanding has advanced in the last decade

[lil_me]

I was expecting my son to be diagnosed with Aspergers, but becuase of this part of the diagnostic criteria he wasn't

 

D.There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years).

 

By the time he was diagnosed speech wasn't as much of an issue, but because of his language delay when he was younger he was diagnosed with Autism.

Edited January 29, 2006 by lil_me

[Zemanski]

diagnostically the difference between HFA and AS is exactly that; AS has no delay present in speech and autism does.

 

however, this is much argued over at the moment mainly because it is a pretty arbitary difference, because many with speech delay develop good speech very quickly around the age of 4 or 5 and sometimes later, and also because all children on the autistic spectrum do have language delay even where their speech is superficially perfect from a very early age, this is in the area of pragmatics or the social use of language.

 

while the specialists are arguing about it how can we hope to make sense of it?

[call me jaded]

I think SEN policy writers at the LEA are illegally differentiating provision on the basis of whether the label is HFA or Asperger's. Blanket policies, again.

 

How you can write access criteria that isn't a blanket policy seems to be preventing my LA from producing any criteria at all. Indeed I've heard a teacher say there are no more statements, presumably because no-one knows how to access one.

 

Oooohhh just ready for a soapbox rant.

[adamsmum]

This has realy confused me . Kieran had speach delay know we are waiting to see if he has aspergers in whot way do's the speach effect this do's this mean it's not aspergers Sorry if i seem a bit slow but now im just totaly lost

[Zemanski]

it could go any which way - some will diagnose as AS if language has caught up (tony Attwood takes this line) but others may diagnose autism, some may diagnose ASD instead.

 

whichever your child gets (if he gets a diagnosis that is) it will be a form of autism, whichever form it is is just a signpost to direct you to finding the right support - it is often easier to get support with a diagnosis of HFA than of AS because of the 'mild' label often attached to AS but the support your child needs will be very much an individual thing because whatever the diagnosis no two kids on the spectrum ever have the same needs or respond equally well to the same strategies.

 

It isn't any worse to get a diagnosis of autism; if you already know your child has serious problems then those will not change whichever label is used to describe them - they will not be any worse just because it is called autism rather than AS and you may find people generally take the problems more seriously. The prognosis for future success in life is pretty much the same for both groups.

 

several people I know have gone expecting a diagnosis of AS and come out in complete shock because the diagnosis is autism - best to be prepared for the possibility and to know why this might happen beforehand.

 

good luck

 

Zemanski

[helenl53]

My son has AS but I ususally, if asked, I say that he has a type of autism known as Aspergers Syndrome.

 

I think that to be honest, there needs to be some universal acceptance that wherever on the 'spectrum' it is one and the same disorder - I think that HFA and AS are sometimes perceived by service providers as nothing more bothersome than a runny nose that can be wiped and it will go away.

 

No matter where on the spectrum, there will be a need for adjustment and provision to be made.

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[adamsmum]

OK thanks this has cleard things up a bit. Now i know whot to expect so fof kieran it could go eather way. Lucky his speach is a lot better now aged 8 but his understanding of the words is still verry delayed funnily he knows a lot of difficult words and uses them but has no idea what thay mean

[UltraMum]

J was originally just ASD then changed to HFA yet we mostly read books on AS as that seems to fit with what we know of him better than many books on 'plain' autism.

[KarenM]

Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. Lil Me your link was very helpful.

Karen

[jayjay]

Dont know if it helps anyone but my son was diagnosed back in november and because he has speech delay he was diagnosed with PDD-NOS, paed said that was the only reason she didnt diagnose aspergers

jayne xx