Causes of Autistic Spectrum Disorders?

[CarolJ]

chip off the old block nells huh, it appeas there are a set of circumstances perhaps combination of several causes that can result in ASDs, what worries me is the amount of kids around now that have ASDs.

 

How is your son getting on? Is making good progress? From what I have read birth trauma is a common factor. Doctors often refer to my long labour with Emma as a causal factor, although she did not appear to suffer distress - she was monitored and was slightly jaundiced, and did not suffer from lack of oxygen and did not ned to go to neonatal care. She seemed fine after her birth and made good progress. I used to often blame her birth but that did not explain the regression she experienced.

 

I had her pead,. on the phone a few weeks ago saying about Emma's birth being a possible causal factor but if it was a birth thing, then Emma should have been worse than scottie, because scotts was a straightforawrd quick normal birth, no complicatiosn whatsoever. I know of many kids who have had difficult births but theydont all go on to develop AS.

 

Sorry Nells - Iam digressing here, I have so many questions and the answers are just not there.

 

On a completely different note I have gotten myself involved in a thread on another site where the subject was kids running amok in public and alot of posters were saying that so many kids were naughty and out of control. I tried to get them to understand about autism and that some of these kids they just dismissed as naughty and their c**p parents could have hidden disability like ASD. I might have been talking a chinese. I was asking them to have an open mind!

 

I had one moaner saying that they would know the difference - the general tone of the posts was anti-brats and if you could not control your child then they should not be out in public!

 

I just tried to bring a different viewpoint to the thread but some people really seem to just want to believe that the child is just an out of the control brat and c**p parents!

 

One moaner said my points were not relevant! Needless to say that is when it got personal!

 

Sorry Nells, I am rambling again.

[CarolJ]

Simon

 

I don't really know of many cases where a child with Asperegers has 'regressed' at all,whether or not the child has had MMR.

 

Thanks for this, I have often wondered about aspergers and any regression.

 

As I posted before I have video tape of my son taken before his MMR which shows him giving full eye contact, interracting socially, pointing, following verbal instructions and he was alert and very bright. If someone spoke in the room, even from a very young age, his head would zip round to face the direction of the sound or the voice. He was talking, I have often studied earlier video tape to try ot ascertain whether there were any signs. I have had a friend of mine who is a peadiatric nurse to look at the tape (her son regressed after MMR) and she confirmed that there were no obvious signs.

 

I have often been acused of being in denial but the changes I observed espeically in my son were dramatic in a very short space of time.

 

Tape taken after scotts MMR shows him very withdrawn, non responsive, moaning and rocking his body backwards and forwards. He seemed to cry for six months solidily after MMR. I remember him banging his head against his cot, walls, floors, and generally he was miserable. There was nothing I could do to comfort him.

 

He developed atypical measles followign MMR and dirreoeah, he also seemed constantly thirsty, and his tastes in food changed. Before MMR he had hated fromage frais yogurts afterwards he would eat six in one go. I remember Emma before MMR at 12 months would eat everthing I gave her. Literaly over night she went off of a lot of food and became really fussy. She still is to this day. Both mine seem to dislike certain textures of foods!

 

I know there is no conclusive proof that MMR can lead to autism. there are studies that point to a link but I think the most overwhelming evidence as far as I am concerned is the amount of parents like myself who observed changes in their children. Something happened to these kids - what was it?

 

Those are the questions that are being ignored!

 

We do not have a history of autism, in our family, other half has some traits but I think most people have traits (especailly men if you go for the male brain theory of Cohen), my kids asds are a bolt from the blue!

[nellie]

Thanks Carol

 

Yes, my son has done well in his placement. He's is having a catatonic episode at the moment, (see my previous posting in help and advice) there have been some staff changes recently and I think the stress has caused this reaction. It's his birthday in a few weeks, I plan to take him to Disney Paris for a few days and I have bought him a PS2 and eye toy as suggested by Baddad. Hopefully this will give him the lift he needs.

 

I am happy with the care, he shares his house with two other people on the spectrum and most of the time they have one to one care. He goes to college three days a week with one of his carers to support him. I know I am very lucky to have this level of care for him, he considers it home, unfortunately it is a fair distance from where we live, but the expertise of the placement had to take top priority.

 

 

Nellie.

[pookie170]

Hi all!

 

Regarding the regression topic, my son could name about 14 different colours, count to 10 and knew left from right by the age of 2. (People NEVER believe me about this!! ) However, he hit two and a half, and all the wee 'oddities' that had been worrying me regarding his behaviour became much more pronounced overnight. He became almost uncontrollable at playgroup....I admit that prior to this stage, he wouldn't join in group activities, but he would at least SIT with the group quite amicably. And then one day, he started running away from the others and reacting strongly to other kids trying to play with him. Lots of social and communication problems became very apparent.....and by the time he was three, he didn't know how to count anymore, only recognised 4 colours....and to this day, left and right still confuses him. I don't know if it's classic regression, but something happened all right! Caghal started suffering monthly bouts of gastrenteritis at 4 months, (after his last DTP vaccination!)which lasted until he was 4.5....and even now he has some digestive problems. Thinking on it, Carol, at about 2.5, he went through a concentrated patch of gastrointestinal illness....but I couldn't prove a link as we usually just get on with it minus doctor appointments.

 

As for the MMR......it worries me. I haven't had my youngest vaccinated with the MMR, nor will I unless single jabs become available. As Elanor says, this is very much a personal choice, and everyone is more than entitled to their own opinion on it.

As to what you should do about boosters.....my advice would be to look at your son's circumstances closely. Are there any changes you can pinpoint that seems to be linked to vaccination? I cannot tell you what you should do, but I feel that if someone has worries, then don't go ahead with anything until you have come to a firm decision about it. I agree with Eleanor, waiting for a while would not be the end of the world. But I know how agonising the choice can be.....on a personal level, my youngest is unprotected, but he coped with chicken pox at 6 weeks old admirably well, and I'm sure he'd weather mumps/measles fairly well too. As a child, I managed fine, anyway, though I do realise there could be complications, etc, and adult infection is a different kettle of fish....still, I've made me decision, and if Elijah wants to change the deal when he's older, that'll be his choice.

I'm sure that children's immune systems are not fully developed until they're at least five years old, anyway. Maybe rethink then.....

It's a tough one!

Nellie, hope your lad's birthday cheers him up a bit, he's lucky to have such a great Mum! It sounds like he has a great place to live, even if it's a bit further away than you'd like. Let us know what he thinks of the Eye Toy, would you? Caghal's birthday is in October (4 days after mine!) and I'm thinking about buying him this...especially as he LOVES his PS2!

Esther x

[baddad]

Hi all,

 

I'll try to be brief (haha), but here's Ben's history...

Mum had a couple of mild bouts of Pre Eclampsia, the final bout a couple of days before the full term, which led to him being induced. Labour was not particularly long, but the umbilical was around his neck and he was a little blue but not oxygen starved as far as we know... He was slightly smaller than average (6lb on the nail) and a little anaemic. Given these two factors, they were concerned he might be at risk from infection, so gave him a blood transfusion and antibiotics. He spent a day on the "special care" ward, then in with mum for a day, then back into special care after anaemia returned and he needed more blood/antibiotics...(phew).

 

Once home, Ben gained weight, and apart from poor sleeping & mild delays in achieving early milestones, seemed fine. He didn't cope too well coming off of breast milk, and as he progressed from formula to cows milk these problems got worse - severe constipation and lots of vomiting.

 

By his first birthday, I was convinced Ben had adhd. He never slept, was into everything and always on the go. Very bi-polar personality; either beaming smiles and laughter or miserable as sin...

 

By two, absolutely convinced of adhd, and started seeking professional input. Despite my own background (I worked with autistic people, and helped support an autistic nephew) I never for one moment though Ben had an ASD. During the referal process, I saw three GP's and the paediatrician I consulted about the vomiting, all of whom discounted autism, despite the family history. Two agreed about the ADHD, the other GP thought I was imagining things.

 

First referal to paediatrician re adhd was in September at 2yrs 1 month. She found absolutely nothing wrong with Ben, but was "mildly" concerned regarding his speech delay (he had some words, but not as many as most 2 year olds). Further appointment made to check on speech development. In the three months between these appointments Ben "regressed" to the point that diagnosis was made within minutes of second meeting.

 

For the record, Ben DID NOT have his MMR jab... My nephews asd developed directly following his jab... I felt that Ben's "adhd", bowel disorder and family history indicated a "high risk" for vaccine damage. The same professionals who told me there was "no chance" that Ben was or could "develop" autism were pushing me to get him vaccinated. While I can prove nothing, I remain firmly convinced that Ben's ASD would be more profoundly disabling had I gone ahead with his MMR jab.

 

During the period between appointments Ben had a viral infection. Ben has an "odd" immune system, in that it attacks any sort of infection dramatically. He develops seriously high temperatures, but fights off the infection rapidly... On this occassion, the GP was convinced Ben had chicken pox. His temperature soared and I had to bathe him throughout the night in cold water -scary stuff... By morning, there was no sign of infection, but Ben started displaying ritualistic behaviours etc within days.

 

Whatever the viral infection was, it's unlikely it was chicken pox, as Ben got full blown chicken pox 2 years later. Whether it was the virus directly or the temperature surrounding it, I'm convinced Ben's major "problems" started from that point; i.e. that he had a "susceptability" (both genetic and from his birth complications), but that the virus/temperature acted as a trigger on thet susceptability.

 

At seven, Ben is very confusing; while he has many features of autism, he also seems to have an awareness of social expectations (not that he can meet them, but he does know what's required!) that runs at odds with the classic diagnostic criteria. He also shows an unusual degree of emotional understanding, and his humour can be very sophisticated by any seven year old standards...

 

I'm not in denial, and I'm not seeking to add any more labels (MUNCH BY PROXY); but my son confuses ME daily, so I'm not too trusting of professionals who think they've got his number from half hour meetings once a year... At the end of the day they can label him how they want - I couldn't give a monkey's so long as the provision they offer is what he needs. Shame of it all is - it aint!

 

Anyway, that's Ben, and I'm outta here!

 

'n'

[baddad]

...I think most people have traits (especailly men if you go for the male brain theory of Cohen)...

 

Hi sparkledraws -

 

More info, or a link, sil vous plait...

[CarolJ]

Oi less of the sparkle drawers - as a man you are just jealous cos you cant make your knickers take on a lifeforceof their own!

 

Back to the subject in hand: I have found a study - claiming a link between MMR and autism.

 

The ironic thing is the information used in this study is the same information that the DoH used to disprove a link - someone else has looked at the same information and concluded that there is a link!

 

=====================================================

 

 

Mail on Sunday

29 August 2004

 

There IS a link between the MMR jab and autism, claims new research

EXCLUSIVE

By Rachel Ellis, Medical Correspondent

 

A key study repeatedly used by the Government to support the MMR vaccine

was wrongly carried out and gave inaccurate results, experts claimed

yesterday.

 

The Danish research, which examined the medical records of more than

half-a-million children born over eight years, concluded there was no link

between children given MMR and the onset of autism.

 

But fresh analysis of the data by four experts to be published this week in

the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons suggest there is a link.

 

The first new study, by Dr Samy Suissa, an epidemiologist at McGill

University, Montreal, who looked at the same data the Danish doctors used, concludes

that children who received the triple jab were 45 per cent more likely to

develop autism than those who were not given it.

 

A second piece of research - by Dr Fouad Yazbak, an American paediatrician

- shows a 400 per cent rise in autism after the introduction of MMR in Denmark, even

after taking into account greater awareness of the condition.

 

And a third study by Dr Andrew Wakefield, who first made the link between

MMR and autism in 1998, and Dr Carol Stott of Cambridge University, shows

autism cases in Denmark have increased by 14.8 per cent each year since MMR

was introduced.

 

The findings will be a blow to the Government and supporters of

MMR who have relied heavily on the Danish study to dispel concerns about the

safety of the jab. They come at a time when the Government's immunisation

programme is once again in the spotlight following the announcement

earlier this month of a new five-in-one vaccine for babies.

 

For parents, the new research will add still further to the confusion about

MMR.

 

Dr Wakefield, formerly of London's Royal Free Hospital, now works at a

school and research centre for children with developmental disorders in

Texas. He believes the Danish study was flawed because it made too many

assumptions.

 

"Many of the children in the original study were too young to be vaccinated

or too young to have received a diagnosis of autism. That was a mistake,"

he said.

 

"In order to include them in the study, an age adjustment was carried out

but that was inappropriate. It assumes that children we have not

ascertained data about because they were too young were representative of the older

population.

 

"When the data was reanalysed without the age adjustment, there was a

significant excess risk of MMR in children with autism against the controls.

The original Danish study has been used as a rod to beat those who believe

MMR may be linked to autism.

 

"It was considered to be the definitive study which showed that there is no

link. This new study underlines how statistics can be deceptive and misleading."

 

A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said the original Danish study

had been reviewed by the Institute of Medicine in Washington and no

problems had been raised about the validity of the data.

 

She added: "There have been many other studies that have come to the same

conclusion - that there is no link between MMR and autism."

[baddad]

Well that's put the cat among the pigeons, oh sparkly one! Lets hope this one is not so easily "spun" into oblivion...

We know it's coming, they know it's coming... the beggars making the stuff know it's coming, but God, it's going to be a long and slow one...

 

Thumbs aren't entirely appropriate, I know, but in the context of "at last we might be getting somewhere"...

[Kevinasp]

I can't see how Autism and AS are solely caused by the MMR jab alone. This notion has caused controversy since Andrew Wakefield's announcement in 1998. The MMR jab was only introduced in October 1988. Plenty of people were born in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's and much of the 1980's with these conditions. It may increase the propensity or being prone to it but is not the sole cause. If however, people believe it is a factor they should give their child each of the three jabs seperately at different times. It maybe is genetic but no-one in my family has AS. There were 9 in my dad's family and 6 in my mum's. My uncle and my dad's dad have suffered from their nerves and my cousin's son has Dyslexia on my mum's side but the condition may have been passed down generations in a mutant or rogue gene in someone who was born, lived and died 200 years ago or so and woke itself up in me. I think though a number of factors are the reason for these conditions. Whilst it is important they spend money finding the cause, wouldn't some of that money also be better spent on improving the lives of people with AS and Autism who are alive today?

 

Kevin Phillips (I have AS myself)

[CarolJ]

Kevin I dont think anyone has ever suggested MMR is the sole cause of autism. Andrew Wakefield found the measles virus in the guts and brain fluid of children who had a condiiton called Late-Onset Autism (Autistic Enterocolitis) who had no history of natural infection with measles. All had become or developed gut and behavioural, regressed following MMR. Many developed seizures.

 

The causes of autism are indeed varied, genetics, birth trauma, congenital infection during pregnancy (ie Rubella), exposure to toxins ie mercury, head trauma, medical intervention or serious viral infection.

 

My two children regressed following MMR. My son stopped developing, had a high fever, rash, and screamed constantly he regressed. He now has no speech or understanding of language, is still in nappies and has gut problems. This is clearly not apsergers. It is a degenerative condition. My son is not makign progress at all. He learns something and unlearns it. He had MRI scan which did not show any abnormalities which could account for the problems he has.

 

My daughter regressed twice, once at 12 months and once at aged 4.5years where she lost problems with coordination, kept falling etc. All regressions followed in the wake of vaccination with MMR.

 

Measles,mumps and rubella can cause regressive autism, enchaphalitis (which is known to be a side effect of vaccination) can cause regressive autism, toxins in vaccinations and the environment and genetic suceptibility can all work to push some vulnerable children to regress.

 

As some autists are sensitive to certain things. Perphaps that inborn sensitivity is what makes for a catasprohic regression.

 

I have heard people say with regressive autism its like a "computer crash". Firstly my son is a human not a machine. And secondly, what can cause a computer to crash, hardware failure (not in my sons case he has no brain damage) or a virus!!!

 

Too many parents are telling the same stories over and over again yet noone looks at these kids.

 

And why do the government spend so much money trying to dispprove the link! It was rubbish why take it so seriously? Why do they refuse to look at these children and find out exactly what did happen.

 

Every one of the studies pointing to no link is epidimological in nature and has never examined one autistic child. They go by medical records GPRD, which are often inaccurate and dont often list when onset of symptoms started. Indeed many studies survey populations looking at immediate serious reaction, ie seizures anphalatic shock.

 

This however does not explain "regression" and onset of physical symptoms like seziure and bowel diseases in infants and children who had up until time of vaccination had no problems with reaching milestones, developmental goals.

 

Aspergers has always been around, albert einstein, issac newton, george bernard shaw, michael angelo etc. were genius savants. I dont think we would be where we are today if it werent for autists. However, my son does not fit into the genius catagory. He is a very challenged little boy who does not even respond to his own name or recognise himself in the mirror or photographs.

 

All I know is that both my children had a reaction to the MMR and regressed. Video tape, photographs, child development records all show massive regression and onset of symptoms.

 

It seems many high functioning autists in the autistic community dispute that vaccination can cause autism. I think what we have to remember is that these children who regress are different from born high functioning aspergers individuals. So when a parent like myself says my child became autistic followign MMR, we are in fact saying that my child regressed following MMR, developed symptoms of bowel disease and seizures and was subsequently given diagnosis of low functioning autism not Aspergers.

 

I think it needs to made clear just what type of autism we are talking about with regards to vaccine damage.

 

Anglemans, Rett syndrome, fragile X and other genetic conditions have been identified as causes of autism, my kids have had tests but none of these genetics are the problem with my kids.

 

We have absolutely no history of autism or related conditions in our extended family. And I dont believe that aspergers is caused by a "mutant" gene. Everyone has autistic traits in some individuals where an individual has so many of the traits it results in someone with aspergers then diagnosis is given. This is the reason why I dont believe the gene for aspergers will ever be found. Aspergers individuals are as differnet from each other as everyone else.

 

I dont think of a born high functioning aspergers individual as "damaged", yet my son is clearly damaged. Does this make sense?

 

As an aspergers individual do you want a cause for aspergers found? I want to know why my children regressed so severely after MMR. That is not the same thing. Dont worry no money is spent on looking at these kids, yet loads of money it seems is put into disproving a link, what a waste and I totally agree with you because this is political spin aimed at convincing parents to vaccinate their kids. I want someone to look at those who have suffered a regresion and find out what it is in common that these kids have, then use this knowledge to pre-screen future infants to try and make vaccination safer for all concerned.

 

Vaccine reaction happens, its a fact, yet its far easier to ignore or dismiss reactions because not everyone becomes autistic following MMR, in that it is safe for the majority but there is a minority who suffer devasting injuries from it.

[LKU]

I think my son's difficult birth may be the cause.Eventually delivered by ventouse after 3 hours of pushing.

Does anyone agree/disagree that 3hrs is excessive.

 

Also had meningitis at 2yrs old but don't think this caused AS though.

[bevalee]

I had a difficult birth with my son. 18 hours of second stage labour and only dilated 4cms. Then he went into distress followed by an emergency C-sectiion.

He was incubated and then developed astma. He crawled, walked and talked really early. But since he was diagnosed with AS, ADHD, dyspraxia & dyslexia in Dec 03, i know of 2 of my mother's family with AS, one of who has just found out his 4yr old is autistic. So i suppose it is genetic in my family.

 

Bev

[AmyNelson]

I agree with the poll that autism is hereditary. I have AS and my son has AS/HFA. There are other family members on the spectrum too.

[Amanda32]

I had a very quick birth with my son, he became very distressed and was born with forceps i think weighing 5 lbs. He had the cord around his neck 3 times in which that was bad enough. Then they told me he had no opening of his back passsage, i was really emotional right then. This was called imperforated anus, he was then transferred to a specialist hospital for a colostomy. He as undergone 3 ops for the bowels and a reconstruction on his trachae as he would have alot of breathing difficulties. Alot of the hospital admissions as put him behind it has not helped. Not sure what causes ASD but problems at birth being in hospital and having lots of time from school does not help the child. At the end of the day i think he's got it so get on with it other wise you worry to much.

 

Take care

Amanda <'> <'>

[Lucas]

I had a traumatic birth and was on life-support for six weeks, I miraculously recovered right after they switched it off, leading everyone to believe that I must have been somehow faking hypothermia.

 

I think it's actually Autism that causes these kinds of births and not the otehr way around; the sudden change of enviroment as the baby leaves the womb would be terrifying.

[AmyNelson]

Surely the mechanics of birth cant either cause or be caused by autism. The cord would be wrapped around the neck regardless. Both my son and daughter had the cord wrapped round the neck, my daughter was very ill after the birth. My son has autism and my daughter doesnt.

Many children have difficult births but dont develop autism.

[Amanda32]

Hi AmyNelson

 

I can understand what you are saying, i dont know what causes ASD. I just gave my experience about what happened with my son. My views on causes is he's been diagnosed and all i can do is help him the best i can. I would like to know the cause but i dont think many Dr's know either, not really only what you can do to help him.

Amanda

[lorryw]

I have to say that I feel quite concerned about the diagnosis of autism in very young children To be diagnosed at a very young age (before 3) is surely too early.

The whole system has completely changed over the years.

When my son was diagnosed 15 years ago the professionals were very reluctant to give a life long label. At the time the diagnosise was extremely rare. I live in a very large town and was told that he was the first person the hospital had seen with autism in the past 10 years. Now there seems to have been an explosion of kids given this life changing diagnosis. I work in education and even a few years ago most of the staff were completely clueless when I said my son was autistic. Now, at least 2 children in every class are suspected by teaching staff of being autistic, suddenly everyone is an expert!!

The diagnosis is only the start and sadly isnt a golden key to answers or practical help. I am very concerned that parents are given the diagnosis and then sent on there way to get on with it. I have read a thread on another site where one Mum is trying every possible therapy, diet or intervention she can find., no matter how bizzare. Her poor children are being pulled from pillar to post, fed a very restrictive diet and given goodness knows what concoctions she has found on the web.

When we were told my son had severe learning difficulties and autistic features we were totally alone. For most parents I dont think anything has really changed and sites like this are a real god send

Sorry this is such a rambling thread but I would be interested in any thoughts you may have

cheers Loraine

[CarolJ]

Hi Loraine

 

In my road alone there are 6 children who I know of who are on the spectrum. 2 As yet undiagnosed Aspergers. In the road off mine there are 2 low functioning (non verbals) like my scottie. In an area of 2 square miles there are 35 on the Disability Register for ASDs. My two are on it, but my daughter is not on as an ASD (yet). In the St Helier ward in which I live there are 65 kids on the disability register, the majority have learning difficulties and behavioural issues. I know recognition has increased and diagnositic criteria has opened up. Perhaps many of the children now would have been called something else a few years back. But looking at the history of the disability register in the area there are certainly more kids now with problems than there were before. Again this could be down to better recognition but with children like my son, still in nappies at aged 5 - completely non verbal etc. these would have been recognised years ago - you could not miss it I am afraid. My son was dx'd between 2 and 2.5years, he was first referred for possibly autism at 18 months. I first raised the possibility of autism because I had just supported a dear friend of mine (we went to school together) get recognition for her daughter who also had regressive autism. In my daugther's class there is her, One AS and one ADHD (possible AS).

 

All I know is that the local education authority are struggling to provide places for the children. I sat in a meeting with a Education Adviser who admitted to me that September 2005 will be impossible. They have so many coming up through the system. She said the numbers had "mushroomed" in the area.

 

My peadiatrican was very reluctant to dx my son at such an early age. He disliked giving labels to kids. My argument was that a label can always be taken away or changed if need be. Without a label my son would not get the specific education and input and access to specailist school place that he needed. This is why many parents push for dx. The thing is as well it is recognised that intervention and support at an early age is beneficial to a child with ASD.

 

It saddens me that many children go through their early years at school without recognition and support, its only when the child's mental state deteriorates and their problems become more apparent as they get older. By then alot of damage to child's self-esteem has been done.

 

Hey a label is a label. It can be removed if it is wrong. My thoughts are its better to be safe than sorry!

 

I am currently pushing for dx for my daughter who is 8. She was given Oppositional Defiance Disorder and Elective Mutism dx at aged 3.5 years. Her learning delay has widened to half her chronological age and its now apparent to all that she struggles with language. When you put her against her peers the gap is ever widening. However, along with the push for dx for AS, I run the risk of a label myself as perhaps MSBP or over anxious mother. We tread a fine line in the fight to get the help our kids need.

 

I have heard talk of "over diagnosis". That children have been given unnecessary dx's. Well if that is the case, then I am sure any parent would be more than happy to remove a label they felt was not appropriate.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

 

Take care

[lorryw]

Thanks Carol, it is really worrying that all these children wont be able to access all the help they need. With the best will in the world the education and health system is just not geared up at all.

I have spent most of my sons life being told , oh I dont know anything about autism, I havent come across it. My sons schooling was an absolute nightmare. He doesnt speak and was in nappies until 5. He went to a brilliant language unit for a year where he was toilet trained and learning makaton. After a year his statement was changed and he was sent to an SLD school and despite years of fighting thats where he stayed..absolute nightmare.

We are now at the other end of the roadm looking for day care... absolutely nothing!!! At the moment I am waiting for the social worker to call with the latest decision on what they feel is appropriate. My son and I have been home together since July. We are both quite happy at the moment but feel as though we are in some kind of weird vacuum. I do a little work from home,he keeps himself occupied watching TV, messing around in the garden, eating...... Just read that it sounds really depressing!!! We are fine and after all the traumas of school life is 100 per cent easier...but it isnt the answer. When I mention to SS that a whole army of kids are about to decend on them they nod wisely and quickly change the subject.

Loraine x

[mary crookes]

I was told 24hours before my labour started that I'd got my dates wrong, and that my baby wouldn't be born for another month, he was layed cross wise and his head never engaged, I knew my dates were exact.At 6.30 the following morning my waters broke, 26hours 30mins later he was born without c section, his appearance was very dark,I could only see the top of his head and he looked black to me, I was cut and the stiches took weeks to heal, he never cried for two days, but once he did, he's never shut up since, and thirty six years listening to him has given me a very bad head ache. I do always blame his birth, and it was all aviodable.

[big mamma]

Hi Loraine,

 

My daughter was formally diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder last month, aged 2 1/2. The only thing they did say is that they wouldn't give a more specific diagnosis at this stage eg. Asperger's Syndrome (although all the signs point to this) as she is so young.

 

To be honest with you had I taken her for assessment at 18 months I think she would have been diagnosed then as well as her problems / cleverness were apparent even then.

 

I know what you mean about them being labelled at such an early age but to me I look at the diagnosis as ammunition in my no doubt lifelong fight to get her the support she needs.

 

If we had just ignored the difficulties and blamed it on shyness etc. we would have been currently wondering what the hell we would do about nursery placements etc. Because we have sought help, her entry into a nursery environment has been carefully planned and staged in a manner she can cope with.

 

Also I think it has made it easier for other family members / friends to accept her somewhat bizzare behaviour now that her problems have a name.

[CarolJ]

I do always blame his birth, and it was all aviodable.

mary <'>

 

This knowledge must be difficult for you. The thing is we luv our kids ASD's warts n all! One cheeky grin from my scottie, and it dont matter. Its everyone else who needs to adjust their thinking!

 

Also I think it has made it easier for other family members / friends to accept her somewhat bizzare behaviour now that her problems have a name.

 

Big Mamma, I found before Emma was given her dx of ODD and elective mutism, I struggled to try to explain to people why she was different. Without a "label", I felt attitudes were harsher towards me as a parent, even people saying I should be "tougher" on her! It was a relief to get dx (even though it was completely wrong!) - just so I could turn around and say look yes, its a recognised problems and its not down to my c**p parenting !

 

This is why I pushed hard for scotties dx . Otherwise you spend half your life trying to explain about their differences to everyone else - especially with two SN kids, people were definitely thinking yep - c**p mum!

 

Lorraine

 

I have a copy of the Disability Register for Sutton if you would like to take a look. You can see from the area map there is a cluster where I live! Pls PM me with your email and I will send it to you.

 

Take care all

 

hugs n stuff

[kerrybobs]

Hiya

 

I think their could be a number of factors.

 

When I was pregnant with Robyn 9, As, Adhd &dyslexia. My waters broke at 26 weeks, I was given steroid injections to stop labour. I had 2 lots of this. I had to go for doppler scans every week to measure the water round the baby.

 

I was started off at 35 weeks and had a 3 hr labour, it was a dry birth (very painful)!!!! She was born weighing in at 4lb 11oz. She didnt have to go into special care (thank god). We had a nurse from special care coming to the house every other day. They commented that her head was very small !!!!! I mean what can you do about the size of your head????? (nothing)

 

As a baby she hated being held and did not like kisses and cuddles. Yet she was walking by 8 1/2 mths and talking by 12 mths she was into everything. Very stubborn and did whatever she felt like doing. She was completely different to my other daughter and I just put it down to chalk and cheese.

 

Anyway Im rambling here!!!

 

My mother-in-law is a manic depressive, and since the diagnosis of As I would say Robyn's dad shows traits of As and so does his mother. But my partners nephew has dyslexia and behavioral probs so I dont know if he has As too???

 

I was worried about the MMR. As Robyn was developing early (but when I think about it she was already showing us her quirky little ways).

 

 

Kerry

[Spike]

Hi all, Im Melissa, Spikes wife....

 

I have done alot of reading, on the subject due to the outcome of our eldest sons assesment, last year, and I really do think there is a genetic link. From what a lot of you have said, there have been, some suspisions, as to close family, and particually on the females fathers side of the family..... This is obviously not a concrete statement,,, merely from what i have read and experienced myself.... I can almost definately say that my father has Asperger's, my grandfather (fathers, father), is a strong case, and my 21 year old brother, whom from an early age, showed signs of severe dyslexia, and behavoral problems. Due to the time my brother was going through school, there was very little known about children with learning and social differences, so he basically slipped through the net, he is at this moment in time going though a physchological nightmare, as he is plagued with paranoia, compulsive disorders, evil mood swings and at times will not come out of his room for days... The problem is,,, he is tooo smart for his own good, and has seen Dr's and psychatric teams,, but he tells them what they want to hear,, just so they leave him alone...... he is not the only person i have encountered who have had strong poss of having ASD's... And are slipping through this net..

 

It is all too easy to expel a child/adult from society, due to the fact that they don't process, react or see things the way the rest of the community does.

 

What the community doesnt realise is the fact that these people are usually extemely gifted, and can offer a lot to society, as far as I am concerend I dont just have a son with ASD I have a son, who's gifts may one day help provide answers to questions that we could never have the vision to see.

[nellie]

Hi Melissa,

 

It's lovely to hear from you. I am sorry to hear about your brother. I have two sons, my eldest is now 26 and wasn't diagnosed until he was 19. My youngest is 24, he has just been referred for possible diagnosis.

 

He had a complete breakdown four years ago, he is now off medication and stable but spends the majority of his time alone in his room. Luckily he does have friends who have stood by him. Both my sons have suffered emotional and mental health problems due to their late diagnosis.

 

There is certainly a link in our family my husband was diagnosed with AS at the age of 52 just over a year ago.

 

It is all too easy to expel a child/adult from society, due to the fact that they don't process, react or see things the way the rest of the community does.

 

I agree!!

 

Best wishes to you and your family

 

Nellie xx

[Suze]

Hi everyone.The question what causes ASD is an interesting one, and something I have pondered on a lot since my sons dx.Upon looking at the family for a genetic link several candidates sprung to mind.Also the pregnancy/birth theory could also be the culprit as it was plagued with many disasters and medical interventions.I read a book about Autism and the author(can,t remember name) had studied the many suspected causes,she concluded that a gene leaves babies "vunerable",and triggers such as illness, difficult birth, MMR,genetics etc, can bring on the onset of ASD.The way it was written in the book made sense even if I,m not.I wonder if we will ever really know the cause.

[barefoot wend]

Hi all

 

My son's AS is definitely hereditary. My Dad obviously had AS, I have a niece who is undx and a grandfather who also probably had AS.

 

I also strongly empathise with my son, so I think there are probably traits in me - I was always called a 'crazy mixed up kid'.

 

One of my other children shows signs of ADHD as do some of my sisters - is there a link?

 

I have four children and my son's birth was definitely the most hellish though I've been told this can sometimes be the case as they don't help with the birthing process as other children do - who can blame them? If they knew how hard they'd have to work and how much little help they'd get from outsiders.

 

It staggers me that there aren't more specialist schools to reflect the explosion in diagnosed cases.

 

And, a quick rant, how come the government insist on education inclusion on the one hand and then declare that there will be a zero-tolerance policy towards misbehaviour in the classroom - my boy's out then!

 

Thank goodness for wonderful parents like us.

 

Barefoot

[Suze]

Completely agree with the inclusion scenario within schools, how do you include a child like my son who does,nt want to be included.Result stress and more AS traits,more anger,more agression, conclusion exclusion!

[Joe's gran]

Really difficult one this....causes. My daughter is firmly convinced that Joe's ASD has not been caused by anything and is just...'Joe'. He did have very difficult birth which could have been one of the triggers I suppose. He has always been a little bit different although we didn't suspect ASD until he went to preschool playgroup and found it difficult to mix with the others (althoguh plays well now 8 months on).

We do have one or two slightly quirky family members, myself included I suppose too. So he fits in well with his computer obsessed grandma!

Joe's gran.

[Rabbit]

My hubby and I adopted our boys. They are true biological siblings. R our oldest came to us at 18 months old. J followed on 11 months later and was 8 months when we welcomed him into our lives.

 

Both boys settled very well and life was so perfect for all of us. For the first time in my life I felt complete.

 

When it came time for us to have J's MMR vaccine we decided that we would hold off....there had been at that time so many news bulletins about the possible connection between MMR and Autism.

 

J was developing well apart from his speech....he did tend to babble and not form words....he also liked to watch the same film over and over again.....The Wizard of Oz.

 

When J was 2 years 7 months old I took him to see the HV for his weight/height check....she persuaded me to let her give J his MMR......that night he was rushed into ICU because he was fitting and became unconcious. His body was so swollen all over and he was turning purple. Of course because I had been so worried about the MMR I was convinced this had caused his sudden problem.

 

The Paed gave J a massive dose of augmentin via IV and told us he had a bad viral infection....it was nothing to do with the MMR.

 

Things went OK and J came home after 10 days. My family live away and they all came to visit J a few days later. All my family members commented on how insular J had become....what did they expect he had been ill.

 

Within a month of J's mystery illness he had completely changed....he stopped talking and locked himself into his silent world. Years of going backwards and forwards to see Paed after Paed...SALT after SaLT...we still have no confirmed DX of Autism....J is 9 in three weeks time. He is presenting with "Autistic Traits and has Semantic Pragmatic disorder" is the closest we have gotten to a DX....along with ADHD, Dyspraxia and Dyslexia....Oh and don't forget the severe learning difficulties....and the poor parenting label we have been given along the way.....and the "well he's adopted" remarks!!!!! I really think he is so complex that he is undxable if thats possible?????

 

We have always said that we lost the J we adopted, the day we gave him the MMR....I have cried for my giggly, contented baby....I have wanted him back so much....where did he go????

 

That was before we did some routing around....luckily we have an excellent relationship with the birth parents and their socail worker. We managed to discover that both parents have a history of mental health problems in their families....some diagnosed with szycophrenia (is that how you spell it????), some with social communication difficulties and COD.

 

So now we are not so sure....was it the MMR....was it the Augmentin...new research is showing a link....or is it down to genetics?????

 

Personally I believe I was so ignorant and did not recognise the traits when J was small...he loved repetitive motion....the washing machine was his toy....the constant watching of The Wizard of Oz....the spinning....the babble instead of speech.....

 

Maybe he had mild traits and the MMR/Augmentin triggered those traits to become worse....I dont know....Im not the brightest of the bunch....all I know is I love my little man and I wouldnt change him for the world....but I would change the world for him.

 

Rabbit

[doubletrouble]

I know this is a subject which is so hard as so many have differring opinions. Last week I had to accept that our youngest is also on the spectrum. This proved very difficult for me, despite knowing in my heart that she had too many ASD traits to ignore.

 

This has actually had quite an interesting reaction from the side of professionals, but one which untill last night I was unable to grasp...(just call me slow!).

 

My husband aslo has Aspergers, which he is quite open about admitting if he is in the right situation. So primiraliy that just leaves 2 of us out of a family of 6 who do not have ASD. My second eldest son and myself.

 

I have now had two paeditricians asking me if they could collect blood from all three of my ASD children. At the time I did not think too much of their request. However, the longer I have pondered over this, I can not but help ask myself why is it, that my second son and myself do not have ASD? Do we have a gene that the others do not? Does a gene in our body react differently to how it does in theres? I know there is no answer to these questions but it arouses my curiosity.

 

I personally do not believe there is any connection between MMR and autism, but this os my own personnal view. I used to say there was a connection with MMR with my eldest, but in hindsight I no longer believe this to be the case. Also as I watched my other children develop, because of my past experience with my eldest, I saw traits of Autism from a much earlier age.

 

I personally believe there is a genetic connection. I am fascinated by this subject, and I suppose even more so, because out or our own family, there is just the two of us who have "escaped" being on the spectrum. I dont think "escape" is the right word, but I cant think of the correct one.

 

I am determined to find out if the paeditricians concerned asked for bloods to be examined/ taken again with a specific purpose in their minds.

 

Anyways, just thought I would add my input.

[sharonv]

Hello,

 

Does anybody know wether Prozac could be a cause of autism?

 

I was on this for a short time during my pregnancy with my daughter.

 

Just keep thinking wether this could have been the cause.

 

Sharon

[lauramissi]

hello.My 3 year and 10 months boy,he has motor regression with cerebellar features,having test for several diseases,he is losing skills and his sitting and balance is bad,and in the last few months he is having autistic and sensory problems,doctor said is autism due too his others problems,I know my son autism is secondary to some other problem,but regarding regression in autism I think is all genetic and no due to mmr ,in kids that have regressive autism as their main diagnosis,they are not born with it but they are born with a genetic metabolic problem ,that slowly damage the part of the brain to do with social skills etc,that is why children are normal until they are toddler,because their brain ,neurons are damage slowly ,is a bit like Rett Syndrome ,but they don't know why.Regarding the incrising level of children diagnosed as autism I think is because before some children whre diagnosed as mentally retarded , behaviour problems.etc..I think that a child can have neurologic damage from a vaccine,if they get the full illness after the vaccine,like they get what looks like meascles or rubella,rash,fever,vomiting or really sick ,etc.and they should take child to hospital as an infecction , virus can damage the brain,but a child can get brain damage from the meascles ,rubella virus if they get infected from another person too without being vaccineted .That is why in the third world so many children get brain damage,disabled or die because of lack of vaccines and problems fighting this childhood illness.And that is why children with low inmune system don't have any vaccines because they can develop the full illness just with the very few viruses in the vaccine.,as they can not fight these viruses back and these multiply in the body,getting the illness.

[andrwg]

Hallo!

 

I was born in October 1962 with congenital rubella syndrome caused by rubella during my mother's second month of pregnancy.

 

I have Asperger's Syndrome.

 

Best regards,

Andreas

Edited June 12, 2005 by andrwg

[Elouise]

Looks at children, looks at self and immeadiate family....looks at wider family.

 

In our case...Herditry...the genes got out and its those who are 'normal' who are the odd ones out in our family.

 

Any who go on to have a diaognosis of autism are obvious from birth.

[Amanda32]

I have just received a letter from medical records about my late father. It says they reviewed them by a qualified doctor and he found no specific mention about ASD. There was no evidence to indicate my father suffered from or ever treated for any similar conditions. They do not believe it would of been in anyone's interest to provide me with access myself, as it is so easy to misinterpret the content.

Well I tried to get information it doesn't matter anyway at least I have some answers about him.

Take care

Amanda

Edited June 17, 2005 by Amanda32

[mandyque]

I voted for birth problems, although it came to light sometime afterwards that my ex husbands cousin has a son with Aspergers syndrome and more recently another cousins son has been diagnosed with an ASD. So I think it was maybe a mixture of the two, and her birth caused her autism to be much more severe than that of the other relatives.

 

When I was in labour I was left in severe pain for 36 hours. No pain relief worked for me and dd was in deep transverse arrest (basically laid across my stomach instead of head down as a baby should be during birth). She was jammed against my coccyx which caused unbearable pain but they did little to help. They tried to get her out using ventouse, then forceps but after 36 hours they finally gave in to the fact that she was stuck. I was rushed in for an emergency C-section and when she was finally born she was battered black and blue all over her head and face from the ventouse and forceps. Her head was a mess, I am convinced that must have caused damage to her brain, babies skulls are so soft.

 

So in essence I believe that she suffered brain damage during birth, and coupled with the genetic links, she got autism.

[Alphazebra]

My mum was in labour for a rediculous amount of time with me. So long in fact that they sent my dad home because it wasn't worth him waiting any longer. He had time to go home, sort him self out, go get fish and chips for dinner (Mum had gone into labour around breakfast time) and just as he sat down in front of the football to eat, he got called back to the hospital. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with my AS, but it certainly seems to be possible. I mean if the first time I get sent out to meet people it takes me a day to sort myself out, what more can you say. ;-)

[Melba]

Hi ,

 

This is an interesting post for me as we are just starting out on our journey - so while I try not to ponder 'why?', I just can't help myself:

 

My son was born by 'urgent caesarean' and I have to say they did seem to have trouble getting him out and he was quiet for a long time before he yelled - however he scored ok on his Apgar....

 

On day 1 of his life I passed out while breastfeeding and dropped him on the floor (the thought of this still makes me sick)

 

While pregnant I had a MASSIVE filling done on a broken tooth - I wish I'd known about the mercury thing because I would have had the damned thing taken out instead.

 

However, it has to be said that both my husband and I do have certain 'traits' and wonder if the two of us combined have made this unique little chap.

 

He walked at 8 months, which was scarily early, everything seemed ok until about 18 months, he didnt have any real reaction or significant change at the time of the MMR (which I gave him at 15 months when there was a measles scare in his nursery - his aunty is a nurse in ICU and had seen some fatal measles cases which scared me)

 

I ate tons of fish during my pregnancy, didnt drink or smoke or eat anything I shouldnt (there werent any warnings on fish at that point!)

 

At the moment my fave theory is the build up of mercury in the food chain etc. combined with my filling and maybe the vaccine if it had Thimerisol in. I'm told the vaccinations in the UK didnt have mercury in? However, as a complete sidetrack I used to do some voluntary work and memberships with various whale and dolphin organisations and we used to think the build up of mercury in pilot whales was what was affecting their sonar navigation and getting them beached - I think I just cant bear the thought that it was because I dropped him or gave him the MMR......