Recognising tones of voice etc..

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

I really didn't know what to name this post .

 

My son has great difficulty recognising if he is being 'told off' or if someone is just

telling him not to do something.

His reaction is VERY extreme, a few examples:

 

A lady on the checkout said to him to mind his fingers in the conveyor belt,

he immediately through clenched teeth started to say 'she is evil, I'm gonna punch that

evil lady, she's cross with me'.

 

At our local group, one of the mums told him not to keep switching the lights on and off,

she said it in a very calm tone, he ran into the middle of the room and started shouting at

the top of his voice that she is evil and a killer and he is not going there again,

he has gone on about this for weeks and weeks, it keeps popping into his head and triggers

him again.

 

If someone says the slightest thing about not to do something etc.. he really reacts very

verbally and very loudly, he also NEVER forgets it and it plays on his mind.

 

I have tried to help him recognise the signs of when someone is 'cross' ie.. they may speak

louder and their face screws up etc.. and also tried to give him some more appropriate responses,

ie.. I said that if he is getting angry with someone, then instead of saying they are evil etc..

he should say that he is feeling very angry with them etc...

But he tells me that it comes into his mind and he cant stop it, obviously he has learnt this as a

way to show his anger.

 

He has real difficulty regulating his emotions, and will fly into a verbal rage within a split second,

especially if he thinks he is being told off!

The words he uses to express his anger are very below the belt, and alot of them are picked up

off the kids tv, he picks them out and uses them all at once.

He is even saying things like 'I hope you die' even though I know he doesn't really understand

the meaning of this, it really grates you down hearing it day in day out.

 

If anyone has been through this, or has any ideas how to help him out, I would really appreciate

your replies.

 

This is not a new thing, it's been happening for a couple of years, but it is getting worse and he

has many outbursts during the day, and as you can imagine when we are out and about, we

are a bundle of nerves hoping someone doesn't say the wrong thing to him.

 

Up until a couple of years ago, he was sooooo passive and never reacted this way,

he does have over a two year delay in the understanding of receptive language as well.

 

Hubby and I are so laid back people that we rarely get really cross, I'm wondering now that we

may have made it worse for him in that respect, if my hubby tells him not to do something my son

really verbally goes for him in a big way. My son said that dad is angry because his voice is deep!

I tried explaining that mens voices are deeper and a little louder than womens, and one day his will

be like that, and by saying that I put my foot in it, he doesn't want a voice like that!

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Brook

[Viper]

Brook I know exactly what you mean. Ben does the same thing. It is one of the worst things about him. If I so much as say, "Be careful" I get a torrent of abuse. He tells me to shut up, calls me all sorts of nasty names (but never swears) his latest one being fat head.

 

I lost a friend over it. Her husband saw him in the road and said "does your mum know your out here?" Ben shouted at him "shut up you idiot, leave me alone" It caused all sorts of problems that I wont go into here but the end result was we don't really speak any more.

 

He will shout at anyone no matter what they say. If it is telling him to stop or be careful he just blows. I watch these programmes that say get down to their level and say in a firm voice, "Stop doing that it's not right" or words to that effect but I can't do that with Ben. He just screams abuse in my face the whole time I am speaking. He wont stop until I stop talking, so I get nowhere.

 

Every day we have this. My girls come home from school and it starts. He wants them to do something, they don't want to so he starts hitting them or shouting at them. I have to intervene or he will hurt one of them. (he attacked Abba, the other day, and caused a nasty scratch right near her eye when he grabbed her face) And as soon as it starts and I tell him to stop or calm down, he starts screaming his nasty insults. "Leave me alone you nasty fat head, poo face" etc.

 

After saying all that, I can't help you at all except to say you are not alone. I would be interested to know if anyone else has this problem. Or is it something they are putting in the water around here?

[elainem]

Hi,

 

my 5 yr old asd ds used to do this too, as his verbal understanding has got better this problem has all but disappeared. I used to have a major problem if telling off his twin, M could not distinguish who was being told off and became distraught - made disciplining his brother a bit tricky!

 

He too also used to shout out all sorts, a bit better now. He once said he was going in to the quiet room at nursery and would kill all the children.

 

Elaine

[Zemanski]

you could be describing Com, Brook

 

it started quite suddenly but he goes on and on about people being evil and never drops it - the one good aspect of prosopagnosia is he can't recognise the person again though

 

for Com it is a 'teen' thing and related to all the problems he's been having in high school

 

it is gradually getting better but when he's stressed it's really depressing to deal with

 

Zemanski

[Tez]

Do you think this is related to visual perception as well as tone of voice? A also has a thing about calling people evil if they tell him off or disagree with him. Always has done and it's no better now that he's a teenager. I remember when he was at Infant school he would insist that his teacher was evil and no amount of talking to him would convince him otherwise. This teacher was loved by all the other children. Many years on, he still often tells me that he has nightmares about her and that she was truly evil, it was in her eye (never eyes, always eye) everytime she told him off and her whole face would distort. I am convinced that for our child sound, emotion and vision are often interlinked, their perception is just different. A tells me that people's faces will often blur, distort or disappear, it's all part and parcel of his prosopagnosia, but he insists that their attitude, character and intentions affect the way in which this happens. I don't profess to understand it all, but now A is feeling able to explain things to me, I'm beginning to see that these situations are often more complex than we originally think.

[Zemanski]

it's definitely all linked.

 

Com used to approach everyone as a friend at primary school and into the first year of high school because he didn't know any better, then, after severe bullying in Y8 he learned that not everyone is a friend and now all people are approached with suspicion and one mistake, usually misinterpreted completely by Com, and they are enemy. With peers they are now automatically enemies and by nature evil. He can't see which are which so he generalises one way or the other, and his experiences at school have ensured that it's the negative view he takes because he feels less vulnerable that way.

 

I also think that his lack of facial perception means he can't quite get the nuances in the voice as they are not backed up by the visual clues from the face.

 

Zemanski

[DaisyProudfoot]

Good grief Brook you've just described Martin to a T!

 

What we've found is teaching Martin anger management techniques such as counting to 10 and walking away, stimming which he does by playing the guitar, rewarding him when we know he's done his best to keep calm.

 

Martin swears like a trooper, I don't know where he gets the language from, my guess is the internet and the older boys' music.

 

I've found the best way to prevent Martin from blurting out is to be aware of what people say to him. I immediately put my hand up like a stop sign and say "calm, calm, calm" very slowly to him. I try to get this in before the 6 seconds it usually takes for him to react to what the person has said. When I say "calm" I breathe very deeply so he will subconsciously copy me. It does work believe me!

 

I have never bothered with the facial and verbal signs as I really don't think he knows what they mean. All I know is that if someone over-reacts then he does too.

 

You can get coloured PECs cards like a red one for stop, another for wait and they seem to work well for some kids too.

[oracle]

If they do not understand tone of voice then it really does not matter how something is said. It's the words that are used that matter and if one of our children feels threatened by them then they are going to react. Well that's 'my' perception'. Matthew is just like Brooks son and he has little understanding of tone of voice. I know this as he often asks Terry and I 'Are you angry with me?' 'Are you two fighting?' Terry and I find it difficult to have a conversation as he is always asking questions. 'Is this a nice conversation?' 'Are you happy?' So I have decided that tone of voice is not the issues it's the words used and how they have been received. Matthew finds someone just looking as him threatening never mind being spoken to. It's a hard nut to crack and I ain't cracked it yet

 

Oracle

[Paula]

Youve described my son also Brook down to a tee.

 

He was also very passive untill this last 6 months.Ive put it down to being a pubesent boy hes 12.

 

 

Last night id to endure a torrent of verbal abuse simply because i kinda insisted he showered.Its been over a week and he was a bit whiffy.

 

H e screamed,stomed shouted he was gonna kil me with a knife,told me to go away and leave ,said why didnt i die on and on it went.

 

 

 

What could i do.Inside i was so so upset but i stayed calm and said please dont speak to mum like that it makes me said.

 

To which he yelled GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

15 minutes later he calmed down and rather sheeplishly said sorry mum for being horrid.I just said ok i still love yer.

 

Thats all you can do i guess .

[DaisyProudfoot]

What Carole says is very true.

 

Martin often went through a stage when the toddler would make a noise and Martin would ask: "Is that a laugh mum, or a cry? I can't tell the difference"

 

He still can't. If he's tickling the little one I have to get him to stop because he can't recognise when the tickle becomes painful, we've had to teach him playing techniques so he isn't so rough. It's a bit easier now the little one is beginning to talk but it's a long road.

[Brook]

Thanks all,

 

I knew I could rely on you to let me know I'm not alone.

 

Brook

[weelewy]

hi brook, im kirsty and new to here, my wee boy is only 3 but he dosent communicate well he used to have bad tantrums when anyone spoke to him but he kinda came out it himself, he cant really read facial expreessions and i think thats why they dont know how to take what you say as they are more visual than most.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Add me to the list!!! My 4.5 year old son is EXACTLY the same. If someone even looks at him, he can fly into a rage telling them not to look at him or speak to him. Even if I'm simply asking him to do something, he flies off the handle telling me I'm nasty or evil and that he hates me. I'll be watching this post with interest, because I haven't a clue how to tackle this one.

 

Best wishes

 

Caroline.

[zaman]

My son is the same, but will cry sometimes in response (although he also has his fair share of getting angry). He had stuck his arm out of the open car window yesterday, and i asked him very calmly to put it back in the car as it was dangerous. He burst into tears and said that nobody likes him. We were going to school last week and someone had let their dog poo right outside the entrance, I only saw it at the last minute and (gently) pulled his arm to get him to avoid treading in it at the same time that I said 'be careful, there's dog poo in front of you'. He burst into tears (I think at the suddeness of the movement and the unexpectedness of it), and nothing I said afterwards would calm him. I had a note home in his contact book that day to say that he's been upset all day becuase I had told him off!

 

So when I do tell him off, he goes into meltdown. Which means that I try not to tell him off, which means that his sister then gives me the 'you let him, that's not fair, etc'.

 

But I do wonder how much of it is linked to the fact that he speaks without inflection himself - perhaps something isn't processing this stuff? Que Ian Jordan?

[Eva]

My son doesn't listen to the words I use when I'm telling him something, just my tone of voice. He interrupts the whole time, telling me not to use that angry voice but a happy voice and to calm down and relax, (it's very irritating to be told by a 5 year old to relax!), and last night he also suggested I take a deep breath.

 

The thing is, whatever I've trying to tell him doesn't get through at all because of his stress over my tone of voice. Sigh. It's pretty hard to speak in a nice pleasant tone when your child has been a little...searching for appropriate word...horror.

 

Eva

[NaneysMum]

Like Zaman - my daughter dosen't get abusive (thankfully, (sadly?)) She gets upset / afraid. She repeats "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and actually cowers. You'd think she was used to being beaten with a stick for the slightest misdemeanor. Her class teacher has remarked on it when he has been trying to help by reminding her of one of the (endless) things she forgets. "Remember to take a new page" said calmly and kindly gets "sorry, sorry, sorry" and a cringe.

 

Anything not 110% full positive seems to be interpreded as raging anger. Her brother spills his juice "Oh no!" - "sorry, sorry, sorry". "CAR!" as she steps into the road - "sorry, sorry, sorry". I try to keep my voice and actions calm but I couldn't, and probably shouldn't, be totally unemotional. I also try to explain "I'm not angry, I needed to warn you and I was afraid" but it dosen't seem to make any difference.

 

She also asks me endlessly if I'm happy. Sometimes I'm happy at the beginning but having to unclench my teeth to reassure her later! I say "Sure I'm happy". I think "HAPPY!! B****y HAPPY!!!!!!!!! WHO COULD BE HAPPY WITH THIS TO CONTEND WITH". But I guess I should be glad if my happiness is important to her.

[Brook]

Naneysmum,

 

A couple of years ago my son was also like this, he would say sorry for everything,

I remember taking him into the post office and he was touching the weighing scales,

I said not to touch them, he started repeating I'm sorry mum and he looked really

scared, I felt a bit embarrased as I'm sure the people in the que thought that he must

really go through it!! he has never even had so much as a tap on the hand .

 

If he heard a child cry, he would immediately rush up to them and start saying sorry,

this caused alot of probs, as the parents would arrive to see him apologising for this

crying child and think he had hurt them .

 

But I must say, this all started when he began school, he would even come home from

school saying 'I dont wanna be a bad person mum', it didn't matter how much we told him

he was definitely not a bad person, his self esteem was very low.

 

Since taking him out of school, his confidence has grown, and if I'm honest we initially

were pleased with a bit of back chat, as he was sooooo withdrawn at the time,

but now he has gone completely the opposite way and some of the things that come

out of his mouth are slightly OTT to say the least .

 

I can remember saying to the school that just because he is soooo quiet we didn't want

his difficulties overlooked, well that certainly changed.

 

He starts special school soon, and although I'm kinda pleased in a way that he can now

voice his anger, I'm rather apprehensive about the content of his verbal reactions .

 

Brook

[gladysmay]

Hi, this is true of my son also, as a small child at primary school he seemed to think he was always in trouble for something and was interpreting even the mildest of correction or guidance as a nasty act toward him, he would run away from school and tell me he hated his teacher and would kill her or maybe it would be a boy who had been mean to him, he just couldnt get over others behaviour toward him, he was bullied but he took ages to calm down and even now remembers exactly who said or did what to him, now I challenge his accusations toward me, firmly but calmly in a logical order and it seems to help.

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

I know this is a very old thread, but we still have these same issues, just wondering if anyone else has either found a strategy that works or if anyone else is experiencing similar.

 

Thanks

 

Brook