Very UPSET - what do I do?

[KATHY BLAIR]

I have a seven year old daughter with Asperger Syndrome, who has been assessed as having high IQ. She has been lacknig in self confidence which has really improved this year.

 

Part of the reason for this was because an achievement book was implemented in school to note her achievements. All year hae teacher has been commenting to her on how "exceelent" her numeracy skills are and this has always been an area where she has excelled.

 

The class she is in is a very competitive class for such a young age and a big hype was gathering around the school reports. The children are graded for attainment, but I don't know whether this is best on tests or generally. In previous years she has always had As for maths and science and art.

 

We got her report - the grades are A=above average; B=average;C=below average.

The report was mostly Bs and I could see her little face drop - she got A in science only. She has always had A in maths and her teacher has been telling her allyear how super she is and she is so disappointed. To be honest, so am I, although not showing her this. I have spent the morning crying - in her comment the teacher wrote:

 

"Rachael can recall number facts quite quickly within 20, and is excellent at answering number family questions verbally.I am really pleased with her progress in maths, she has a good understanding of all thetopics we have covered, and her test scores were high. Rachale is able to complete problem solving activites quite independnetly. She has a wonderfully logical thought process which is an asset to her!"

 

But she awarded her B= average. All Rachael sees is the B -I have tried to reassure her by reading this to her and telling her how well she has done. But I know she is really disappointed.

 

I am wondering if I should speak to the teacher, and tell her what has happened. She is young and inexperienced and I don't want to upset her, but I don't want Rachael's confidence to take a knock.

 

I know I should be happy she is doing so well, but you know what these children are like and how hard they can be on themselves. We don't push her and have taken a laid back approach with school. But i feel so disappointed for her. To top it all, I know they are all going to be talking about what they got. The little boy up the street from us called me over and told me got 8 As and asked hpw Rachael did (they are in thes ame class).

 

More than anything I am confused about her progress - they are telling me how wonderfully she has done and yet her grades are down on last year. What do I do?

[phasmid]

The only thing you can do is ask the teacher. Having been in a similar position in the past it is what I have done and, if you don't agree with the reasons, say so on the reply slip that normally comes with the report.

[baddad]

I have a seven year old daughter with Asperger Syndrome, who has been assessed as having high IQ. She has been lacknig in self confidence which has really improved this year.

 

Part of the reason for this was because an achievement book was implemented in school to note her achievements. All year hae teacher has been commenting to her on how "exceelent" her numeracy skills are and this has always been an area where she has excelled.

 

The class she is in is a very competitive class for such a young age and a big hype was gathering around the school reports. The children are graded for attainment, but I don't know whether this is best on tests or generally. In previous years she has always had As for maths and science and art.

 

We got her report - the grades are A=above average; B=average;C=below average.

The report was mostly Bs and I could see her little face drop - she got A in science only. She has always had A in maths and her teacher has been telling her allyear how super she is and she is so disappointed. To be honest, so am I, although not showing her this. I have spent the morning crying - in her comment the teacher wrote:

 

"Rachael can recall number facts quite quickly within 20, and is excellent at answering number family questions verbally.I am really pleased with her progress in maths, she has a good understanding of all thetopics we have covered, and her test scores were high. Rachale is able to complete problem solving activites quite independnetly. She has a wonderfully logical thought process which is an asset to her!"

 

But she awarded her B= average. All Rachael sees is the B -I have tried to reassure her by reading this to her and telling her how well she has done. But I know she is really disappointed.

 

I am wondering if I should speak to the teacher, and tell her what has happened. She is young and inexperienced and I don't want to upset her, but I don't want Rachael's confidence to take a knock.

 

I know I should be happy she is doing so well, but you know what these children are like and how hard they can be on themselves. We don't push her and have taken a laid back approach with school. But i feel so disappointed for her. To top it all, I know they are all going to be talking about what they got. The little boy up the street from us called me over and told me got 8 As and asked hpw Rachael did (they are in thes ame class).

 

More than anything I am confused about her progress - they are telling me how wonderfully she has done and yet her grades are down on last year. What do I do?

 

Hi Kathy <'> -

Don't know if I'm missing something here, but she HAS done well and B is a heck of an achievement. Why should it be a knock to her confidence that she is achieving exactly the results that somebody her age should be achieving?

The little boy over the road got 8 A's - whoopee do!! There will ALWAYS be kids smarter than her, ALWAYS be kids less smart than her, and that's just the way it is. What's really important is the kid BEHIND the results, how they behave towards others, how they value individuals regardless of league tables and IQ scores, & how they 'play the game' when they don't win...

 

One of the things that many parents of ASD kids have to face every day is the kind of intellectual snobbery that leaves their kids on the outside looking in, and it hurts. Badly...

 

As for speaking to the teacher, I'm not quite sure what the purpose would be? if she was to 'adjust' Rachaels results artificially, you could actually be setting her up for a much bigger fall later on, especially if her abilities do continue to fluctuate.

 

For most kids, (according to research) there is a predetermined 'peak' they will achieve... whether they get to this peak slowly or quickly the 'peak' is the same in either case. You don't end up with 'smarter' kids, you just get them sooner! Of course, some people never reach their 'peak', speaking as a huge 'under-achiever' myself, I'd say Nut's to being clever, I'd rather be happy!!

 

I know all of the above would be difficult to explain to a seven year old, but IMHO your time would be better spent trying to do that than worrying about how to fix the negative impact of a less than perfect result... Chances are that, no matter how bright she might be, she will (like the rest of us) have much greater experience of the latter than the former, and how she responds to that is more likely to be relevevant to her overall state of emotional well-being.

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD <'>

[KATHY BLAIR]

Rachael, because of her Aspergers, has the opinion, if she is not the best at everything she tries then she has failed. We have had huge problems with this in the past - mainly surrounding reading. It gets to the stage that if she cannot do it 100% she will not do it. The achievemnet is the motivation and reward for doing it - if she is not going to achieve 100%, there is no motivation. We have been to CAMHs and so on and this has been picked up in ed psych reports and so on. Anxiety levels around school are very high

 

Because she sees the visual representation of the A,B,C thing, wherein A is perfection that is what she wants. She knows that she is as smart, if not smarter as the other kids, but finds it hard to accept that she does not perform as well. She has a significant discrepancy between her preformance and verbal IQ. We try to gear as much as we can to allowing experience success.

 

It is hard as a parent to see a child of her age bieng so hard on herself - and it makes you react to every situation. I know we should try to get her accept that she cannot always be top, but at the same time the teacher has been telling her how fantastic she is all year and also in the report - but the grade, which she sees as the yardstick for her acheivement don't reflect this.

[Andie]

I have to agree with the other people Rachael is doing well that is what you need to concern yourself with. My 8 year old girl also has AS and like you is very hard on herself that the tears when she does not come the all important first is soul destroying for both you and the child.

 

But in recent months with the guidence at school with an absolutely wonderful teacher (I hope the year 4 teacher is going to be just as good. Wishful thinking) megan is beginning to learn that first is not that important and that doing your best is good enough.

 

Rachael has great school results and that should be applauded and give her a pat on the back. I know that it is hard to deal with their insecurities and getting them to understand that there will always someone better but I find that constant reassurance sometimes (not always) is one of the best ways to go.

 

[oracle]

When did C become below avearge? C is a pass in a GCSE unless I am way out of touch here.

 

Oracle

[KATHY BLAIR]

This is the schools form af grading. I have to say that i don't reaaly agree with grading children in attainment at this age. I have read some canadian report cards and have found them to be much more informative.

 

I have really rewarded her for her brilliant results! She responds to reward very well and she has put in so much effort this year - we took a special trip to ToysRUs to reenforce this!

 

It has just left her feeling a little confused - I am meeting thisyear and next years teacher together on Wednesday and may discuss a different, less "attainment" based assessment for her in the furture, which is more individualised!

[Tez]

Hi Kathy,

 

Whilst I agree absolutely with what everyone else says, that your daughter is doing well, and that it is the child behind the results that matter; I also understand your point about your daughter's feelings. We have the same problem with A. He will only attempt something if he can do something well, perfection is the aim, and anything short of that is failure. He misses out on so many opportunities because of his definition of failure and fear of it. I understand that this is common amoung children on the spectrum. Got to say that this is very much part of my make-up also, so I really do understand. Being older than your daughter, A has worked out his own methods of judging his performance and now won't look at performance indicators from teachers, who he feels get it wrong in any case. How he ranks compared to others is of little concern to him, it's how he rates according to his belief of how well he should be doing. Failure. which in his eyes would be a B if he's been being told he's good at something, is not an option. He would rather not attempt something, than attempt it and not achieve at a high standard. Doing his best is not good enough and no matter how hard you try to persuade him that it is, he will not accept it.

 

For us the solution to this problem is to ask the teachers to stop putting grades on his work and reports and to give just comments instead. This really took some doing but we had a letter from his Consultant at CAHMS expressing the same views to back us up. Those comments should be fair and accurate and reflect what is actually happening and give advice for moving forward. So for instance, A produced a really good piece of work. What was particularly good about it was....... To move forward and improve upon this work even further he should........A should be really pleased with what he has achieved, it is an extremely high standard of work for a child of his age.

 

In the meantime <'> <'> for you and your daughter. I understand how you are both feeling.

[Zemanski]

I understand where this is coming from - Com has it all over his reports from specialists - 'marked sensitivity to failure' -and it is a huge problem for him.

 

At 5 Com decided that because he couldn't write perfectly he wouldn't write at all His teacher had to stop all marking and that carried on for 4 years before he could accept anything but total praise.

 

At 14 if he gets less than an A grade or doesn't come top in something he knows he's good at it causes major distress and there is little we can do about it, last term he only got a level 6 in his science after getting level 8 the time before and, even though his was the top grade and he was told that in class, he took over a week to come down from it.

 

kids do have to learn that they can't always be top and can't always acheive perfection but it is very hard for some of ours. Com has got better over the years but he will never find it easy I think.

 

Zemanski

[mum22boys]

To me she sounds as if she is doing very well. I would be very pleased with a B grade.

 

My situation with m is very different. he struggles at school and unfortunatley believes he is always right, not the teacher and that he knows more than her. How she manages to teach him anything is beyond me. If he were to recieve a low grade he would just believe she were wrong.

 

I think you are very lucky to have such an intelliegent child. To me I would think so what if she didn't get an A. She did excellent to achieve a B.

 

I agree with Baddad. She will never be first at everything and yes our kids have a hard job realising this but I see no purpose for you going to the teacher about it. She needs to understand that B is very good. I know it will take a long time for her to understand this but it is better than her grades being adjusted and her facing a knock back in the future.

 

mum22boys

[Pippin]

I think you do need to speak with her teacher on this one. Her marks seem out of balance with what you've been told by teachers in the past and out of balance with her previous marks, in Maths especially. It doesn't matter that she has AS (apart from exacerbating her response to her report)......if her marks have dropped then some investigation is needed.

[barefoot wend]

This is difficult - we ended up going down the 'comments only' route but were still stymied as our son's expectations, and pressure he put on himself, were too great.

 

I think you should ask the teacher not to praise so highly in class if this is not then to be reflected in grades at report time.

[baddad]

Hi again kathy -

 

Just thought there might be a need to qualify my earlier post. I do understand how difficult it can be to motivate kids who have a 'top or nothing' take on school - have one myself! - and the explosions we've had over things he's not so good at have been massive, but none of those problems have been reduced by reinforcing that goal orientated perspective. What HAS worked is to concentrate on one specific 'target' than a generalised 'grade' common to all.

Best (probably just because it's the most recent) example to come to mind would be his writing ability (handwriting) which is miles behind his peers, and which, as a consequence, he'd pretty much given up on completely... Rather than trying to tackle this in school, where he's ALWAYS going to be making comparisons to his classmates work, we agreed to a small, daily writing task at home. He will come up with a simple paragraph of four or five words ('I love Rayman Three' was one last week) which he will then write in his BEST handwriting 5 times. He is hugely motivated by this (at the moment) because he can see - and takes great pleasure in - picking the 'best' of the 5 lines, and he doesn't make the negative judgements he would have made if he was struggling to compete with his peers. ALL children are 'success motivated' - all adults too, come to that - and some more so than others. The problem is when the definition of 'success' becomes so rigidly defined that non-achievement equals failure... In Japan a few years ago teenage kids were lobbing themselves off of tall buildings if their exam results weren't up to scratch.

 

One final thought: In your original post you said that the school environment is 'very competitive' generally, and that there was a 'lot of hype' surrounding the results... Personally, I think that sounds like the last kind of thing she needs, and I'd be doing as much at home as i could in your position to challenge rather than reinforce those sorts of value judgements.

 

L&P

 

BD

[KATHY BLAIR]

We don't pressure Rachael in anyway and are extremely relaxed about school and achievement!

 

Though I suppose there is a balance and we are left wondering have we tipped it too much the other way!

 

She expects to achieve - but is not motivated to do the work. Our take has always been to not press her to do extra work at home and we havebeen reassured all year that she is more than getting by without being put under pressure at home. I suppose that is why she and we are disappointed that her grades have dropped off. We do not want the teacher to think that getting by is enough because she has Asperger's or that she is doing well enough for a child with AS. In the long run that will lead to self esteem issues. For her to feel that she is not fulfilling her potenial has and will do harm - that is my concern. I feel that because of the mixed messages I havebeen receiving all year I don't know what is realistic, and i feel itis not fair that she has been told how super she is all year, but that is not reflected in the grade she has got.

 

She has seen some of the children from her class today and asked them how they did. We do everything we can do take pressure off her and spend untold time on teliing about all the ways other than academically that sheis loved - she puts the pressure on herself and at 7 does not even understand that she does this, never mind how to not do it.

[annie]

Hi Kathy,

 

When my son was 8, we were told that he was 'gifted'. If I'm honest, it was probably one of the most unhelpful 'labels' that he has been given over the years (he's 16 now and AS/ADHD). Over the years, teachers and to some extent us (because he wasn't diagnosed with AS until he was 11), were misguided by the fact that here was a child that was academically more than able, but the fact that he didn't have basic skills was put in the background. Alex's self-esteem suffered badly . Looking back, he was being set up to fail because of his and everybody elses's expectations. Things came to a head and we took him out of school a couple of years ago. He has since been in an very small education setting where there are no pressures on him and he is achieving now (he has told us this himself too). His self-esteem has risen and he is happy for the first time in his life. He isn't getting 8+ GCSE's anymore, he's only taking 4, but the important thing is that he is happy.

 

Sorry I can't give you any real advice, but having been there too and come out the other side I just wanted to let you know what I've learned having been through it too.

 

Annie

xx

[phasmid]

Kathy this is not unusual with our children. Phas jr expected to be able to draw like (insert ANY famous artiist here) and when he couldn't he would go ballistic! It took a few years to get him to realise that his drawings were pretty good in their own right even if they didn't look like a museum piece. Like with all his other work HE set himself very high standards, set them for others too when working in groups (but thats a whole new thread!), and could very rarely meet them. It can be heartbreaking to watch a child 'fail' when the work they are producing is pretty darn good to everyone except themselves. As I said in my first post, talk to her teacher and ask her to explain why the apparent discrepancy between verbal and written feedback, if the explanation is a reasonable one fine, if not challenge it. But I suspect you may have a few years of this to put up with.

[baddad]

We don't pressure Rachael in anyway and are extremely relaxed about school and achievement!

 

Though I suppose there is a balance and we are left wondering have we tipped it too much the other way!

 

She expects to achieve - but is not motivated to do the work. Our take has always been to not press her to do extra work at home and we havebeen reassured all year that she is more than getting by without being put under pressure at home. I suppose that is why she and we are disappointed that her grades have dropped off. We do not want the teacher to think that getting by is enough because she has Asperger's or that she is doing well enough for a child with AS. In the long run that will lead to self esteem issues. For her to feel that she is not fulfilling her potenial has and will do harm - that is my concern. I feel that because of the mixed messages I havebeen receiving all year I don't know what is realistic, and i feel itis not fair that she has been told how super she is all year, but that is not reflected in the grade she has got.

 

She has seen some of the children from her class today and asked them how they did. We do everything we can do take pressure off her and spend untold time on teliing about all the ways other than academically that sheis loved - she puts the pressure on herself and at 7 does not even understand that she does this, never mind how to not do it.

 

Hi again kathy - I think you've hit the nail on your head there when you mention 'balance', and i do wonder if perhaps gearing 'motivation' to achievement has unintentionally endorsed rather than detracted from the pressure she puts herself under. You say you have been reassured all year that she has been more than getting by, but then express your disappointment that her grades have dropped off and say 'we don't want her teacher to think that getting by is enough for a child with AS'...

I agree that negative judgements BASED on her AS will be damaging to self-esteem, but adding negative judgements about her academic performance is going to make that worse, not better.

You mention 'mixed mesages' - that she has been told all year how super she is, but that this is not reflected in her grade. Two things come to mind: If you/she had been told all year she was underachieving and then received a b grade would you be happy with the school feedback? And what is wrong with a B grade? Why is a B under-achieving? Maybe A's every time IS unrealistic - even for a 'gifted' child

 

I think your final sentence is the most important one:

 

"she puts the pressure on herself and at 7 does not even understand that she does this, never mind how to not do it."

 

For my money, the most important lesson for her to be learning right now IS how to understand and not do it (That would seem far more important a piece of education than getting her grades back into the A stream), and it does seem that at the moment your are yourself focussing on the negatives of academic 'failure' (which a B isn't anyway ) rather than the positives of personal achievement in recognising she's done her best. I'll always push my son for '8 - 10' for effort, regardless of his academic results. If he's putting in that effort, I'm happy with a 'c'. If he's not putting in that effort, then an A's no good either, except as a judgement value for people who are knocking their socks off in effort and still struggling - and I definitely don't want him making those sort of value judgements, however clever he might be. There's enough people making those sorts of judgements anyway - and quite often for no good reason whatsoever people with ASD's are the victims of them.

 

L&P

 

BD

[curra]

Kathy,

 

I understand your daughter's situation too well because my son has been similar.

 

After getting A's and awards in mostly everything all through the primary years (except Maths which he simply can't grasp), he doesn't get more than a B in secondary school. He even got a couple of below average marks in his last report which was very demoralising for him. I sometimes think that his teachers think that he should count his blessings getting B's, being autistic, but what makes me wonder is why has there been such a big change in his marks between primary and secondary school. He was also an AS child before... M is also a perfectionist who says all the time that if he can't get the best marks then he has failed and gets frustrated. Trying to make him see that a B or C is also success has been useless, he simply won't accept it. As a result his self-esteem is very low and he has lost motivation to learning.

 

I think this is the point (low self-esteem and loss of motivation) that we should be mostly concerned about with our AS children. It takes more time for them to learn that their success is not measured by an A, B or a C because it's hard for them to see the bigger picture and to be flexible about things. I think that it is important to talk to the teachers about it, not to change her grades but to help her understand what she needs to do, and to investigate why her marks have been going down. Sometimes a simple comment on her work saying what was good and what still needs to be improved is very important to children with low self-esteem and high expectations. I also think that praise at home works fantastic, however, when children get to secondary school, school marks are more important and they know it.

 

You are lucky to have such an intelligent daughter. Eventually she will be able to accept that she can succeed without always being the first. There are some stories and cases of famous people with AS that could help you with this.

 

Many <'> <'> for you and your daughter

 

Curra

[KATHY BLAIR]

I just want to make it clear that we at no time have geared motivation towards achievement, this is part and parcel of her condition and something we have tried very hard to steer her away from. In saying that I don't want the teacher to think that "getting by" is enough for a child with asoergers, I haven't expressed myself very well.

 

What I am tryin to say is that the teacher may think that Rachael, as a child with Aspergers is doing well, because she has aspergers! She may not be looking beyond the Aspergers - I want to be sure that she has not been praising and so on because that is all she expects from a statemented child, with Aspergers. Rachael's statement has never been because of any "learning difficulty", but because of the difficulties arising as a result of the impact of her Aspergers on her ability to learn.

 

I should have said earlier that this is her teachers first post since qualifying and that it is her 3rd teacher this year. Whether a "B" is a good grade or not, it has fallen below the grades that she normally achieves. Once Rachael's motivation ahs gone, it is difficultto get it back on track. Lastyear she was achieving A grades, but the teacher was scoring her 2 for effort (effort is graded 1,2,3). This year she has scored 1 all roundfor effort but has achieved lower grades.

 

I am just concerned that the teacher keeps telling her how fantastically she is doing,

 

quote:

"your number work was just amazing today"

 

"your maths was excellent"

 

"your number work was fantastic again!"

 

"you are so great at mental maths!"

 

"fantastic number work clever clogs!"

 

This hasled us and Rachael to believe she is doing fantastically at maths - like she always has. Everyone has always commented on her mathematical ability. All I want is to have been getting realistic feed back throughout the year on her work - not being told how fantastic she is and then receivign a grade which in her school = average. If the teacher had looked back on previous performances, she would have noticed that her performance was down on last year. If tehre is a porblem we should know.

 

This may seem like a huge fuss over nothing, but I know my daughter and the effect these things have on her. I don't even know if these grades are on test scores or general performance through out the year. She siad in the report her test scores were high! She also stold me she scored in the top ten in the class in maths and english ( there are29 in her class).

 

It is not the grade she has received - it is the fact that perhaps ove zealous praise has been given to this little girl and now she feels really disappointed. I must reiterate that I have consistently praised her for her report and told her that ehr grades do not matter! I would be very foolish to do otherwise. However it does not stop me from being concerned!

 

What I should add is that over praise which is unrealistic can be just as dangerous as not enough!

Edited June 25, 2006 by KATHY BLAIR

[Lucas]

"You haven't failed until you've started blaming someone else."

 

My misunderstanding of what my teacher told me held me back, but I think he misunderstood it too; otherwise he wouldn't have used it in the context he did.

 

I wasn't blaming him for giving me a bad mark, I was blaming him for not recognising that what I had on paper in front of him was a work of genius that would change the world forever. I can't remember what it was now.

 

First thing to remember about school marking scores: they do not judge you on how 'good' you are. To do that they would have to know what 'good' is to begin with and then recognise the different types of 'good'. Their 'good' often involves how you manage red-tape like showing your working-out (impossible for a picture thinker because anything they can draw which they used to work out math can never be understood by anyone else; it's an alien langauge).

 

The people that score you are humans acting like robots, a bit like robots that act like humans; simple and breakdown easily. They cannot give you marks for things they don't understand. To explain it to them you'd have to write a whole essay for their benefit because the concept is so simple to you and you're suprised they can't grasp it just by looking. You can't blame them for the mark, but you can blame them for not recognising greatness.

 

Now if this school has a grading system where A is above average, B is average and C is below average, what is being measured as 'average' here? Is this average for the school? In which case it becomes harder to get an A when everyone is a brilliant student because the average mark B equals brilliance, requiring better than brilliance to reach A. A becomes unreachable when everyone is brilliant.

 

The teacher though should have been helping her to get an A anyway. They should have been pointing out where even the best things can be improved to get an A. A person that recieves no criticism has no idea what they can do better at. When someone tells me there is something wrong with something I've done or made, it means that I can do it better than it already is, it doesn't mean it isn't already excellent.

[pumpkinpie]

Is it just me or is grading a 7 year old work this way going overboard?

 

It seems to me the way chidlrens work is marked is a whole school issue and if the kids are showing off their reports to the extent others are made to feel very bad(bullying) that the school needs to look at how this is managed.

I would consider writing a very polite letter asking about marking and your concerns about how children with sen are affected by peeers flashing their grades around.

Its more that just being disapointed about her grade its about how school as a whole manages the needs of all kids and I think they need to think about if their rep[orting could be done in a fairer manner!

Edited June 26, 2006 by pumpkinpie

[Anneuk]

I have a seven year old daughter with Asperger Syndrome, who has been assessed as having high IQ. She has been lacknig in self confidence which has really improved this year.

 

Part of the reason for this was because an achievement book was implemented in school to note her achievements. All year hae teacher has been commenting to her on how "exceelent" her numeracy skills are and this has always been an area where she has excelled.

 

The class she is in is a very competitive class for such a young age and a big hype was gathering around the school reports. The children are graded for attainment, but I don't know whether this is best on tests or generally. In previous years she has always had As for maths and science and art.

 

We got her report - the grades are A=above average; B=average;C=below average.

The report was mostly Bs and I could see her little face drop - she got A in science only. She has always had A in maths and her teacher has been telling her allyear how super she is and she is so disappointed. To be honest, so am I, although not showing her this. I have spent the morning crying - in her comment the teacher wrote:

 

"Rachael can recall number facts quite quickly within 20, and is excellent at answering number family questions verbally.I am really pleased with her progress in maths, she has a good understanding of all thetopics we have covered, and her test scores were high. Rachale is able to complete problem solving activites quite independnetly. She has a wonderfully logical thought process which is an asset to her!"

 

But she awarded her B= average. All Rachael sees is the B -I have tried to reassure her by reading this to her and telling her how well she has done. But I know she is really disappointed.

 

I am wondering if I should speak to the teacher, and tell her what has happened. She is young and inexperienced and I don't want to upset her, but I don't want Rachael's confidence to take a knock.

 

I know I should be happy she is doing so well, but you know what these children are like and how hard they can be on themselves. We don't push her and have taken a laid back approach with school. But i feel so disappointed for her. To top it all, I know they are all going to be talking about what they got. The little boy up the street from us called me over and told me got 8 As and asked hpw Rachael did (they are in thes ame class).

 

More than anything I am confused about her progress - they are telling me how wonderfully she has done and yet her grades are down on last year. What do I do?

 

 

Big Hugs Kathy, My daughter is a high achiever too and is also a perfectionist and gets terribly demoralized if she feels that she has failed.

 

One of our primary teachers told us they rarely give the top marks because it laves them no wehre to progress, Personally I sort of agree with this, also I feel that in my daughters case she is going to have to face lots of situations where she is not best at things and she has to learn to cope with this, it is hard for her and us, but over the past few years she has got better and better.

 

Infact as a yr 7 (shes 11) she has recently been getting level 7's in some of her subjects and this is way above what her peers have been getting, on her report recieved yesterday in those subjects it doesn't seem to reflect this in the actual marks which are averaged out, etc etc My daughter just shrugged whereas last year she would have been inconsolable.

 

I think to get the teacher to change her marks, would be giving your child the wrong impression and might not be good in the long run, instead work on the coping stratergies for the dissapointment. As for her praise, this is probably the best indication of how your daughter is really doing, Try to emphaisie this to your daughter telling her this is more important than the actual marks which for loads of reasons such as Lucas sometimes these marks are near impossible to achieve.

 

As for keeping up with the Jones's and comparing test results. I will not be part of this at my school, when all the parents start being silly I walk away this immature behaviour about who is better than who is sad and pathetic and we should all rise above it.

 

Just my opinion, but I really do know where you are coming from

 

Anne

Edited June 26, 2006 by Anneuk

[KATHY BLAIR]

I have spoken to the teacher this morning quite casually about this.

 

She said that in P3 she is only allowed to give the top 4 or 5 chikdren an A grade and the bottom 5 a C grade. This means that the majority get B - This is in prpearation for primary 4 (i am in N.Ireland and we have P1, 2,3,4,5,6,7 - I am not sure how that corresponds). She says she doesn't agree with this as this a huge array of ability within the average grade. She has reassured me that Rachael's maths is as I had thought - way above average, but there are a few other children who are also at this level and she fell just short of the grade in that category. Had she been able to she would have givenher an A grade! She got A grades in science which I know is really good and I would not have expeted them in English anyway.

 

At least i feel reassured that the praise she has been getting is appropriate and she is not falling behind. I can also explain the grading system to her and she will know then that grades do not always depend on your performance but can beinfluenced by other factors.

 

Not sure about the method of assessment - will mention this to the headmaster when i next meet with him. He just loves to see me coming, you know!!??!!

[Pippin]

That's a really stupid attitude by the teacher Kathy. She's supposed to be assessing your daughter's ability....not her position in the class against whatever this years bunch are capable of. We're in Wales and have stopped formal SATS but the children are still assessed at those ages. There is a fairly strict grading protocol which doesnt change year on year.....If there's a class full of total geniuses or idiots it shouldn't make a difference.....the gradings should follow the child through in whichever mix of classmates they have!!! My son changed school this year....If your daughters teacher had her way he'd have had top grades last year (when he was the best in his special unit) and bottom grades this year (when he went back in to mainstream). ...what use would that have been to either him or future teachers? I'd be clamouring at the head teacher's door on this one!!

[baddad]

A person that recieves no criticism has no idea what they can do better at. When someone tells me there is something wrong with something I've done or made, it means that I can do it better than it already is, it doesn't mean it isn't already excellent.

 

 

[Jill]

she is only allowed to give the top 4 or 5 children an A grade and the bottom 5 a C grade.

 

I know this approach - it's a stupid idea that probably arose from some group of consultants on silly wages. It's called a "bell curve" approach.

 

How do I know? Cos they apply it to annual appraisal markings where I work - only a maximum of 5% of people are allowed A marks on their appraisals. So, if more than 5% have the A grade, then all the managers have to get together to "discuss" who it is more appropriate to allocate the A grade to (in reality, it's down to which manager can shout loudest / is strongest in the meeting).

 

The theoretical reason for this is that gaining an A grade should be unusual - you can't have that many people in an organisation classed as "a top notch performer who consistently achieves more than their grade requires" (the description of the A on the appraisal).

 

The real reason for this is because the marking on your appraisal directly links to your pay rise, so the company quite understandably don't want many A's (wish they'd be honest and admit this tho, rather than the usual fob off blurb you get from employers).

 

Doesn't help you much I know, but at least you can explain to your daughter why it has happened. Well done to her BTW for applying herself so well at school!

[KATHY BLAIR]

This class moves forward as a class - the class only changes is if someone leaves or someone new comes. Therefore there is little movement or chance to move up and down the grading system - the same children generally all get the same grades.

 

It is the same as reading - they are grouped for reading and the groups more or less the same the whole way through school. This is how Rachael fell so badly behind in reading.strted out at the top of the hihgest reading group. Although she had all the individual components for reading at the level she was at, she couldn't read as quickly as the others in the group (Her interest level has always been way in excess of her ability level) - probably due to sensory distractors, confidence and so on; and also a change in routine, as theteacher let a student have the reading group. They moved her back because she was slowing the group down and then back again. She lost all motivation as she saw the books as baby books and completely lost interest. I always argued that if she was technically capable of reading in the highest group and that this was a more suitable interest level for her, she should have had assistance to stay in that group. Because she was not statemented at the time they could not do it and did not see the reasoning behind motivation, performance and interest. This was when she was only half way through her first year at school and it has only been in the past 6 months that her reading has begun to improve.

 

She was stuck in a reading group that was assessed as being suitable and none of thechildren get to move out of this group.

 

How fair a system is it, that even though a child has greatly improved, it will never be reflected in its grades as the system is not set up to let that happen!

 

In fairness to the teacher, she is following the school protocol, and has to. She doesn't agree with itbut as thisis her first post prbably does not feel she can challenge it.

[tabz2711]

I have a seven year old daughter with Asperger Syndrome, who has been assessed as having high IQ. She has been lacknig in self confidence which has really improved this year.

 

Part of the reason for this was because an achievement book was implemented in school to note her achievements. All year hae teacher has been commenting to her on how "exceelent" her numeracy skills are and this has always been an area where she has excelled.

 

The class she is in is a very competitive class for such a young age and a big hype was gathering around the school reports. The children are graded for attainment, but I don't know whether this is best on tests or generally. In previous years she has always had As for maths and science and art.

 

We got her report - the grades are A=above average; B=average;C=below average.

The report was mostly Bs and I could see her little face drop - she got A in science only. She has always had A in maths and her teacher has been telling her allyear how super she is and she is so disappointed. To be honest, so am I, although not showing her this. I have spent the morning crying - in her comment the teacher wrote:

 

"Rachael can recall number facts quite quickly within 20, and is excellent at answering number family questions verbally.I am really pleased with her progress in maths, she has a good understanding of all thetopics we have covered, and her test scores were high. Rachale is able to complete problem solving activites quite independnetly. She has a wonderfully logical thought process which is an asset to her!"

 

But she awarded her B= average. All Rachael sees is the B -I have tried to reassure her by reading this to her and telling her how well she has done. But I know she is really disappointed.

 

I am wondering if I should speak to the teacher, and tell her what has happened. She is young and inexperienced and I don't want to upset her, but I don't want Rachael's confidence to take a knock.

 

I know I should be happy she is doing so well, but you know what these children are like and how hard they can be on themselves. We don't push her and have taken a laid back approach with school. But i feel so disappointed for her. To top it all, I know they are all going to be talking about what they got. The little boy up the street from us called me over and told me got 8 As and asked hpw Rachael did (they are in thes ame class).

 

More than anything I am confused about her progress - they are telling me how wonderfully she has done and yet her grades are down on last year. What do I do?

 

I can undersatnd where you are coming from as the same happened to me with my daughter who was in her last year at primary. She was given a B for I.T and she felt upset as she is really good at computers, so good that the teacher always asked her to help her when she could not do something. B is excellent but why not an A if they deserve it. At her new school she has had awards for her I.T skills after being there for only a term.

[Karen A]

I think its a very strange system -at the school my boys go to they are graded according to attainment levels Joel eldest son is performing at a level well in excess of that expected for year 5 as are several peers so this will be recorded for all of them his report does not state a class position.