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LKS

I've had enough

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I have had many battles with my dd's school in the past. Our latest was about a particular child being put in to her class for next year. I wrote a letter (polite I think) expressing my concerns. Well class lists came home today and this child is not in it but what they have done is put my dd in a class with NO friends :wallbash::wallbash::angry: Revenge do you think. She is friendly with 2 particular girls and they play with 2/3 others, they have a good understanding of her difficulties and are very supportive of the fact that dd is working at about the level of a 6 year old :( These are the only 2 houses that dd goes round to play. Needless to say these girls have all been put in the same class. I had brought up the subject of classes at the annual review and was told the classes had not been finalised but they could assure me dd's interests had been taken in to account. Well when they said to dd put 2 people you would like to be in your class she put 2 boys on her table as she didn't understand the question. I am not willing to hear the same old c**p from them about the careful consideration that goes in to classes none has gone in to this. I don't want to hear about the need to expand friendships, you build on what you have not take them away. I did not expect her to be in a class with both of the girls, but she is usually with one or the other. So do we have the benefit of a lovely teacher to make up for it, no. If I told you that she once shouted at my AS dyspraxic son to get himself organised, haven't got all day. ruining it for the class(they were on a trip) I think you will understand her understanding of SEN is poor. She also said to ds once when he was trying to make me a mother's day card with scissors and having great trouble, What a mess if I had time I would make you do that again, she put his progress back about 6 months. She also said to a parent of a boy with ADHD (and he was having particular problems) We don't have to have kids like yours in our school. I'm sorry to rant but to me this has summed up the schools attitude and knowledge of my dd, we really might as well change schools now. My dd is upstairs still crying I am crying and can think of nothing positive to say about this class to help her. Do you think perhaps they want us to leave :tearful:

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>:D<<'>

I really can't say much, as their are many more qualified to say more than me, but I too have been in tears today with my dd school...

 

You are not alone, and tomorrow things will seem brighter....

 

Maybe we can get your teachers and my teachers and shoot them all together?

 

Anne >:D<<'>

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>:D<<'> LKS,

I hope you can get to the bottom of this, for the sake of your dd. It does seem unfair on her. Has any reason been given or do you know of anyone else who has been seperated from their friends?

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LKS :tearful:

 

 

So sorry to read your post. Thinking of you and your daughter and so hope another forum member has been thru this and can offer some sound advice. Take care >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

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Hi LKS

 

My daughter had a similar thing when she was in either yr 5 or 6. Because they had new children starting the school in her year - they decided that four of the class had to be put into the youngest group of the next year - my daughter's birthday is July so both her and three boy's born in Aug - were kept back into that class. It was a nightmare for her too - having said that she usually got on better with the boys than the girls in primary - because her interests were playstation and computers.

 

I hope she's feeling better soon - try to build some confidence with her on the two boys that she picked. Other than that I'm afraid I don't have any answers. It was difficult for my daughter and until she started that year and knew what to expect she didn't stop worrying.

 

Take care,

Jb

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ok, I'm not sure if your dd's current teacher is sympathetic?? Try speaking to her and the head, these lists aren't set in stone!!! Our HT liked an equal split of boys/girls and of SEN, that was her criteria, but allowances can always be made! (unless they are completely inflexible and heartless :huh: )

Anna x

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I don't want to hear about the need to expand friendships, you build on what you have not take them away.

 

Absolutely!

 

If I were you I would use that line as the basis of a letter (yes I know, another one!). But don't complain. Not this time. Simply tell them them how upset and let down your dd feels over this. Explain how isolated she aleady is and how this will simply increase that feeling... Tell them straight you are not bothering to complain about this as you know from their track record that they are not going to listen to what you have to say so why should you waste your time? Make it very clear that you have lost all faith in them now. If they cannot do this one simple thing to help your daughter be happy then you are simply left with the conclusion that your child is not welcome there. Pour it out on their heads. Then, garnish it and CC it to everyone from the CoG to the Director of Education and anyone you can think of.

 

What a ###### way to treat a child!

Edited by phasmid

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I am going to become a real pain on this forum BUT please add to your letter, in the nicest possible way, that by taking away your daughters friends they will also be taking away her ability to 'enjoy and achieve' which is one of the 5 AIMS in Every Child Matters, which is 'LAW!' and every School has the duty to make sure that 'ALL' Children enjoy and achieve and EVERY School should have a teacher whose responsibility the 5 AIMS are. I would ask who this person is. If they do not have one then they really are breaking the law.

 

Oracle

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Thanks so much for your kind words and support everyone >:D<<'> We had a really bad night, had to hold dd til she went to sleep, still crying :( Awake very early still stressing about her class so I am kepping her at home today. I have not told her anything about the teacher as I don't think that would help her, but she said is Mrs. ****** the one that shouts :(

This teacher also had my nephew in yr 5 he is nt but very quiet and lacking in self-esteem. She once told his mum, my sister, that he sits in her class like a vegetable!! Another friend whos son had this teacher told me it was the worst year her son has ever had in school. Her son has dyspraxia and is terribly disorganised and the teacher was unsupportive and dismissive of the problems. This teacher seems to believe that sen children have no place in a mainstream school. It is almost funny if it wasn't so sad that they honestly think this is the best place for dd. Its almost as if they have created the worst scenario in order to set dd up to fail. I feel that we are not wanted at this school and this is some awful plan to make us leave :( I will write a letter it will do no good as I know the HT will come back with the usual load of b******s about careful consideration going into classes, carefully selected friends, best teacher for the child :angry:

At the annual review my dd had typed up with my help her views. One question was Who are your special or best friends, She answered with the 2 girls that the school in their wisdom have decided to separate her from. :wallbash:

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I am going to become a real pain on this forum

 

Yup!

 

Only cos like me you can't be 'there' for everyone but we don't half get close to doing it via here...So, can I be a pain with you Oracle?

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I am working hard at being a pain here to although new I could catch up quickly.In the last couple of weeks I have managed to probably get the title of mum the HT,DHT, SENCO least want to talk to.I also created a stir ranting at a life guard at the baths.As I said to my OH I used to be really reasonable :D:D Karen.Unfortunately the more I read about how others need to fight to get appropriate support for their children the more vocal I become :D:D:D

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:):) PSA and Karen you sound like you are well on the way to becoming big pains :thumbs:

I have just retrieved the class list from the bin where dd deposited it :P In her class are 4 boys that have EBD. some of them are really troublesome, probably because they are not given the right support. This just gets worse. :(

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LKS, does your dd have 1:1 support and do these boys have their own 1;1 supports or could it be that the school are trying to cut funds by spreading resources?

Like I said earlier the lists can be changed, after all new children can start in sept! I would call the HT today and explain the distress your DD is in. If that fails maybe try parent partnership, governers, LEA to see what pressure they can bring!

good luck and hugs to you both!

Anna x

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Anna yes my dd does have 1:1 support these boys I am pretty sure do not. But do you know I am not entirely unsympathetic with their plight either. I have left several meassages for the Ht and an e-mail. No reply at all, not even asking how dd is. I don't exaggerate when I say this is truly an awful teacher. There are also going to be 13 girls and 17 boys in the class. Well thats a fair split isn't it. Also 13 girls HELLO, spot the girl that has not been put in with a particular friend. DD has been pouring over this list all day and I have tried to distract her with other things. She keeps saying who is going to be my partner. I shall never never forgive the school for this, for treating me with contempt, for not listening to my concerns and for failing to act when alerted to a potential problem. I'm wondering if there is anyway I can'get them' because they didn't take in to consideration dd's difficulties when asking her to choose.

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.My dyspraxic son had a truly awful teacher in Year 1 who shouted at everyone, he was a nervous wrek by the end of the year, and so were we. I think you are absolutely justified to be concerned and I wouldn't wish anyone what we went through as a result of her horrible shouting. Does your child have a statement ? I got it put on my son's statement that he needed a teacher who was patient and, although the LEA would not use the actual word "shout" it does infer that he needs a quietly spoken teacher, and time to process any instructions given, which he did get last year.

 

I really feel for you. My other son was in a class two years ago without any of his friends, and it was a really lonely year for him. Fortunately, the next year they changed the classes again, and he got some of his friends back.

 

I would call the Parent Partnership and ask them to attend a meeting with you and the HT. Ask the Parent Partnership to call the HT to make the appointment - the HT would have to answer their call surely ! If you send another letter, send it recorded delivery (costs about ?1), and copy it to everyone you can think of.

 

Good luck

 

And, to all those pains out there - please carry on being pains, you are lovely pains and we need pains like you to help the rest of us pains be pains. Thanks.

 

Daisydot

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Daisydot your reply confirmed why I must make my concerns known. (as if they didn't know already :( ) Dd is statemented but that has never seemed to make a difference in the past as to how we have been treated.

Thank you all for being so understanding, there is nowhere like this forum for helping you to deal with these things. My sister has just phoned me, her nt son who is a very quiet boy and lacking in confidence was in this teachers class in year 5. She was so angry to hear my news and said it was the worst and most miserable year her son had ever had at school :o The fact that no-one has contacted me from the school, even to say that they have received my calls and e-mails or to enquire how dd is has really hurt me. I am an emotional wreck today. Dh has had to go off to Ireland just now as his uncle has unexpectedly passed away and they have the funerals pretty quick I think in Ireland. So here I am again by myself and unsupported (apart from you lot of course) :D

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If your daughter could go into the other class with the other two girls and the nicer teacher, would that be acceptable to you and more importantly your daughter ?

 

Why are HT allowed to get away with not dealing with parents of SEN children with understanding, or only dealing with the parents who suck up to them ? My friends hubby is a governor and he gets to say which class he wants his daughter in.

 

Please ring the parent partnership tomorrow and ask them for some help. Do you have a friendly or approachable parent / governor or someone who could kick the HT butt a little ?

Explain it to them that you are really concerned for the emotional wellbeing of your daughter, and you feel all the good the SEN is doing will be undone if she goes into this new class.

 

If the HT or school still fail to make contact, tell them you just won the Euro Millions and would like to donate ?1 million pounds to school funds. Bet they phone then !

 

You are not on your own, as I for one was where you are a few weeks ago in terms of despair and feeling ignored and let down by a couldnt care less school. Keep logging on to this website. Hope you get the result you want soon.

Daisydot

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Oh well still no contact from the school. Have phoned again today and sent another e-mail. I have contacted PP for advice, but have to be very careful as when I involved them in the past the HT seemed to be very resentful that I felt we could not sort out the problem between us :wacko: I have been on to my SNO at the SEN dept of the LEA. She was not at all interested and said it was not really appropriate for them to get involved in school problems :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: . I know I shouldn't have said this but I replied that O.K. but she will find herself involved when I ask for a different placement as I no longer feel this school is the right enviroment for dd. Dd has gone in to school today, we forgot back-pack and trainers :wacko: not a good start and it made her cry. Actually everything is making her cry at the moment.

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LKS I think the school are hoping that you will get fed up and give up here :angry: I would not in fact I would mail em again and say that you expect a response of some sort by .............. and give them a time.

 

I do not know where you live but most areas are now part of Children's Trust and as such have a Director of Children's Services. We do not have LEA's now we have LA's and if the SEN people are not interested then I would be e-mailing - followed up with a hard copy - of as letter to the Director of Children's Services and making them of this situation it is their job to do something about it. Now they will probably get onto the SEN people and 'make it' their job. I am sorry but if this is the set up in your LA now it is for them to become involved with individual schools when there are problems, otherwise what are parents supposed to do when their is a problem.? I would even be tempted to say in the letter that you are so upset by what is happening to your daughter that if someone does not do something you will go to your MP and draw their attention to the fact that because of the actions of the school your daughter will not be able to enjoy and achieve (sorry broken record syndrome) MP's may not want to get involved in local polotics but ECM is national :devil:

 

Oracle

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Oracle. Thanks so much for your info. Been on the LA site and our director of childrens services was actually the director of education :huh: Anyway made a few calls to see if I could get an address and person I could speak to and the switchboard put me through to the office of the SNO I had already spoken too :wacko: I have just sent another e-mail to school expressing my concern that nobody has yet been able to get back to me. I said I look forward to their explanation of why placing my dd in a class without friends and with a teacher who is known for her unsympathetic attitude to sen could possibly be in her best interests and allow her to achieve and enjoy. I also copied my original letter and all other copies of my e-mails. I have said I would like immediate acknowledgement that they have received this e-mail and I will call in to the office first thing tomorrow and wait until the HT is available. :devil: What this will do once again though is alienate me from members of staff and portray me as an unresonable parent :( Not the best way to end a year or start a new one.

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What this will do once again though is alienate me from members of staff and portray me as an unresonable parent Not the best way to end a year or start a new one.

 

For your own sake try and look at this in a different way, which in my opinion is the right way.

 

It's the members of staff who are being unreasonable because they are failing to acknowledge that your daughter has a disability. Would they want to remove her wheelchair when she switched year groups? When you look at it like that then it becomes crystal clear who has the problem and it's NOT you.

 

They appear to be really good at bashing your confidence, which in my opinion could also be seen as bullying. They are certainly not nice people.

 

>:D<<'> Oracle

 

PS the fact that your ex Director of Education is now your Director of Children's Services say a great deal but it should not put you off.

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I agree with Oracle's view 100%.YOU not being unreasonable at all. The school however appear to be making no effort to take into account your daughters problems...none at all! That simply isn't good enough. She has a statement of SEN which clearly indicates she has a scoio-communication problem therfore they must take this into account when planning anything to do with her - including friendship groups in whichever class she is going into.

 

THEY HAVEN'T DONE THIS!!!

 

Your not asking for the earth, you are simply asking that your daughters problems in making (and keeping) friends are acknowledged and taken into account when placing her in her new class. At this stage changing her class ought to be a very straightforward exercise. I would ask myself why they appear to be so reluctant to do this - then I'd ask them the same question, in writing. Stating VERY clearly that in your opinion the failure to acknowledge your correspondance on this matter leaves you to draw the only conclusion you can: They are refusing to accept her disability as a disability and address the needs she has as a result of it. Placing her in a class where she has got established friendships will make a significant difference to her. By isolating her from these friends, except at breaktimes, she is left feeling very vulnerable and scared. The effect this will have on her in September is already begining to show itself now and she has, as a direct result of this, already shown in the last few days a complete reluctance to attend. Therefore unless this situation is addressed forthwith they are likely to see your daughter become at best a school refuser and at worst school phobic. If they wish to continue to ignore your request for this to be sorted out before that happens you require from them a written explanation of their reasons for doing so. Also make it very clear that by attempting to contact them now to resolve this you are wanting to work with them to ensure your daughter has an easy a transition from one year to the next as is possible - pour on the charm - point out you appreciate how difficult it must be to arrange classes so that everybody has at least 1 friend in their new class. Despite this, and their apparent attempt to do so in your daughters case, your daughter has been left with the few friends she has got in another class and she NEEDS this support.

 

At the end of the day you are asking them to make a reasonable adjustment to class lists in light of your daughters DX. Remember that!! You ARE NOT being unreasonable, difficult, or a pain in the rear. All you want is for your daughter to be as happy and settled as she can be in her new class. You have to look out for her - thats what being a parent is all about. Stick to your guns. CC the letter/e-mail to the head, CoG, Director of inclusion (or equivelant in your LA) and the head of pupil and parent services and the director of childrens services - why not stick your MP on the list too while your at it. Do not let school do this, and if they insist they are going to anyway get that explanation!!!

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Received letter from Ht will try and shorten it a bit as it goes on.

Dear Mrs. ******

I have received your various e-mails in the past 24 hours. I will respond to these on this occasion though would prefer the more traditional letter format since e-mails are ephemeral :wacko:

I was taken aback by your reluctance for *** to be in Mrs. **** class next year. He then goes on to say why although she can appear as a little brusque what an outstanding teacher she is and well known for her caring attitude to her class. In fact there is a huge big paragraph on her professional capabilities, but nothing on her experience of working with children with sen. I have never questioned her professional capabilities.

I was aware that initially both *** and yourself might find the change difficult (as indeed was the case from both yr 2 to 3 and 3 to 4) That is why I have decided not to change ***'s p.m L.S.A support.

You mention your concern that *** was not with 2 specific children. We did work with *** concerning whom she felt she would like to be with next year on 2 occasions. on the first neither of these 2 girls was mentioned (mmm thats strange as they are the only 2 that dd socialises with outside school) We did realise that she might not have understood what was required. On the 2nd occasion while indeed she did mention these 2 she also mentioned others that had shown kindness to her and offered her support in class.(a little bit different from being in a class with a good friend) Assigning children to classes was undertaken whilst I was on the yr 6 residential trip, and were rewritten 5 times before a final arrangement was agreed. (Thats strange as at the annual review for dd when he had returned from the trip he said he was unable to discuss classes as they had not been finalised :wacko: ) At no time did the teachers feel that the assignments were unfair, Rather that we were trying to build on ***'s confidence and extend her range of friendships, rather than her become dependent on a very restricted grouping that might well inhibit her social and emotional development and not bring her in contact with others who might be able to offer support.

Next paragraph all about considering class groupings and any negative frienships.

Notwithstanding my and my staff's professional judgements, and our belief that ***'s progress academically, socially and emotionally will not be as effective if placed in another class, since it has obviously upset you and caused you distress I will consider moving *** to Mrs. *****'s class (where her friends are) This will slightly disadvantage the class, since it is both in a very small room and will increase the pupil numbers to over 30. I trust this meets with your wishes.

 

 

He has copied all of the teachers concerned which you can imagine has made me feel brilliant : Can you imagine how difficult it will be to try and get any sort of relationship going with this teachertearful: I really really need your help please everyone to think of a suitable reply

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:dance: Sounds like a teensy weensy bit of a victory ? Keeping everything crossed the HT doesnt just consider but actually DOES change your daughters class. sorry, not good at letters really, so will leave those comments to those who are.

 

Daisydot

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What a plonka! Why use 1 word when you can use really big ones empheremal?

 

I would say something like

Dear Mr........

Thankyou for your letter dated ....repling my telephone calls and emails dated the .......................

I am pleased that the matter has finally been resolved and dd will be able to start class.....

with her friends........

Like yourselves we are keen as a family to support dd in improving her communication skills and circle of friends, however when a child has special educational needs this has to be done in a way that is sensitive to their particular difficulty. Putting dd in a class where she is without the support of her friends and would face a more brusque teaching style no matter how expreienced and professional in dealing typical children would not have been appropriate to her needs. As I am pleased you have acknowledged.

 

Many thanks once again and I look forward to working closely with school over the coming years

Yours Faithfully

 

............

What do you think?

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Thanks pumpkinpie :thumbs: actually the reason I have used e-mails is 1) our printer has died and we cannot afford to replace it (yep money is that tight) and 2) e-mails are quite 'instant' if you know what I mean, especially if you check them regularly. :devil: I appreciate your ideas for reply, which I think I will write with quill and ink, and stamp with my official family crest on freshly heated wax.

Interestingly my dd came home today and said 'I don't want to be in a class with my friends as I might be silly and get lines', don't know where this came from, certainly not my dd.

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I have just got back home after a 3 hour parents meeting and my head is still adjusting so I am going to have a cup of coffee, watch BB :( I know :lol: and then try and get my head round this because yes I think you have won BUT I think that if it were I, gobby individual that I am, I would have to mention in any reply that I had never ever questioned professional capabilities of that teacher. I could not let that go at all - but then that's me.

 

So off to clear me head and have a think.

 

Oracle

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WHat do I think?

 

What a patronising G-I-T! Thats the first thing I think. As for a reply here is my suggestion.

 

Dear Mr >>>>,

 

Bearing in mind the nature of my concerns may I express my disappointment that it has taken so long to illicit a response from yourself. As to the 'ephemeral' nature of e-mails as a means of communication I believed this was the easiest way to contact the school, and namely yourself, when my requests for a telephone conversation with you went unanswered, repeatedly. Would I not be correct in the belief that any communication from me to the school would have to be kept on record for future reference regardless of their means of delivery? Hardly ephemeral.

 

As to the professional standing and qualifications of Mrs>>>> these were never, at any time, under question. I am sure that she is indeed a very well qualified member of your teaching staff even if she appears, as you yourself put it: ' a little brusque'. I do feel that such a manner would not have been of benefit to my daughter, especially when she was without support from any of the very few peers in he yeargroup with whom she has any type of social contact.

 

I was somewhat surprised to read that: We did work with *** concerning whom she felt she would like to be with next year on 2 occasions. on the first neither of these 2 girls was mentioned (mmm thats strange as they are the only 2 that daughter socialises with outside school) We did realise that she might not have understood what was required. On the 2nd occasion while indeed she did mention these 2 she also mentioned others that had shown kindness to her and offered her support in class. Assigning children to classes was undertaken whilst I was on the yr 6 residential trip, and were rewritten 5 times before a final arrangement was agreed. This seems to contradict you stating at at the annual review for daughter that you were 'unable to discuss classes as they had not been finalised' this was after you had returned from said trip. I am sure this comment will have been recorded in the meetings minutes. If you realised that she may not have understood the nature of the request about friends in her new class on the first occasion how, may I ask, can you be certain that she understood it on the second? Surely it would have been prudent to have contacted me at this point to get some parental input on the situation would it not?

 

You further state in your e-mail that: At no time did the teachers feel that the assignments were unfair, Rather that we were trying to build on ***'s confidence and extend her range of friendships, rather than her become dependent on a very restricted grouping that might well inhibit her social and emotional development and not bring her in contact with others who might be able to offer support. Due to the nature of my daughters disability she needs to be allowed to build on the foundations of the limited friendship group she already has. It serves her no purpose whatsoever to take this group away. In fact it has already caused her a great deal of, what now seems to be unnecessary, upset. Upset that, in my opinion, could very easily have been avoided had there been some communication between the school and myself over this before the classes were finalised. Perhaps this is something the school could take on board for the future when dealing with other children on the autistic spectrum.

 

"Notwithstanding my and my staff's professional judgements, and our belief that ***'s progress academically, socially and emotionally will not be as effective if placed in another class, since it has obviously upset you and caused you distress I will consider moving *** to Mrs. *****'s class (where her friends are) This will slightly disadvantage the class, since it is both in a very small room and will increase the pupil numbers to over 30. I trust this meets with your wishes."

 

Mr >>>>, you appear to have completely missed the point of my concern. The 'professional judgement' of you and your staff was never under any question. What was under question was the emotional distress and upset the decision to separate my daughter from her friends had caused HER. You acknowledge the fact yourself (above) that >>>> may not have fully understood what was happening when she was spoken to about classmates - despite this you chose to separate her anyway. When, as any parent in similar circumstances would do, I have requested that this matter be addressed I did not expect to be left feeling somewhat patronised by your response. There should be no need for the class to be any larger than it currently is expected to be. All you need to do is find someone who would like to change classes with her, thus both classes stay the same size. If however this is not possible would it not make sense to give the largest class the biggest classroom?

 

Your actions in CC'ing what I expected to be a reasonably private correspondence between ourselves to the teaching staff has no obvious purpose that I can see apart form embarasing me and this I find totaly unacceptable. Do you CC all your communication with parents to staff?

 

 

Change the terms in the following paragraph to suit so it reads: I was not asking for the earth...You seem very reluctant to acknowledge my daughters disability...and so on.

 

Your not asking for the earth, you are simply asking that your daughters problems in making (and keeping) friends are acknowledged and taken into account when placing her in her new class. At this stage changing her class ought to be a very straightforward exercise. I would ask myself why they appear to be so reluctant to do this - then I'd ask them the same question, in writing. Stating VERY clearly that in your opinion the failure to acknowledge your correspondance on this matter leaves you to draw the only conclusion you can: They are refusing to accept her disability as a disability and address the needs she has as a result of it. Placing her in a class where she has got established friendships will make a significant difference to her. By isolating her from these friends, except at breaktimes, she is left feeling very vulnerable and scared. The effect this will have on her in September is already begining to show itself now and she has, as a direct result of this, already shown in the last few days a complete reluctance to attend. Therefore unless this situation is addressed forthwith they are likely to see your daughter become at best a school refuser and at worst school phobic.

 

 

I have always strived to keep effective lines of communication between myself and the school open. Had this been recipraocated perhaps this situation would never have a risen in the first instance.

 

Yours

 

 

 

Feel free to use, ignore, edit etc as you wish the above.

 

Phas

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Well, another a*****e of the year award winner! What a letter! Almost tempting just to Email back "thanks x" :devil:

But seriously a letter explaining that you do not doubt the teachers ability to teach, just her style isn't condusive to dd's feeling confident. Reiterate that the matter has caused considerable distress to your dd which will make for a difficult transition in september and that perhaps matters involving educational provision (including socialisation) should be discussed with yourself due to the recognised difficulties dd has with communication.!

End with looking forward to a successful transition into the new term.

 

Good luck, Anna x

(excuse spellings, tired and can't focus, off to bed)

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Coffee and BB worked a treat came back to find that Phasmid did the business and you can't get better than perfection can you :notworthy:

 

What a guy to have on your side :first:

 

Oracle

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Phasmid you are a star :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: Thank you all so very very much. (wonder where the HT gets the bit about me finding change difficult as well, seems to me that that is what he thinks has been wrong with my 2 all along, they just don't like change pure and simple :devil:

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