We don't need this - more news

[Cat]

I subscribe to a couple of American lists where this is making the news and becoming a talking point. Not good - hope they are wrong.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireSt...7323&page=1

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266808,00.html

 

Cat

 

Update at the foot of this - better news

Edited April 22, 2007 by Cat

[bid]

I've been waiting for this to happen in the press over here

 

Bid

[oxgirl]

Ya know, Cat, I've been expecting this. They started talking about him being a loner and not giving eye contact, etc. etc. On a recent radio programme they had a debate about whether people should be wary of so-called 'loners' and I've just been waiting for someone to come up with AS or autism as an 'explanation'.

 

~ Mel ~

[Tally]

I wondered how long it was going to take for someone to make the autism connection.

 

Rarely spoke, poor eye contact, obsessions with people . . . does sound like ASD to me, but with a hell of a lot more going on too.

[Kazzen161]

There was a report in The Mirror today where his grandfather said he was diagnosed with autism at 8.

[Bambi]

Take a look at this, was expecting the 'A' word to come up tbh

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm...-name_page.html

 

Bambi x

[lorryw]

As soon as I read that he was a loner I knew that someone somewhere would link him to ASD.

ASD has suddenly become a common, all encompasing personality disorder.

[Mumble]

I'm sat here in tears having read these, particularly the first one, I can't stop crying I don't get upset over the news, I've never had that emotional involvement that NTs talk about, but this has really hit me, particularly at a time I'm trying to come to terms with my diagnosis. I also feel guilty because I'm crying for myself as much as for anything else.

 

I love being at university - where I am now is the only place I've ever felt happy and generally accepted, by the staff if not the students. I was feeling so positive; I had a long meeting with my supervisor yesterday and we talked about my Asperger's and how it does and will affect me - I was feeling so positive that he was prepared to take the time to listen to my seemingly stupid concerns and that he has been keen to learn best how to work with me. I'd even managed to talk to another student outside of lecturers earlier in the week and really thought things were getting there - that I was somehow beginning to come to terms with my diagnosis myself and could begin to think rationally about the things I found difficult and logically about approaches and solutions. I was prepared to begin to embrace myself as I am, to accept the support my university are offering and to think positively. It has made such a difference to me after the huge dip I felt once my diagnosis hit me.

 

I'm so scared about what happens now. My tutor disclosed my diagnosis to people I wasn't aware she was going to do, so there are a bunch of staff members, not just lecturers, who know I have Aspergers but who probably don't have the backup of knowledge to know what it really means. In addition, my tutor knows that my brother (who is autistic) was arrested for acts that could be construed as agressive (he was not being aggressive - he was misunderstood) because I'd got very upset about this in college. Though I know that I and my brother are very different people, it's not a big leap for an unknowledgeable person to make some link here. Even without any link, people are going to hear the words autism or aspergers in relation to this news story and link it semantically to me without any factual basis. What happens if on the basis of this, the university decide that they can't trust me? What if they ask me to leave? I really don't know what to do - I have all these 'what ifs' going round in my head and I'm terrified of how this story might develop, what conclusions will be reached and what the impact of this will be on me. I know I shouldn't be thinking about myself, but I can't help it.

 

Even if they don't make some link, and I am allowed to stay at the university despite being a possible 'risk' this totally blows any plans I had for disclosure and informing other staff who could help me about my diagnosis. I don't want people to be scared of me. Without disclosure though, I won't be able to get all the support I need - I have no idea what to do.

 

I'm also concerned that other students are going to be wary - particularly the American exchange students who we have a lot of here. I don't get on socially with other students either on my course or in halls; I am, I think seen as a bit different, and some of the 'symptoms' that have been listed in these articles could apply to me. I want to have friends and social contacts but I find it so, so hard. I'm not accepted by everyone because I can appear appear slightly different; what happens if all the students start to actively avoid me - a few do already - but a few I could cope with, because I saw it as their problem, not mine.

 

Why do I have to be different? Why can't I be just like everyone else? I am terrified now. It was hard enough without this; but I really thought I had found a place where I could be me - I don't know what I'll do if this is taken away from me - I don't know how to explain that Asperger's is just part of me, that I'm not aggressive, that I'm not crazy, that people shouldn't be scared of me. I want what other people take for granted - I want to feel safe and secure and to know that I'm not going to be victimised because people think they know things that they don't.

[Bambi]

Firstly u need some of these <'> >< <'> >< <'> >< <'>

 

Ok mumble u are not this man that did this horrific massacre and u are very open about ur problems and he wasnt by not seeking the help he needed, he had much more going on than one thing if u ask me IMO which wasnt Aspergers. Please dont think people will think this of u and how dare they if they do?!

 

You should definately be able to stay at uni and why shouldnt u? U may be different to NTs and so what? u are u and a wonderful person at that and dont ever let anyone tell you any different.

 

Please try not to let it bother u (maybe easier said than done) but really u are nothing at all to do with what has happened and no-one should ever make u feel different because of it either.

 

Take care and have a relaxing evening <'>

 

Bambi x

[pearl]

<'> mumble <'> this story won't always be headline news, yes its awful but it will fade from public consciousness. It is hard tho, I completely panicked when the House episode was about Aspergers the day before J's interview, thought it would prejudice the panel. Thing is we are so tuned in to it that we cant see the wood for the trees, the rest of the world forgets quicker than we think.

[CEJesson]

It was inevitable this would pass around. Mind you I am annoyed at our coverage of the tragedy - taking 10-15mins up of a news bulletin - presenters sent to USA etc, when 200 die in Iraq on wednesday and important British stories are put way down the priority line. BBC news on terrestrial should focus on the UK. BBC World and BBC News 24 are better for world stories. Its all too CNN America these days.

 

Focusing on the inevitable questioning of the lonely gunman and the relations to Autism, it is picked up straight away. I cannot abide how the media use a disability for most articles where there is something wrong. For example, there was an article about a man who crashed into a roundabout at 110mph and walked away unharmed once (his car pedals all seized up) and the paper decided to include he was on benefits for a crocked back.

 

Another classic is the sad murder of Rosie May Storrie. This took place in the village next to mine and the boy who killed her suffered from Asperger's. It was constantly picked up in the news "Paul Smith, who has asperger's syndrome, has been sentenced....." for example, followed by a paragraph on the condition to fixate ALL ASD sufferers as lunatics. ASD as we all know can severely influence the development of other conditions. Thats why so many sufferers often have multiple ilnesses.

 

I cannot abide the media, health is so badly written and manipulated these days its unreal

[Suze]

...........media rubbish again ..........a month ago I went to a Digby Tantam lecture for the crown prosecution service.I wish I,d kept the file now so I could quote his findings....I did try to look on the web for them but found nothing.Anyway.............his findings were that autistics and AS were less likely than the NT population of commiting a crime .So autism does not increase the incidence of crime.An autistic may commit a crime as may a neuro typical BUT ..................THE NEUROTYPICAL IS MORE LIKELY TOO THAN THE AUTISTIC. The press just latch onto anything when a dreadful crime like this happens.Perhaps this young man was autistic , but as statistics go for instance out of 1000 people in the general population perhaps 8% are autistic.Out of the prison population of 1000 only 2% are autistic (this was the general gist of Tantams findings wish I could find my notes now).Anyway sorry for getting all aggrieved and on me high horse.

[LizK]

Autism seems to be the in-thing the media jump on but this student could have easily have had schizophrenia, personality disorder or the result of a childhood attachment disorder. Even if he was autistic and even if that would explain his withdrawn aloof behaviour it doesn't explain why he killed. Gunning down 32 people is not a diagnostic criteria. Why would he do when the majorities of those with autism are less likely to commit an offence. There must have been something else too whether he had other comorbid illness, personality disorder, drugs problem, poor parenting or simply just 'bad'. I think it is all too easy to either use autism as an excuse for bad behaviour or in this case to blame for dreadful event. You can't blame the autism for the act however simplistic the media make it out to be.

 

Lx

[Kathryn]

To me the most important issue is not why he killed but how he killed. How was he able to acquire and store those guns so easily - no questions asked? It might not have been possible to stop him from reaching this point of wanting to kill someone, but if he had run amok with a different weapon - say a knife - the consequences would have been less devastating - people would have the chance to get away and perhaps no one would have died.

 

I wouldn't want to live in a country where the right to bear arms takes precedence over the right to life.

 

K x

[baddad]

As has been said by others, on hearing this story I was immediately worried this would happen, because 'autism' seems to be coming the catch-all boogeyman for so many types of antisocial behaviour that are generalised by stereotypical thinking...

In the 60's he would have been branded 'Psycho'

In the 70's the buzzword would have been 'Schizophrenia'

In the 80's it would have been 'Sociopath' and the nineties gave us many new labels including ADHD's OCD's PDD's etc and heightened mis-information about the nature of all of them...

Whatever was going on in this boys head, it has nothing to do with autism Per se, regardless of whether autism does or doesn't turn out to be part of his make-up. It makes no more sense to say that behaviour of this kind arises from his autism than it would to say that every non-autistic person who commited acts of violence did so as part of their 'neurotypical thinking'.

 

L&P

BD

[Lucas]

I've also been told that Korea has a very negative view of Autism: they don't seem to distinguish Autism from Psychopathy.

[Frangipani]

I think the part that bothers me is how much they emphasise how busy the parents were running the business. It makes you question did the parents actually do anything to get the support he needed over the years.

 

In my opinion running a fulltime business and having a ASD son dont go together. Where was the support.....

 

My daughter has a friend who I believe is borderline Aspie and his parents run a Cafe and this lad is extremely lonely and his older brother is definitely on the ASD spectrum somewhere. I helped this boy out as my daughter alerted me that he was self harming, I actually took him aside and got him involved with my sons therapist and he eventually joined a youth group and not so lonely. But I often worry about him and his brother, there home alone till late in the evening every night, no one home to cook dinner etc. Where do you draw the line.

 

If I was this distant from my son all hell would break loose.

 

Mumble, my son has many friends and he is lower functioning and they all got caught up in this stupid knife incident I mentioned in Beyond Adolescense, my son and they are talking about this in the US and they are more and more supportive of my son, one came over especially to see he was okay last night to take him out to play basketball. Don't think for a minute people are going to lump all Aspergers and ASD's into this basket. I truly believe people will be saying more, what the heck were the parents doing working these long hours, they should have been there for him more. Bullying can have this affect even on Neurotypical kids too. So please Mumble throw out all those what ifs, the majority of people that know aspies and ASD's would say they are very loving and gentle and not aggressive.

 

I feel sorry for this poor kid who lost the plot because I believe he had no one to fend for him......and in the end as others have said a lot more than Aspergers or ASD was going on.

 

<'> >< <'>

 

F

[Bard]

Well, my very able and articulate NT 16 year old daughter just wandered in whilst I was reading some of the posts on the V Tech massacre from the Weird Planet Forum.

She read a few and was confused about why people would link it to ASD at all.

She assumes that the possibility of being involved in a shooting or massacre is one of the dangers of being/living in America, which is why she has no desire to ever go there.Her perception of the USA is that it is an aggressive, gun-toting uncivilised and and hostile place. She said it didn't even occur to her that a massacre in a school could have happened anywhere else, despite the fact that we remember Dunblane every year.

This is a very simplistic view, but then so are many of the other media opinions being aired on TV and in the papers.

[pearl]

Totally agree with you Frangi, I would never judge any family where both parents have to work full time, sometimes theres just no choice, but we decided as soon as J was dx'd that I would work part time for the forseeable future. My lost income is made up to some extent by his DLA but not fully. We are not a high earning family but we get by.

 

It has meant I have been able to put the hours in, working with him & professionals to get the best help for him. It simply isnt possible to do this if you cant spare the time. I dont regret a moment of it.

[baddad]

I think the part that bothers me is how much they emphasise how busy the parents were running the business. It makes you question did the parents actually do anything to get the support he needed over the years.

 

In my opinion running a fulltime business and having a ASD son dont go together. Where was the support.....

 

My daughter has a friend who I believe is borderline Aspie and his parents run a Cafe and this lad is extremely lonely and his older brother is definitely on the ASD spectrum somewhere. I helped this boy out as my daughter alerted me that he was self harming, I actually took him aside and got him involved with my sons therapist and he eventually joined a youth group and not so lonely. But I often worry about him and his brother, there home alone till late in the evening every night, no one home to cook dinner etc. Where do you draw the line.

 

If I was this distant from my son all hell would break loose.

 

Mumble, my son has many friends and he is lower functioning and they all got caught up in this stupid knife incident I mentioned in Beyond Adolescense, my son and they are talking about this in the US and they are more and more supportive of my son, one came over especially to see he was okay last night to take him out to play basketball. Don't think for a minute people are going to lump all Aspergers and ASD's into this basket. I truly believe people will be saying more, what the heck were the parents doing working these long hours, they should have been there for him more. Bullying can have this affect even on Neurotypical kids too. So please Mumble throw out all those what ifs, the majority of people that know aspies and ASD's would say they are very loving and gentle and not aggressive.

 

I feel sorry for this poor kid who lost the plot because I believe he had no one to fend for him......and in the end as others have said a lot more than Aspergers or ASD was going on.

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

F

 

Hi F - While I agree with some of what you say I really think it's just as wrong to 'blame' this on his AS as lay the responsibility for his problems off on his parent's - and as potentially offensive too.

Whatever happened in this boy's head it is not a simple case of any one thing as a trigger or even compound events 'building up' to produce a trigger...

I'll move this away from this individual case, as I feel it's very emotive, and instead use a 'general' example...

If you think of the TV/Violence debate it is pretty much acknowledged that the 'exposure' itself doesn't cause the problem. The problems arise out of the responses to the images - the psychological and emotional make-up of the viewer. Parenting - along with many, many other environmental factors - could have an influence on psychological make-up, but may be completely irrelevant. In these type of situations it's certainly not unknown for accusations to be made about 'overbearing', 'dominating', 'controlling', 'restrictive' parenting - and with the same type of prejudices and lack of any real evidence.

I don't think successful parenting has a huge amount to do with how much time you spend in the same environment as your kids - I think it has more to do with what you do within that time frame.

I am a 'stay at home' parent, so you've certainly not touched a raw nerve for me, but I do know many parents who work full time and have very busy agenda's who balance things incredibly and AMAZE me with their capacity to do so... Ben has a school-friend who's parents own and run a restaurant & takeaway that's open lunchtimes and evenings six days a week. Their son, and his smaller sister are very much included in everything that happens in and out of school and you will see one of his parents at every school meeting, every open evening, every fund-raiser. Equally, I know many children of 'stay at home' parents who get nowhere near the same amount of input or support, and who have very little real contact with their parents whatsoever...

 

Whatever 'happened' here, and regardless of whether AS is/isn't a factor or parenting issues are/are not a factor, I think we all have a vested interest in ensuring that generalised and sweeping assumptions of any sort are kept out of the debate

 

BTW - beach party barbecues .... Oh, how the other half (of the planet!) lives!

 

L&P (as always)

 

BD

[pearl]

Point taken, bd - you are right, it depends as much on parental motivation as time. But purely from my own circumstances I know I couldnt have managed working full time, theres not enough of me to go round. I'm working on cloning myself at the mo

[Flora]

I think Cat's title on this thread 'We don't need this' sums it up.

 

Flo'

[oxgirl]

I agree with Flora, we don't need this!

The minute we start pointing the finger of blame at parents is the minute we might as well all roll over and give up.

We know nothing about these peoples' lives and I think it's grossly unfair to speculate about what they did or did not do.

 

~ Mel ~

[Bard]

I couldnt have managed working full time, theres not enough of me to go round. I'm working on cloning myself at the mo

 

 

Then when you feel your life is getting tricky and things seem very difficult, remember to count this as one of your blessings.

I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months old and not weaned. I had no choice as I paid for everything, OH didn't even earn enough to pay tax. It still bothers me almost 16 years later.

Everyone who is a parent should just try to do the best they can with the cards they're dealt, and most of us do. I can't begin to imagine how the people caught up in this feel, or how the survivors will be able to move on, but the killer's family seem to be bewildered and distressed about what happened

[pearl]

I couldnt have managed working full time, theres not enough of me to go round. I'm working on cloning myself at the mo

Then when you feel your life is getting tricky and things seem very difficult, remember to count this as one of your blessings.

I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months old and not weaned. I had no choice as I paid for everything, OH didn't even earn enough to pay tax. It still bothers me almost 16 years later.

Everyone who is a parent should just try to do the best they can with the cards they're dealt, and most of us do. I can't begin to imagine how the people caught up in this feel, or how the survivors will be able to move on, but the killer's family seem to be bewildered and distressed about what happened

I do, Bard, I do, & apologise if I seemed insensitive. I did specifically say I didnt judge those who had no choice but to work full time. It was more a criticism of myself that I simply didnt have the stamina to do it.

[Bard]

No, I think it's just one of my tender places!

I've got a sister and two sisters-in-law, none of whom work, and although I'm fond of them it can be hard sometimes, especially in the run up to Christmas when they're doing all those yummy mummy things that I haven't got time or cash to do.

B has AS, but we didn't work it out until he was in year 4 after years of being thought of as the spawn of Satan by school. I keep thinking that as I'm a teacher, I should have spotted it earlier, been aware, but at home he was never a problem.

Now I know more about it, I recognise a lot of significant AS traits in OH, but maybe if I'd been a full time mum, I'd have been more switched on about B.

Although we'd have been living in a cardboard box on the M62...surviving on roadkill!

Edited April 21, 2007 by Bard

[Noetic]

Lucas, AS was initally termed "Autistic Psychopathy".... Just because a nation has no better word for something it doesn't mean they aren't trying to understand... And this wasn't in Korea anyway, this was in America.

 

Anyway, if this proves anything, it shows that people who are bullied and not taken seriously snap... one day. Hardly something we didn't know already... I refuse to judge anyone (press etc.) for mentioning autism until they actually say that it had anything to do with what he did.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Noetic

[Lucas]

Noetic, Asperger made a very careful explaination for his use of the word 'psychopathy' and he emphasised that he had not intended for it to be confused with psychosis or psychoticism. Korea continues to relate Autism directly to psychotocism. The man was Korean and his mental problems first became apparent and some reports are saying he was diagnosed Autistic in Korea as a child.

 

We don't actually have any evidence that this guy was bullied, or any that the Columbine shooters were in fact bullied. They all shared a persecution complex which is why they chose their targets indiscriminately: they thought they were shooting those who deserved it but in their minds, everyone they came across in their sprees seemed to fit their criteria for deserving it. What is certainly obvious is that they all did it for one thing: fame and notoriety and they have all succeeded. It's a mission that can't be failed, but can always be improved upon. Cho managed this by making his own propaganda and mailing it to NBC just before he restarted his killing. It now means that the next school shooter has a bar higher to reach.

 

We still have no idea why such shootings occur because as far as I know, a school shooter has yet to be captured alive.

[Suze]

Not everyone who is bullied and is not taken seriously "snaps"...............................

[Mumble]

Anyway, if this proves anything, it shows that people who are bullied and not taken seriously snap... one day.

 

I was bullied throughout my primary and secondary education, both physically and verbally. I was bullied during the beginning of my university course. My difficulties were not taken seriously by my schools, my parents, or by a number of professionals I saw in trying to get a diagnosis. This does not automatically mean that I am going to 'snap'. I hate violence, I am a very placid/passive person (too much in some respects) and what you say really angers me, for it simply replaces the variables in the media links being made.

 

To those of you sending me cyber-hugs and helping me to think things through a little more rationally - thanks, it really does mean a lot to know that I have somewhere where people will listen to my concerns, even when they are slightly irrational concerns and I have got myself into a bit (or a lot!) of a flap - thank you

 

Mumble.

[Suze]

Thats how I feel Mumble, my son dislikes violence too, and also gets very upset if he see,s people behaving that way.

[pearl]

No, I think it's just one of my tender places!

I've got a sister and two sisters-in-law, none of whom work, and although I'm fond of them it can be hard sometimes, especially in the run up to Christmas when they're doing all those yummy mummy things that I haven't got time or cash to do.

B has AS, but we didn't work it out until he was in year 4 after years of being thought of as the spawn of Satan by school. I keep thinking that as I'm a teacher, I should have spotted it earlier, been aware, but at home he was never a problem.

Now I know more about it, I recognise a lot of significant AS traits in OH, but maybe if I'd been a full time mum, I'd have been more switched on about B.

Although we'd have been living in a cardboard box on the M62...surviving on roadkill!

<'> Bard) <'> dont beat yourself up, we all do the best we can & often the closer you are to someone the harder it is to work out whats going on, particularly as you say that B was not a problem at home. I was special needs governor at J's school, my GP's son was there & dx'd (by her) with ADHD, she went full tilt down that road, from one step removed I could SEE the AS traits clearly but couldnt go barging in as it wasnt my place to, all I could do was drop hints, like "I'm going to a talk about the difference between ADHD & AS, fancy coming?" It was a full 2 years later I finally got the phone call from her asking for info on AS, & she too felt, I'm a professional, how did I miss this? He's now doing v well in a specialist AS college.

[David Matthew Baker]

I know I snapped when I was bullied eventually. It isn't good to bottle up things and dwell on it. What really annoyed me as the school had been told it was going on and had done little to stop it. The thing was when I snap I normally go off it for a few seconds and more or less shock myself out of it. For example one time I snapped I had called the teacher across first then turned and hit the bully as he made let another comment to me. Immediatally I looked very ashamed and worried. I knew what I had done was wrong. Most people I believe are like that. They may lose it but they won't like it and will quickly cool back down again. It takes a lot to make me lose it but when I do I find it hard to control myself but only for a very short time. What he did though was planned. The fact it took place in two areas show it wasn't an immediate response to some sort of comment. Most people (NT or otherwise) wouldn't allow themselves to go on a rampage killing people they don't even know. If I was ever made angry that anger was always direct towards the person who made me angry. Mind you making me angry takes a lot. I have a long fuse and don't like physical violence. Never have, never will. I've never liked boxing or anything like that either.

 

I think that he probably wasn't of sound mind but what I have seen of Autism doesn't relate to what I have heard of his character. At the special school if the students lost it they were normally akin to what I was like when I lost it. Okay one or two could stay very wound up for a long time but their anger was very specifically targeted towards whoever had caused the problem in the first place. The main thing I blame each time I hear about problems like this in the states in American culture. Yes it can happen elsewhere but at least here it is a lot harder to get your hands on the weapons to do such things. Guns are far too easily available out there. I must admit the States has never been high on my list of places to visit because I do class it unsafe. I always get the feeling that everyone in America is too happy to resort to a gun. Just look at how the police out there respond to any incidents.

[Cat]

Got the following today - this is much better I feel

 

Don't blame autism for Cho's behavior

BY KIRAN KRISHNAMURTHY / MEDIA GENERAL NEWS SERVICE

Apr 21, 2007

 

Classmates described Seung-Hui Cho as painfully quiet, and a relative

overseas said he was diagnosed with autism after arriving in the

United States.

 

But experts say autism does not cause the kind of violent behavior

that Cho unleashed at Virginia Tech, killing 32 students and

professors, and then himself.

 

John Bonvillian, a University of Virginia psychologist who studies

autism, said Cho might indeed have had Asperger's disorder, a milder

variant within the same medical spectrum as autism.

 

Asperger's symptoms can include the inability to connect socially and

extremely awkward behavior - the kind that might attract taunts and

ridicule.

 

But the gunman also might have had paranoid schizophrenia, which can

trigger violence.

 

"Listening to his sorts of rants, you would think more of paranoid

schizophrenia, " he said. "It's a very rare combination, but it's in

the realm of possibility that he had both" paranoid schizophrenia and

Asperger's, Bonvillian said yesterday.

 

Bonvillian and other experts cautioned that it's tough, if not

impossible, for them to reach conclusions based only on media reports

and the widely seen video segments Cho made.

 

"He's going to be difficult to figure out because he's no longer with

us," said Mary Muscari, author of "Not My Kid: 21 Steps to Raising a

Non-Violent Child" and director of forensic health and nursing at the

University of Scranton in Pennsylvania.

 

Muscari agreed Cho could have had Asperger's. "It is kind of a geeky,

odd kid who doesn't fit in. He's a target for bullies," she said in

generally describing someone with the developmental disorder.

 

"He had some peculiar behavior," she said of Cho. "Telling people to

call him Question Mark, always wearing the sunglasses. I don't think

he was making a statement. He was trying to block people out."

 

Robert Ressler, the retired FBI profiler who is credited with coining

the term "serial killer," said he thinks Cho had an inadequate-

personality disorder with psychopathic overtones.

 

"Oftentimes there are sexual underpinnings to inadequacy," he said,

noting authorities say Cho stalked two Virginia Tech students in

2005, leading to two encounters with police. High school classmates

say they never saw him interact with girls.

 

Ressler added that Cho seemed "so mission-oriented. That would go

against schizophrenia and more toward psychopathy. "

 

Muscari said Cho's apparent level of organization, as evidenced by

the multimedia manifesto he mailed to NBC between Monday's shootings,

could be evidence of psychopathy.

 

Cho's great-aunt said the family constantly worried about Cho.

 

"From the beginning, he wouldn't answer me," Kim Yang-soon, Cho's

great aunt, told Associated Press Television News from South Korea.

He "didn't talk. Normally sons and mothers talk. There was none of

that for them. He was very cold."

 

"When they went to the United States, they told them it was autism,"

said Kim, 85.

 

The family arrived in the United States in 1992, when Cho was about 8.

 

Cho's uncle gave a similar account but said there were no early

indications that the boy had serious problems. Cho "didn't talk much

when he was young. He was very quiet, but he didn't display any

peculiarities to suggest he may have problems," said the uncle, who

asked to be identified only by his last name, Kim.

 

In a statement for the family, Cho's sister, Sun-Kyung Cho, said

yesterday: "My brother was quiet and reserved, yet struggled to fit

in."

 

Bonvillian said autism is typically diagnosed when children are 2 or

3, an age at which Cho was still in Korea. "Someone would have had to

miss it pretty badly not to see it then," he said. Schizophrenia is

generally diagnosed between the ages of 15 and 25, he added.

 

James Kauffman, a retired University of Virginia education

behaviorist, dismissed any possible link between Cho's violence and

autism.

 

"I don't see any connection to autism at all, even if he was

diagnosed," Kauffman said. "It doesn't wash."

 

Clint Van Zandt, another retired FBI profiler, said he could not call

to mind any serial killer who was autistic. "None," he said.

 

 

 

__._,_.___

[baddad]

Now that makes much more balanced reading......

Sadly, for many the damage will already have been done and a completely inappropriate association made between autism and violence that just isn't backed up by the majority of evidence...

People should be FORCED to read the whole article and not just the headlines!!

Hows that for a balanced view!!

 

Thanks for the update, CAT

 

L&P

 

BD

[Frangipani]

Now that makes much more balanced reading......

Sadly, for many the damage will already have been done and a completely inappropriate association made between autism and violence that just isn't backed up by the majority of evidence...

People should be FORCED to read the whole article and not just the headlines!!

Hows that for a balanced view!!

 

Thanks for the update, CAT

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Here! Here!

 

[Canopus]

I think that he probably wasn't of sound mind but what I have seen of Autism doesn't relate to what I have heard of his character.

 

Something to take into account is whether the British definition of autism is different to the American definition of autism. I have seen job adverts for positions involving AS and ASD that specify a degree in psychology from a UK university.

[butterfingersbimbo]

i didn't realise that there was a conection being made to autism!

 

its so sad that this could happen but have to agree with a previous post that you know its going to be in america before you hear that it was, and you also know its going to take up most of the news when there are other bigger things going on in the world.......

[chriss]

Thank you for posting that Cat! It was a far more honest article about the effects Cho's autism had on him.

 

 

One thing that angers me about this is that people are coming forward in droves to say how much Cho was bullied and ridiculed but no-one would or could help him. There is still this feeling that schoolkids are entitled to be mean to each other, to "peck" at the more vulnerable amongst them, to feed their own egos at the expense of other peoples feelings. When I complain at school about things that have been said to my son the teacher promises to keep a close eye on things but I can tell she is thinking "what do you expect?".

 

Children HAVE to be taught more respect for each other. It is possible to improve things. I see "Life on Mars " as a good example of how attitudes have changed greatly in the Police force over the past 30 years. It was a good depiction of how officers felt they had to treat suspects with a lot less respect than they do today but policeman today wouldn't dream of using such overbearing tactics now even if they could (most of the time I think!).

[pearl]

Just something to cheer us all up .... there was a 3 page spread in the Observer today, admittedly I skimmed it a bit but I did not notice one reference to autism.