Overcoming Autism

[mumble_rocks]

Theres an article on a man that has apperently overcome Autism. ITV This morning today at 11.00

[carrieq]

Was just about to mention this, you beat me to it!! Heading out to a meeting at ds school so have sky + it!!

Carrie

[Pets74]

just about to come and say the same. he was Cured! Whatever!!!!!

[Pets74]

i am so angry. i work with my lad every single bleeding day too." he was cured in 3 years," god's sake i have been doing all this for 8 years and .....d'you know what, never mind, so gonna start swearing.

get all the parents searching for a cure and empty their pockets.

[Mumble]

OMG what utter and total ######.

 

I really didn't need this coming today - it is little wonder autism is so misunderstood. When will profit making companies stop playing on the fears of desperate parents and allow autistic children and adults to be who they are?

 

For the record, I do not 'suffer' from autism, and for the record, despite what he said, autism is a lifelong condition. You are autistic or you aren't - sorry if that upsets anyone but that's the way it is. He is totally deluded and wrong to say that we in the UK have things wrong by saying it is lifelong - it is and the sooner people come to realise and accept that the sooner they can help the individual be who they are.

 

You don't treat autism - you support the individual through their weaknesses whilst recognising their strengths. You can be cured of a cold - you can't be cured of autism and anyone who says they can do this is a very dangerous person and should not be given airtime where desperate parents may subject their children to 'treatments' that will be costly, ineffectual and possibly downright dangerous. What they were doing was simply good parenting, getting to knwo the chid - nothing more. The changes would have happened regardless -it's called child development.

 

And his statement that he graduated with a degree from an Ivey league university as 'proof' somehow of his cure? - well where does that leave me - I'm doing a PhD in a top university but I am still very much autistic - why can't achievement and autism be considered together - why do we need a cure to achieve? - we don't.

 

And then to Fern's question of 'so what is austism?' - well if I hear communicaion disorder one more time without explanation of what this means and without acknowloedgement of everything else autism encompasses - I think the phrase is 'if I had a pound for everytime I hear that . . '

 

So well done 'This Morning' - you have set back understanding, seemingly portrayed the need for treatment and possibly created agony in parents who only want the best for their children - great work for an 8 minute interview.

[ellisisamazing]

Time to complain to ITV methinks!!

 

Lets all report this!

[Pets74]

it's blaming ther parents for not working hard enough., its a disgrace how dare they show that on tv, where was the professionals explaining what autism is? how dare they say it's communication! how dare they make money out of people who are desparately searching for a cure.

my son isn't suffering for gods sake. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Pets74]

who do i complain to? is it this morning or ITV?

[baddad]

I didn't see it, so can't comment on the content of the prog, but that 'overcoming autism' is a bit misleading.

Every day autistic people are successfully navigating a bewildering number of factors that arise in their lives as a consequence of autism - be they social, personal or practical. That's 'overcoming' problems - but that's not the same as 'overcoming' autism...

I deliberately avoided a topic on the boards at the moment about a fund-raising event, because I knew i'd end up getting all aeriated! Not by the fund-raising, of course, by the way the money raised would be spent.

There are lots of things that can be done to help people 'overcome' autism, in the same way that there are lots of things that can be done to help the physically disabled overcome some of the barriers they face. The annoying, frustrating, completely ******* about it is that in the latter case they are viewed as 'aids' or 'interventions', while in the former they insist on talking quite ridiculously about 'cures'.

 

L&P

 

BD

[smiley]

Have little one home today - he decided to try flying at his daddys' at the weekend - ended up with a squished foot! So i wasn't able watch this - thank god! Sounds bloomin' dreadful -

[Mumble]

Well I would complain but I wonder how much good it would do - I complained to the BBC for their appalling portrayal of AS and about 2 months later I got an email back 'thanking me for my correspondence and saying that they had tried to portray stereotypes to challenge them' - or some such utter ######.

 

Maybe if we all complained however . . . they gave a website - I'm going to see what's on there.

[Mumble]

It's the Son-Rise programme - though they never mentioned that in the interview. This link gives the info about that programme, and This second link gives detailes of how to contact complain to the programme.

[wishingwell]

I wonder if he has children himself.

I would be curious to know could he still pass autism on through his genes to his children. (Saying as he is cured)

 

Personally think his parents have done a wonderful job and have improved his quality of life.

 

There is no cure. It is wrong to portray it as a cure.

 

I'm very angry that I was subjected to listen to that.

 

A thought, 'I would be very angry if my son was to say 'he is cured' when he is older just because he is good at talking. I would put him straight.'

My son thinks his Aspergers is the reason he's so special and has said that he wouldn't like to be NT because he would lose his special strengths.

 

Thanks Mumble for posting the links.

[Mumble]

Absolutley, Wishingwell - I'm happy being AS - I don't want to be NT - to me (and no offence to anyone) NTs are rather wierd and illogical. If you took away my AS I wouldn't be NT - I would be no-one and fit nowhere.

 

I would be curious to know could he still pass autism on through his genes to his children. (Saying as he is cured)

That is a line I like - I might just use that when I have any unfortunate encounter with a 'cured' autistic.

[badonkadonk]

Curing Autism article from This Morning website

 

Think I might be emailing this addy shortly

 

thismorning@itv.com

 

This Son-Rise programme is the thing that my cousin has been raising money for, for the last few years, so she can ship her kid off to get cured

 

I know some people on here are big fans of Son-Rise and I'm sorry that I don't agree, I'm not trying to start an argument, I really don't want to debate on the issue because we will just butt heads over and over again.

 

*puts blanket over head and shuts world out*

 

Oops curse my ability to take ages to post....soz Mumble, I could only see your second post when I started writing

Edited September 24, 2007 by badonkadonk

[Pets74]

i am not a fan of son rise either

[pearl]

I didnt see the prog this morning (posting from work, shhhh, but its lunch hour now)

 

I was on the Son Rise mailing list for many years. I was once tempted to spend the best part of 2 grand when they were doing a course in England. I asked JP's outreach teacher should I go for it, he said, I can think of better ways to spend your money, I said, such as? He said, errrrr.... precisely, at that time there was nowhere else I could go to learn how to help my child. However I took his advice & saved my money.

 

I think some of the principles in the programme are good - accepting your child as he is, joining in with his activities etc. But the cure thing bothers me.

 

Can I ask those of you who saw the prog, did Raun Kaufmann appear "cured" or would you say he was HFA or AS compared to the classically autistic child he had been? I've never seen footage of him as a grown up & would be interested to know.

[Mumble]

Can I ask those of you who saw the prog, did Raun Kaufmann appear "cured" or would you say he was HFA or AS compared to the classically autistic child he had been? I've never seen footage of him as a grown up & would be interested to know.

Well I'm not sure people look 'AS' or look 'HFA'

 

Do you mean - did he look 'normal' - then yes, did he make eye contact - yes, did he use body language - I think so

 

He said 'after 3 years all the autism had been removed'. He was asked if there was anything autistic about him - he said no - he was a normal person.

[pearl]

Well I'm not sure people look 'AS' or look 'HFA'

 

Do you mean - did he look 'normal' - then yes, did he make eye contact - yes, did he use body language - I think so

 

He said 'after 3 years all the autism had been removed'. He was asked if there was anything autistic about him - he said no - he was a normal person.

 

So where does that leave us? Was his original dx wrong (which seems a cop out)? This isnt a popular question to ask, I know, but if he was autistic, now believes he is not, and appears NT, what then? I dont believe in "cures" either, but Raun Kaufmann "appears" to be "cured". Even if he is the only autistic person ever to have "recovered", if he indeed did, then it must be possible. Or he is AS & in denial?

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone here, honestly - its just that the Kaufmanns story has always bothered me, & I simply don't know what to think.

[Mumble]

So where does that leave us? Was his original dx wrong (which seems a cop out)? This isnt a popular question to ask, I know, but if he was autistic, now believes he is not, and appears NT, what then? I dont believe in "cures" either, but Raun Kaufmann "appears" to be "cured". Even if he is the only autistic person ever to have "recovered", if he indeed did, then it must be possible. Or he is AS & in denial?

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone here, honestly - its just that the Kaufmanns story has always bothered me, & I simply don't know what to think.

I didn't say he was cured - I said he didn't 'look' autistic, but I don't think people do look autistic. I don't look different - you can 't look at me and say I'm autistic and I find the idea that I might not be autistic because I don't look autistic quite offensive. I have enough trouble getting people who don't understand to see that there might be something different.

 

All the people like Emily, myself, The Neil, Bid etc. who were diagnosed as adults - we didn't suddenly look different - we've all always been autistic but as we know it can be very difficult to 'see'.

 

I can't tell from an 8 minute interview if he is HFA - I could come across as 'normal' as he came across in that interview. I think it's very very wrong to ask if he looks normal as some sort of evidence of cure. The whole proble so many of us (and parents) have is that we do 'look normal'.

 

Either he was wrongly diagnosed originally or he is AS.

[Pets74]

I didnt see the prog this morning (posting from work, shhhh, but its lunch hour now)

 

I was on the Son Rise mailing list for many years. I was once tempted to spend the best part of 2 grand when they were doing a course in England. I asked JP's outreach teacher should I go for it, he said, I can think of better ways to spend your money, I said, such as? He said, errrrr.... precisely, at that time there was nowhere else I could go to learn how to help my child. However I took his advice & saved my money.

 

I think some of the principles in the programme are good - accepting your child as he is, joining in with his activities etc. But the cure thing bothers me.

 

Can I ask those of you who saw the prog, did Raun Kaufmann appear "cured" or would you say he was HFA or AS compared to the classically autistic child he had been? I've never seen footage of him as a grown up & would be interested to know.

yes but don't you accept your child anyway? don't you spend time with them anyway? i think it's a con to get cash out of people who are desparate for a cure.

i have seen a few programmes on the son rise thing and i don't believe it cures anything. i don't think there is a cure, i think that you can support and find coping mechanisms, and i think there can be improvemnet, but i don't believe that anyone who was as severe as he says he was could be like he is now. my son is at the severe end, and every day is spent working with him, he gets 2 days off a year. i feel that the implicatuion is that if our kids are severe then its our fault as parents that they are-going back to the classic bad parenting syndrome. quite frankly i think it's a pile of poo. just my opinion but there it is. we have no leaps, we have baby steps and then regression and then baby steps and then regression. and the fact that some ass hole is on tv telling everyone this cack has made it worse. how many people are gonna be watching that and then go "oh it can be cured you know, it's just a communication problem"?

[mum23]

Oh well more stuff to back up the school folk whom already think I am not helping my kids enough at home!! I can not wait for the suggestions and advice the SENCO might come up with now.

[Mumble]

I think it's very interesting that This Media Response has appeared on the NAS website. Perhaps because on the This Morning website they have the Autism Treatment Centre weblink alongside the NAS weblink.

 

I'm thinking that I might just write a letter - it will make me feel better if nothing else.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Mumble

[pearl]

I didn't say he was cured - I said he didn't 'look' autistic, but I don't think people do look autistic. I don't look different - you can 't look at me and say I'm autistic and I find the idea that I might not be autistic because I don't look autistic quite offensive. I have enough trouble getting people who don't understand to see that there might be something different.

 

All the people like Emily, myself, The Neil, Bid etc. who were diagnosed as adults - we didn't suddenly look different - we've all always been autistic but as we know it can be very difficult to 'see'.

 

I can't tell from an 8 minute interview if he is HFA - I could come across as 'normal' as he came across in that interview. I think it's very very wrong to ask if he looks normal as some sort of evidence of cure. The whole proble so many of us (and parents) have is that we do 'look normal'.

 

Either he was wrongly diagnosed originally or he is AS.

 

I didnt say you said he was cured - I was interested to know what HE thought. And given that AS is primarily dx'd through observation, thought it was reasonable to ask how he seemed.

I can only reiterate, I'm not defending the Son Rise program - this lad appeared to have classical autism & now appears "cured" - I struggle with that, is all.

[pearl]

yes but don't you accept your child anyway? don't you spend time with them anyway? i think it's a con to get cash out of people who are desparate for a cure.

i have seen a few programmes on the son rise thing and i don't believe it cures anything. i don't think there is a cure, i think that you can support and find coping mechanisms, and i think there can be improvemnet, but i don't believe that anyone who was as severe as he says he was could be like he is now. my son is at the severe end, and every day is spent working with him, he gets 2 days off a year. i feel that the implicatuion is that if our kids are severe then its our fault as parents that they are-going back to the classic bad parenting syndrome. quite frankly i think it's a pile of poo. just my opinion but there it is. we have no leaps, we have baby steps and then regression and then baby steps and then regression. and the fact that some ass hole is on tv telling everyone this cack has made it worse. how many people are gonna be watching that and then go "oh it can be cured you know, it's just a communication problem"?

 

I'm talking about 10 years ago Pets, when I was less informed than I am now. At that time I was desperate to learn about anything which looked like it might help my child. Given that there are parenting courses for those struggling to parent NT children, I'd have been glad of a parenting course to help me learn about ASD, & that was all seemingly on offer at the time. But I didnt do it & now am glad.

[Pets74]

so sorry pearl it wasn't all aimed at you. i just need to learn to quote the bits i am responding to which was the principals bit. (like the accepting thing).

i am still a bit angry cos i know i am going to have the witch phoning me later asking why i haven't cured him yet. it was the same when she watched that dog thing that was on at christmas.

sorry pearl, i will practice my quoting.

[pearl]

<'> Pets <'> no offence taken hun.

We all grow & develop along with our children & learn as we go, and tbh if anyone had offered JP a cure when he was tiny I'd have gone for it, because at that time I viewed his autism very differently.

 

But not any more.

 

We've come a long way since then, and now I wouldn't have him any other way, its part of his warp & weft, & I couldnt imagine him any different. It just saddens me that the NT world poses such challenges for him & would do anything to make life easier for him - but NOW that involves tackling the outside issues which make life difficult for him, not necessarily expecting him to conform, if that makes sense.

[Paula]

 

I watched the interview with this man and i was angry too.

 

 

I can accept that someone with auttism especialy aspergers syndrome can "appear" relativly normal to the untrianed eye or in like this interview which was a short controlled meeting come across as NTI can accept that with help they can learn to fit in .But i will never never beleive or accept that autism is something which can be cured and isnot a life long condition because i beleive it is.

 

I used to take a kanners autistic young man to a day care centre i was his escort..........he was none verbal,and just did repetative ticks and made sounds over and over againe punctuated with the occasional scream......this man could understand me because if i asked him to look at something he would respond,he would smile when he saw me and clapp his hands ..........his parents were doing every thing they could .........they were doctors ,one was a consultant peadiotrician.now is this bloke on the box saying that there naff parents for not "joining" him in his world so he can enter theires and be cured.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Paula

[Pets74]

i feel like he is taking us back to the start. with the bad parenting

makes it so much harder when you're already surrounded by sceptics.

[Mumble]

I didnt say you said he was cured - I was interested to know what HE thought. And given that AS is primarily dx'd through observation, thought it was reasonable to ask how he seemed.

I can only reiterate, I'm not defending the Son Rise program - this lad appeared to have classical autism & now appears "cured" - I struggle with that, is all.

It's alright Pearl - I'm just feeling very sensitive at the mo having sent 'the email' yesterday.

 

AS, as far as I'm aware, and I don't know a huge amount about diagnosis in kids, isn't primarily dignosed by observation but by interpretations of observation.

 

Now on this guy - I've never heard of him before. One thing that did strike me though was how early he was diagnosed as autistic and how early his parents say he was 'written off'. Again, not something I'm an expert in, but OK, pick up there might be something going on when they're young, but he was diagnosed as a tiny baby - if we question anything I think we have to look to the original diagnosis.

 

I suppose this make me think of the Kamran Nazeer book 'Send in the Idiots' - he says he's cured in there but I've met him and although he initially can come across as 'normal' out of a situation where this is required, I don't think he does (BTW I'm not saying that's wrong, just that I don't agree with him saying he's 'cured'). My tutor, whose also met him, thinks he's wonderful, and an example - I totally disagree and find it quite patronising - I can see in Kamran things others might not see because I live that life daily.

 

But ultimately cures and cure stories are what sells and until non-cure stories can be made more appealing to the general public than that's where we're stuck. You'll just have to wait for 'Uncured Mumble - The Autobiography' - maybe out in 2050 - just can't see it selling somehow though

Edited September 24, 2007 by Mumble

[pearl]

<'> Mumble

I'll get back to this later, I have to go do my job now.

[Lynden]

I watched it this morning as my Mum told me it was on - and as soon as I heard it was him I was going to switch off, but seeing as I've never heard him talk I thought I'd listen. I actually found him fairly offensive in that he more or less said that brits just sit on their behinds and accept autism as a lifelong illness - I dont believe thats so - I know that Logan gets a lot of help to make his life easier - its just that no one claims they can 'cure him'.

 

I did look into Son Rise before as I know a girl back home who's son has been on it (he's 8 now I think) and although she does report improvements - he's still very much and very obviously autistic.

 

I have to say though re him being cured, or appearing 'normal' when I saw Wendy Lawson on stage talking it was hard to see her as being AS. Most people wouldn't recognise my husband as being AS but he is - he has a family, he has a fairly high level job in the city, he has (one or two) good friends - isn't that all 'normal' but he is still definitely AS.. I actually wonder if Ron Kaufman was autistic in the first place or if he just had other learning difficulties. How do they even do IQ tests at the age he supposedly had them.

 

I dont know - they do have some good ideas but I also believe that if you spend that much time doing one on one (isn't it 40+ hours a week) interaction with your child then they're going to progress regardless of whether you line the Kaufmans pockets or not.

 

Lynne x

Edited September 24, 2007 by Lynden

[Mumble]

I actually wonder if Ron Kaufman was autistic in the first place or if he just had other learning difficulties. How do they even do IQ tests at the age he supposedly had them.

I think that's where I would come from too. You can't do tests at the age he said he had them without wild inaccuracies do the point of the results being meaningless.

[TuX]

have got into other topics about Raun before on NT majority forums,of which a lot of members think those who are classed as autistic,aspergan or adhd should have a good smack to get it out of them,and forget autistic and adhd adults cause all don't exist apparently.

this is why this morning should have researched it more and realised what they say can influence people.

 

am cannot overcome autism,but am can overcome this morning,and turn it over,very recommended to all.

[baddad]

There are many other cases where children who appeared profoundly autistic have grown up to achieve independence, learn appropriate social skills and to live 'Normal' (sorry for that word - I hope no one misunderstands the context in which it's applied) lives. Thankfully, very very few of them have claimed a 'cure' and chosen to create an incredibly expensive programme of 'therapies' from what are - to all intents and purposes - straightforward and entirely logical interventions taken to the nth degree. Few of them either have, thankfully, chosen to distance themselves from their peers and make a further negative from their own (perceived) positive.

 

By the same token, there are many, many cases of children appearing 'normal' or 'mildly affected' whos adult lives have been very different from those anticipated for them, despite exactly the same interventions and support mechanisms being in place for them.

 

Whatever the facts of this one particular case, it represents a minute percentage of the autistic community - an exception rather than anything even approaching a 'rule' - and despite the many millions that have been spent on the Son Rise 'product' by desperate parents there are few convincing examples of 'cured' autistic people coming out the other end.

 

Funny thing is, there are literally 1000's of autistic adults negotiating 'NT Life' with a similar degree of success who would laugh at any suggestion of a cure. They just don't make good telly

 

Next week - a cure for cats! Cats can be more like dogs, you know - it's all down to lazy owners!

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

am cannot overcome autism,but am can overcome this morning,and turn it over,very recommended to all.

Brilliant - great advice for Mumbles!

[bid]

If S-R can successfully 'cure' or 'recover' autistic children, where are they all??

 

I would have thought that if it is as amazing as it promises, we would be reading about and seeing in the media countless stories of its success...

 

Or maybe I'm just being a touch cynical??

 

Oh, and according to quite a number of personal opinions I've read, parents who are into 'curing' or 'recovering' their kids, don't think people with AS are actually autistic, anyway, so we have no right to pass any comments about S-R and it's corporate attitude to autism

 

Bid (cheerfully unrecovered )

[TuX]

Brilliant - great advice for Mumbles!

the off and tv guide buttons are son rise programs for bad morning tv, the buttons don't cure this morning,all them house programmes,loan adverts etc,but they make them a lot....less visual,but for promotional [preying on peoples weaknesses] purposes,call them cured.

 

 

am believe in the son rise program as being worthwhile,but,it is not a cure,it's a therapy that can lessen traits,bit of a difference.

[Mumble]

Oh, and according to quite a number of personal opinions I've read, parents who are into 'curing' or 'recovering' their kids, don't think people with AS are actually autistic, anyway, so we have no right to pass any comments about S-R and it's corporate attitude to autism

Oh, I'm very sorry. And there's me just gone and told the people in my uni that I'm autistic. Oh well - best add 'liar' to stupid and all the others labels ascribable to myself.

[pearl]

OK I'm home from work, fed & watered.

 

Apols to anyone I may have offended - I knew this would be a controversial thread but hope you all know me well enough to know that I celebrate neurodiversity in all its forms (and I want to stick my fingers down my throat having said that but I cant think of a better way of putting it)

 

I spose what I'm trying to say is...

I came across Son Rise, ooh *counts on fingers* about 14 years ago when JP was newly dx'd. I spoke to them several times on the phone, got letters from them for years, & read all the books.

 

I dont believe the Kaufmanns are charlatans. I think they are genuine, energetic, charismatic people who stumbled on a method which appeared to "cure" their son and wanted to share it with others. They have bills to pay, so charge for this. (And remember, Aspergers had a much lower profile in those days, JP was one of the first tranche to be dx'd, so they may not even have realised that this might be just their son moving from classical autism to Aspergers, as sometimes happens)

 

I havent heard of anyone else being cured by this method, but plenty who have benefitted. Its very benign & life affirming.

 

Whilst I was mulling over whether to go down this route with JP, other "cures" started to appear, usually accompanied by books written by parents convinced their child had been cured. Auditory integration therapy (The Sound of a Miracle), the Lovaas method (Let Me Hear Your Voice) the Higashi method ..... there were no independent evaluations of these methods, so I was left thinking, if I choose the wrong method I'll waste years, this window of opportunity may close.... very stressful, and in the end I decided, go down the educational route, get a statement & get expert input into school. Low cost, low tech & effective. And looking back now he's 18 I think I did right.

 

So, Raun Kaufmann. What do we make of him? There are several possibilities:

 

1. He was misdiagnosed. Possible, but if you read the books I can understand why he was dx'd autistic. And surely there would be others who were misdiagnosed & made a similar recovery? I've never come across anyone else.

 

2. He only thinks he's "cured". He's really AS. Again, possible. Plus after all these years of claiming to be cured, there must be huge pressure on him. Maybe deep down he suspects he's AS but could never admit it, else the foundations of Son Rise come crashing down.

 

3. He really is "cured". Now don't jump on me, I'm not saying he is. And if he really is, why is he the only one that we've heard of?

 

I didnt see the programme, but it sounds like he was saying the Brits are way behind the yanks in this area. I beg to differ. I think they are stuck in the time warp, not us. Ten-twenty years ago, autism was regarded as a very negative thing. If you could cure it, woohoo! Its different now. Just as deaf people became politically aware, the same thing is happening in the autistic "community" as evidenced by Autscape, the wealth of websites/forums run by/for autists, etc. I dont think the Kaufmanns have quite grasped that sea-change in attitude.

 

I hope that clarifies what I meant.

This almost qualifies as an Emily-length post

*goes for a lie down in a darkened room*

Edited September 24, 2007 by pearl