Tribunal Update

[lisa]

Hi,

 

Just to let you all know that unfortunately we lost our tribunal. We got the decision today. The panel decided to ignore the fact that Laura is self harming and the advice of 5 professionals who all stated in their reports that she needs 1:1 help, basically because she's doing ok academically. Even though the SENCO categorically stated at the tribunal that the school couldn't even fund 1 hour of 1:1 support for Laura the tribunal decided that they were "satisfied that the school could provide additional support from it's existing resources".

 

I've come to the conclusion that the world has gone mad. I'm totally fed up with the whole system, what is the matter with these people??? Our IPSEA rep was amazed. He feels that if we couldn't even get an assessment for Laura with the overwhelming professional evidence we had what chance is there for any Asperger child.

 

Lisa

[Helen]

Lisa I'm so very sorry to hear this news <'> <'> <'>

 

I'm gutted for you You've put so much effort into trying to get the appropriate help and support for Laura <'>

 

Thinking of you, Helen x

[nellie]

Oh Laura, <'> <'>

 

I am so sorry, <'> I am stunned! Words fail me!

 

Nellie xx

[oracle]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

 

This is sheer madness and I agree with your IPSEA rep - come the revolution - and that probably begins with the anouncement of the date for the next General Election, we will need as many parents as we can muster.

 

Are you with us girl? The dress code will be is optional or come as you are right now

 

Something has to give and that's for sure.

 

Carole

[Kathryn]

Lisa,

 

I have been thinking of you over the past couple of weeks and am just so sorry and angry to hear this.

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

 

(I agree with you Carole - where, oh where is our Jamie Oliver?? )

 

K

[KarenT]

Sorry to hear this Lisa. Being new to the forum I don't know your history, but it sounds as though you've been through the mill and it must be soul-destroying to have your hopes dashed. Is there anywhere you can go from here? What did IPSEA say about the outcome?

 

Karen

x

[mossgrove]

Lisa

 

I am so sorry it has come to this. I know from past postings that we have similar situations with our children.

 

I think you have falled foul of something that operates in our area too. I am sure this is not what you want to hear right now, and re-entering the fray is probably the last thing you want to do but this is what I think the Tribunal meant:

 

In financial terms, the LEA assume that the first 5 units of financial provision (12 units being full time 1:1) are the responsibility of the school, and can be met out of their SEN funding. Unless they think that the child has needs over and above 5 units of provision they will not assess as they assume that the school is able to provide for those needs, and there is no need for a statement as provision of 5 units or less would not release any extra funding from the LEA. I suspect that most LEA's take a similar line.

 

If they provide provision and problems persist you have an excellent case for asessment. If you are asking for more than 5 units of provison when the school aren't providing any then it's probably not too suprising that they conclude that we need to see what happens when the 5 units of provision is put in place before assessing with a view to a statement. If she is doing academically OK with no provision, they were obviously not convinced there is enough evidence thus far that she needs more than 5 units of provision. They have taken the view that the school has those 5 units of resouce and despite what the SENCO says, they have SEN funding that Laura is entitled to part of.

 

This is why your SENCO is absolutely wrong. Your school has special needs funding and if Laura needs help they are obliged to provide it. The Tribunal was, in effect, saying that they were not convinced that a statement should be provided to to make up a shortfall between what the school is legally obliged to do and what it proposed to do. They school simply do not have the right to decline to provide provision up to and including 5 units (roughly 10 hours 1:1)and that is perhaps where you need to look next. If your school are denying that Laura has any special needs at all that is a different issue, but if they are saying Lauras has special needs but they do not intend to provide for them, that is an outrage and should not be allowed. Even if you were successful in getting a statement the school would only get extra money for provision over and above the five units, so the school would still need to fund 5/12 of a full-time 1:1, so a refusal up-front to fund any provision is not a good start.

 

I honestly think that the problem is the school and not, as it first seems, the Tribunal. If you can get the school to acknowledge their obligations and provide some 1:1 support then you still have a chace of getting a statement in the future if Laura still has problems. If they continue to refuse to do what they are legally obliged to do, then it is going to be a rocky road ahead.

 

Hopefully your IPSEA rep should be able to advise on how to tackle the school as they need to recognise their obligations before this can move forward.

 

Simon

Edited April 1, 2005 by mossgrove

[bid]

<'> Oh Lisa, I'm so sorry <'>

 

I'm afraid I don't have enough experience to offer any more advice, but do hang in there and don't give up, even though it feels as though everything is against you at the moment

 

Thinking of you all <'>

 

Bidx

[nellie]

Simon,

 

I understand what you're saying and I would agree if this was a request for a statement that was being refused but I believe it's a request for a statutory assessment!!

 

Surely LEA's have a duty to assess a child's needs and we're not just talking academic needs we are talking about complex needs. If an assessment was done then maybe the school would understand the needs that were to be met.

 

If a school and outside agencies can't or won't understand a child's complex needs and put provision in place to meet them, what is a parent supposed to??? Not all parents have the funds for private assessments.

 

Quote from ACE Special Education Handbook:

In some cases parents and schools might well argue that it is impossible to judge the complexity and severity of the child's needs without a full statutory assessment.

 

Sorry Simon, I get riled at the injustice of it all. There is a law to protect those children and it is being abused.

 

Nellie xx

[mossgrove]

Nellie

 

It makes me angry too! I was just trying to explain what I think is going on in terms of the process, which is that LEA's are increasingly declining to assess if the school is not providing any help from within it's SEN provision. In that sense the Tribunal were doing what they had been told to do. This doen't mean I agree with it!

 

It is going to become a major issue in the next few years because if this becomes the norm then no child who does not get support from school will get assessed with a viw to a staement. It stinks, but that is the system and we all have to do our best within it until such time as as the rules change.

 

Our 5 yo old has 10 hours of 1:1 support funded by the school which was agreed by the previous headmaster before he started at the school. The current headmistress called us into a meeting to explain that due to funding restrictions she would not be providing any support after all. We only got the 1:1 support because my partner refused point blank to leave her office until she agreed to honour the commitment. An hour and a half later the headmistress gave in. She did this because we knew we would be unable to get an asessment until the school put the support in.

 

I know schools are caught between a rock and a hard place, especially if they have large numbers of children with SEN, but as a parent, forcing the school to honour their commtments is increasingly becoming part of the process. I know that's easier said than done!

 

As a consequence of this, and insisting the school met all the provisions in the statement for our 7yo who is at the same school, our relationship with the school has collapsed as they feel we are being unreasonable, when in practice we are guilty of nothing more than asking them to honour their commitments. We are now looking for alternative placements for our 7yo and awaiting a decsion on whther or not our 5yo gets an assessment.

 

Please do not interpret my posting as meaning that everything is OK, I know it isn't!

 

Simon

[nellie]

Simon,

 

Of course I realise you are not agreeing with this. I am not attacking you personally just letting off steam and venting my anger.

 

The law says an LEA must assess a child for a statement if there is a 'probability' that ordinary schools cannot meet all the child's special educational needs from the resources normally available to them. If this probability is confirmed by assessment then a statement must be issued.

 

When we are talking about children with complex needs, how can schools be expected to know what the child's needs are and how can LEA's say the schools can meet the child's needs without carrying out an assessment.

 

LEA's are not carrying out their legal duty and are using the new code as a 'get out clause'.

 

At least Scotland were upfront when they ceased Records of Needs (Statements) this government is trying to do it by playing 'dirty'.

 

I think I've calmed down now Simon. Thanks for listening.

 

Nellie xx

[bevalee]

So sorry to hear your news Laura! <'> <'> <'>

[Jericho]

 

Sorry that you didn't get the outcome that you and Laura needed.

[claire]

Hi, I just wondered - have you spoken to your IPSEA rep about the possiblity of appealing the decision? I know that you can appeal if SENDIST have made error on a point of law. I am aware that there is a direction that many panels are following being that the child will need to be viewed as proberbly needing a statement before the assessment is initiated. How can anyone know the true extent of a child's needs without fully assessing them? Although the appeal was against the LEA refusing to assess, the fact that the school cannot provide from their own budget what your daughter needs would seem to me that the LEA would have a duty to assess and then make provision. I recently went to tribunal for my own son, it is such a stressful experience.

 

Best wishes, Claire

[lisa]

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies and support. <'> <'>

 

The school are refusing to see Laura's needs and we've had to get private reports done. These reports all recommend some 1:1 support for Laura. The system as it stands is extremely unfair. If Laura's school refuses to accept that she needs any 1:1 support then they don't have to provide it from their budget because she doesn't have a statement. They have continually "played down" her difficulties throughout and are in my opinion behaving disgracefully. Although the LEA are saying they now delegate the budget to schools for children with Laura's level of difficulties the school doesn't supply any 1:1 support whatsoever for any child in their school who doesn't have a statement. What happens to all the children who would previously have had a statement for less than 10 hours per week? They go unsupported and are left to get on with it, that's what!

 

Our IPSEA rep is brilliant. He's faxed the decision to their legal team and they think we may possibly have grounds to ask the tribunal to reconsider it's decision. It's a very slim chance though but it's worth a try. We're also going to write to the school as they were critised in the tribunal's decision and ask for them to implement the recommendations and give them a term to do it. If they don't set it up by September that would give us grounds to ask for assessment and appeal. If we put in another request for assessment and try to appeal to the tribunal before the LEA would be able to simply refuse and request that our appeal be struck out.

 

Unfortunately this is a real setback for Laura but I'm not going to take no for an answer. They may have won this round but I'll keep fighting for her no matter. If the school thought I was a pain in the backside before "they ain't seen nothing yet". She'll be the most supported SA+ child in the borough when I'm finished with them.

 

Lisa

[bid]

You go girl!

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Lisa,

 

Stay strong and keep chipping away at the system. It's sad but true that being a pain in the backside is the only way to get what your child needs.

 

K

[Yorkie]

Keep your fighting trousers on girl....you can do it!!!!

 

Dont let the b***ards get you down...... have another beer, another cry and then keep on going love....................

 

Fingers crossed for you chick xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Kazzen161]

R's psychiatrist wrote to the school:

 

"His main needs appear to be centred around learning, appropriate learning support and appropriate support for him to achieve within the school. This must involve assessing what R's strengths and capabilities are and where his areas of weakness lie. I may be naive but I cannot see how to do this without a more formal assessment of those abilities probably involving the EP, but of course this is a matter for them to decide".

 

The EP decided no assessments would be done.

 

I am in a similar situation with R - he needs more support at school - they say they have no money/staff/resources to do so. According to his half-year progress report, he is doing well in all subjects - even in French which he has never attended! I can see no option but to ask for him to be assessed for a statement, even though I feel that one should not be necessary.

 

Karen

[lisa]

According to his half-year progress report, he is doing well in all subjects - even in French which he has never attended!

 

Karen,

 

This is a typical example of what we're up against, the school reporting how well your son did in a subject he doesn't even attend. They're so frightened that they're going to have to provide the support from their own resources due to the governments policy of reducing statements that they forget about the child and can only think of the cost and how to avoid it. Last year before Laura got refused statutory assessment by the LEA the school were saying that they thought she was worse than my son (who already has a statement). I've never seen anyone backtrack so fast once they knew the LEA wouldn't be paying. Now they're saying she's fine.

 

Lisa

[admum]

Im so sorry. Perhaps your local Mp could intervene with the school. I agree that the system here sucks. I hope that you can appeal. Good luck

[Elefan]

Lisa,

 

I'm gutted for you.

 

You have been so brave going through the tribunal process. You deserved a better ooutcome for you hard efforts.

 

Thinking of you and your family and hope that someone or something happens to give you some hope.

 

Take care,

 

Elefan

xx

[puffin]

Lisa I'm really sorry for you -this is a really bad decision.

 

Now you must muster all your energy to fight the school to provide some sort of support on SA/SA+ if that is what the tribunal says they must do.

 

Is there a possiblity of moving school? I was in a similar position a year ago and moved my daughter to another local school where the support has been amazing.

 

You could alos try putting pressure on your local councillors/parliamentary candidates with the general election looming.

[lisa]

Another update.

 

Our man from IPSEA has drafted the most amazing letter to the school's governors with our requests for support and asking them to implement the tribunal's recommendations without delay (although the decision wasn't in our favour they did criticise the school's failure to properly support her and made recommendations). We haven't sent it yet, we want to make sure we get it right. We've said that in the absence of any clinical evidence to the contrary they must except our reports recommending 1:1 support and if they cannot provide it from their budget this term and L's situation hasn't improved, we'll be requesting another statutory assessment and will expect the schools full backing!

 

IPSEA have also done a fabulous job of our letter to the tribunal asking for a reconsideration. It's a slim chance and I'm positive it'll be turned down but you never know, it's worth a try. Their whole legal team have been involved with this letter and they've made a very good case for reviewing the decision. We couldn't be in better hands.

 

The holidays have convinced me even more how much better things could be for L. She's been a lot calmer and happier in general. She's still had a few episodes where things haven't gone according to plan or she's been a bit anxious and not wanted to go out but nothing like when she comes home from school. It makes me all the more determined to get her the support she so desperately needs.

 

Thanks to everyone for all their support and kind words. <'> <'>

 

Lisa