Sheer cheek!

[mossgrove]

The LEA Autism support worker visited our son's primary school to check on progress. She came out of a meeting with the headmistress saying it was very positive and said 'She showed me a wonderful Visual Timetable that they have done, it really is excellent' Then went on to say that they will not insist that our son sits his SATS tests as it might be too stressful for him, so it was good that the school was being so understanding.

 

Sounds quite good doesn't it?

 

Scratch beneath the surface and we find

 

The Visual timetable was produced two months ago by his CAMHS support worker who sent it to the school and asked them to contact her so she could explain how to use it.The school do not understand it, have never a asked how to use it, have never mentioned it to us or our son, and as far as we know never used it in any way shape or form nor have they any intention of doing so.

 

The school should have applied for permission to allow more time , breaks etc, during the SATS,. The deadline was 6 weeks ago. They did nothing and are trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

 

I couldn't make this stuff up! Why are these schools never called to account?

 

Simon

Edited April 6, 2005 by mossgrove

[Minxygal]

Drives me mad, I've seen them do similar for OFSTED too.

 

I once saw an IEP that had a lovely worded paragraph that was supposedly my input to the paper. I'd never even seen the damn thing before.

[Carol]

Oh that is disgraceful - shame on them - isn't it wonderful when they pat themselves on the back like that when they have done worse than nought :(

 

I always remember my last years primary school parents evening when after 6 years out of the 7 being spent desk diving , being extremely stressed or sitting outside the headteachers door & them finally letting my son into the special class in primary 7 they took all credit for the advancement of his education & said that they had done a good job with his education - talk about flabergasted!!!

 

sorry not trying to hijack your thread - it just brought it back when I read your post - it really amazes me that schools get away with this sort of stuff so often :(

 

no wonder you are

 

Carol

[lorryw]

Hi Simon

Im afraid that kind of thing happens all the time. Unless you have a school who are really on the ball and know what they are doing it will happen.

I strongly recommend that paremts become involved with their childs school, even if its only to listen to readers for half an hour. It just helps to keep school on its toes if you become a regular in the staff room. In an ideal world it shouldnt be needed but in my experience it makes a big difference

Loraine

[annie]

You know how I feel about schools at the moment Simon, nothing surprises me anymore

 

Why do schools keep on lying about their ability to support our children?

Why don't schools listen to advice by professionals and parents?

 

Surely if they listened in the first place they wouldn't need to lie

 

There are not enough 'experts' in the ASD field as it is, let alone people who think they're experts but continue to make our children's lives hell.

 

Annie

<'>

[oracle]

Simon this really makes me angry becasue schools know just what to say and what to produce at the right time, even when they are doing diddly squat to make things work. It's so wrong and someone should be stopping this from happening. Our ASD outreach team contact me time and time again, to say that schools they vist are showing them all of this wonderful stuff they SAY they are doing with our children. The moment they leave it is all put away never to be seen again.

 

Have you made the support worker aware of the 'facts' here? I certainly would because in my book this is deception and it stinks.

 

Carole

Edited April 6, 2005 by carole

[Kathryn]

Simon that's unbelievable! I feel angry just reading it so I can only imagine how you feel.

 

You're right, there's so little accountability in the system , even when you compare it to something like say, the health service. As usual, the schools get away with it and the parents are left picking up the pieces.

[jan]

Hi Simon,

 

Just wanted to let you know that we know how you feel. Our eldest is also due to take sats this year and what a can of worms it is turning out to be. At this rate I shall keep him away from school that week and he won't take them at all!

 

Schools, (or in our case, heads), seem to know how to say all the right things and make it look as if they do all the right things when they need to. If they get it so right, why do our children struggle so much in that enviroment.

 

Get on to someone senior in the SEN dept at the LEA and kick up a fuss. It may not help, but we need to do all we can to make them aware of what is happening to our children!

 

take care <'>

 

jan

[Helen]

Simon,

 

I know that you will put the LEA's Autism support worker straight on a few facts... it just annoys me that the school has managed to easily dupe someone who is supposed to act as your son's advocate

[helenl53]

Hi Simon,

 

You know that this is something I feel very strongly about.

 

I think you will find the answer lies at the bottom of a crock of gold.

 

There is funding that goes with every child into their school which is called the Pupil Weighted Average. If you have falling numbers then this Pupil Weighted Average is reduced - you need to keep the numbers up - falling rolls mean a cut in your funding. The funding for schools is also affected by SATs results so it is in the best interests of the school to have decent Sats results or the funding goes down.

 

 

In addition to this, the LEA will fund each child on Schools Action or Action + by a specific amount for each child but this money does not have to be spent on your child. It goes into a crock of gold and the type of SENspend is at the discretion of the school management - SEN covers a number of things such as anti-social behaviour, truanting etc. On Action+, you may have a professional who will suggest using , say a visual timetable. There is no obligation for the school to act upon the suggestion, because that is all that it is - a suggestion - nothing more. If they school staff were not sure how to utilise visual timetables, then they would have to buy in some training and that would mean dipping in to the crock of gold!

 

This is why I am so adamant that our children need to have some kind of security of service - such as a statement. There are "Good Practice Guides", Code of Practices etc and schools must have regard to them, but as far as I am aware, there is no legal obligation to provide the support without a statement.

 

I wish you hadn't got me wound up again!!

 

HelenL

[nellie]

Simon,

 

I'm sorry <'> I can understand your anger and by the responses to your post, I'm not the only one!!!

 

The answer?? I wish I knew.

 

Nellie xx

[Kathryn]

If they school staff were not sure how to utilise visual timetables, then they would have to buy in some training and that would mean dipping in to the crock of gold!

 

I thought that's where the specialist advisory service came in?? I was told these services were free to schools - is this wrong?

[helenl53]

Hi Kathryn

 

It has been explained to me that, for instance, the Ed Psych is allocated to school A for three hours on a Monday every week. School A decides what children will be seen by the Ed Psych - they do not pay for this - it is not free as such , but is designated time funded directly by the LEA (bit like a prepaid service for the school). I have been told that these sessions are not for training purposes - they are purely for observation and recommendation purposes.

 

An Ed Psych came to our support group and gave a wonderful presentation on fabbo strategies - I asked the question - how come our schools are not using these fabbo strategies - answer - they have to come to the training sessions organised by the LEA to learn how to implement them. I questioned further - are these sessions compulsory for the schools and part of the conditions for accepting general SEN funding? - there was a lot of throat clearing and shuffling and I discovered that it is down to the individual school management to decide whether they will dip into the SEN budget to take up the training!!!

 

There is your answer Kathryn- not surprising our kids are being failed it it!

 

Best Wishes

 

HelenL

[Kathryn]

Hi Helen,

 

Thanks for your answer. That's really interesting - the things that go on behind the scenes. Reminds me that we got moaned at by the senco earlier this year for phoning the ed. psych department directly and inviting the EP round to our house to assess L. would you believe with all her problems, she had never before seen by an EP??

 

He said it would come out of the school's visit allocation - but didn't try to block it as he was on our side anyway.

 

so what's the answer - remove all delegated funding from schools?

 

k

[helenl53]

Hi Kathryn,

 

The arguement that was put forward for delegated funding and reduction of Statementing was that schools could be more effective in the provision as they could share good quality resources between the children etc etc etc and whatever excuse you can think of. I think this would be great if the schools were honest in applying the funding or if there was more accountability. At the moment, they just have to account for "SEN spend" but not in any great detail and there is no requirement to link this spend to "results". For those schools that are underhand, this is a treasure chest!

 

It is another one of those cr*p ideas (like inclusion) that was not thought out properly and there was no consideration given to the possibility that the funds could be "flexibly" applied.

 

Yes, I would centralise it until it could become a fully workable system and then I would not put the money directly into the schools and give them the responsibility - I would have a team of ASD Specific specialists who would ensure that there was training, support and resources to fully include our kids.

 

Pipe dreams - but we have a very flawed system and it is not doing our kids any favours.

 

We are all kept in the dark about these things.

 

Best Wishes

 

HelenL

[puffin]

I think SEN funding should be ring-fenced and schools not allowed to let it disappear into the crock of gold (and spent on other things) while the head teacher fobs parents off with a sob story about the school being broke.

[Kathryn]

And it seems to me that SEN funding should not have to cover other behavioural difficulties, truanting etc. the limits need to be clearly defined.

[lisa]

One of the problems as it stands with many training sessions is that although they are quite often free to attend the school has to pay for temp staff to cover teachers attending courses out of their budget.

 

Our school's entire delegated SEN budget is spent on a general classroom assistant in each class every morning in reception to year 4. Their reasoning is that SEN kids tend to be in bottom groups and these LSA's help the bottom group. In reality they're doing general photocopying or hanging wall displays. It also leaves no provision for our children who are often of above average intelligence. Presumably our school doesn't have any SEN children in years 5 and 6!!!! It also begs the question of what's happened to the money the school used to spent on classroom assistants before the LEA's started delegating the resources to schools.

 

Simon, I'd like to say your story surprises me but unfortunately it doesn't. We've had a very similar situation concerning visual timetables which our two kids don't have, but the school tell professionals that "all our ASD children have visual timetables" and a lot of other cr*p which is all just lip service and never actually happens. The LEA also told the tribunal that they have a specific service that would be able to help us with Laura's emotional and behaviour problems, they told how they'd made a referral and what wonderful help we'd receive. This was 4 weeks ago, I received a letter today telling me that unfortunately this service has now closed. They must have known that it was closing at the time of the tribunal .

 

Lisa

[Kazzen161]

R's school asked for Autism Outreach to help - they were told that they could not because he does not have a statement. She queried this, and they were going to check. I rang the LEA direct, adn was told that you can get Outreach if the child has a statement, and if he does not you can ask but you have to send in written evidence of the child's "severe communication needs". I told the school this, and they are going to try again (though THEY still had not heard back from the LEA). I somehow think the answer will be no - though the man in charge of co-ordinating the Outreach knows me well, so he may think it wise to give it to R (he knows I am trouble).

 

I know that Outreach will not say anything new to what I have been telling the school, but I am just a parent!

 

Karen

[oracle]

Hi Karen,

 

This is really dreadful. When we are seeing such a decrease in the number of Statments, and being told how School Action and Action Plus can address ALL of our childrens needs, they should be able to access the Autism Outreach Team. I think I would go to the press about this. It is criminal because who are decided what our children's needs are any way?

 

Reading the posts here has made me realise that the one thing that 'we' need most is probably a system whereby school are accountable to someone regarding SEN. At the moment it appers that they can do whatever they like

 

Carole

[mossgrove]

Carol

 

I am not sure if it's the same in all areas, but in our area the outreach workers are only involved at the invitation of the school. Which means that if the school don't like what the outreach worker has to say about their provision thay have the option of not inviting them again. Some schools refuse to allow the Autism outreach workers on the premises!

 

Simon

[invent 10 things b4 breakfast]

Hi Simon,

 

It's outragous what the schools are able to get away with, our SENCo normally does it because she is so enthuriastic in front of the professionals and then looks through you or ignores you when you try and speak with her - FALSE!

 

When S was at pre-school age about 4 I was asked not to bring him into on a certain day because they were being OFSTED Inspected Well of course I did take him in and the first thing he did was climb up onto a piece of play equipment and push another child off the top But how dare they!

 

You go for it!

[oracle]

Hi Simon,

 

Well it's certainly the same in our area. Schools can quite happily sit there failing a child and not have to have any external help - unless they ask for it. The only concession I have gained so far is that the Autism Outreach Team now introduce themselves to any school who has a child with ASD. They make them aware that they are available for help and advice. But the school do not have to ask for any help or advice and many are waiting until the child is failing badly and usually past the point of no return.

 

I am quite frankly shocked that is some areas your child has to have a statement before the outreach team become involved - but then again that's inclusion isn't it. Add them to your role first and then totally ignore their needs!

 

Carole

[Kathryn]

This is exactly what happened to us in June, Carole. When I asked about the Autism outreach team the Senco reacted as if I had slapped her and said "we only call them in if we can't cope."

 

They didn't cope and the rest is history. By the time the outreach team got involved, (and the paperwork to arrange a visit is unbelievable), my daughter was no longer there.

 

And of course "lack of involvement of specialist services " was one of the main reasons we were refused an assessment.

[admum]

Its shocking isnt it that schools can behave like this. We had a terrible time with our sons previous school which ended up with an lEa investigation which didnt even do its job properly as the appointed independent person did a report and weve not been allowed to see it. Our son had access to an outreach worker at first but only because I called and the school were shamed into it as it had been recommended by his treating doctors. It then disappeared as the child who she was also visiting left the school and we were told that without a statement he couldnt have it ( despite being on SA+) so for his ladst year no support. This was the year when he was attacked by a parent in school and nothing done! When he tried to climb out of the car to avoid going to school! When he got violent headaches (stress)! But it was all in our heads - we are in the leas/schools view just overprotective parents ! And to boot when we got a statement the HT told me that I had caused her sencos breakdown! And I was not allowed to speak to any staff except her! All because I had dared to question why there was no home school book, why there was no help in the playground when they were aware of this and it had been recommended. Why no lsas had ASD training. THey had lied about provision and then tried to cover up but eventually had to admit that hadnt got the provisionin the IEP due to a misunderstanding! THis is a school whose ofsted report glows about SEN provision and that was why we sent our son there. I think their whole attitude was summed up when HT gave evidence against us at tribunal that we had taken our child to OT every week for a year but had done that privately as we were again exaggerating his difficulties - when it was NHS treatement all along and only stopped as we had so many other appts and won tribunal and so got help in new school. Anyone know if my son is entitled to outreach support in new school as its private and not in same borough?

[mossgrove]

Admum

 

You are not alone in being treated like this. We too ahve been accused of causing staff stress by asking where the agreed provision is, and were told we were not being reasonable in expecting what was written into his statement.

 

I think they genuinelty expect us to be so overwhelmingly grateful for what they are doing that we should stop being bothered at all about what they are not doing.

 

Our son goes to panel on the 16th and hopefully will be placed elsewhere.

 

Simon

Edited April 7, 2005 by mossgrove

[admum]

Good luck. Sorry if over the top. A year later I still fume and wonder what I did so wrong. Hope you win

[Kazzen161]

>>And of course "lack of involvement of specialist services " was one of the main reasons we were refused an assessment

 

This is what was in my mind - if we ask for a statement - surely they will say "have you asked for advice from Outreach?" - so I want it in writing that we have asked.

 

I was a bit wary of asking before I knew what Outreach was like, so was pleased to support my friend in her visit to that school - everything they said they did for their Unit pupils was what I have been saying R needs. Worryingly, the "non-unit" AS pupils didn't seem to have access to the same level of support - benefitting merely from Teachers being more aware of AS.

 

The lady said any school with a spare room could do what they do - which is what I sort of expected from R's school, as they have a Unit (mainly for dyslexics though).

 

 

Karen