A-S warrior Report post Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) this is going to be like an online dairy, because what i want to say isnt going to be i one post im affraid. ok first of all aspergers syndrome should be renamed as "the gift". it should not be labeled as a disability because regardless of what your doctor says or what any wanabe autistic specialist thinks it is in fact an ability and a huge one at that! i know of no other condition that delivers you, supreme intelligence, photographic memory, the ability to learn and devolop everyday, take your hobbies and turn them into a lifestyle and be more dedicated than anyother person in your chosen feild and to have the methodical brain power to become the best at it, bascicly in short aspergers=genius! the only flaw is our social problems but the thing is if you change your thought pattern and act in caracter temporaraly, there is no reason on this earth why you cant enjoy a big social life too. have 2 pepole the normal you when your at home and with family and then an alter ego (second personality) when your at work, out with friends and so on. its that easy! so with all that said try and tell me that aspergers is a disability now! im 100% confident that i can reply and silence you lol. in this diary i hope to talk to negative asperger sufferers and convert them into positve, optimistic apprentice A-S warriors! if your ready for change (yes i know you dont like change but trust me!) then post and follow my mission diary. i wont stop until every asperger "sufferer" has seen the light and starts using there aspergers as a tool to acheive greatness that only the average person can only dream of! Edited March 14, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I'm going to post a quote out of my book of how I view asd Autism is a developmental disability which affects how we think and communicate in our every day lives. I actually like to think that ASD’s is a special gift that we have because we may have difficulty in some areas but may be good in other areas. Like I have knowledge about dolphins, and able to teach it to others; that people didn’t know about. Okay so some people don’t see it as a gift if they are severe but I just want to point out that either one way or another severe or not we all are individuals it affects us many different ways but we are all good at something in our lives. Has anyone ever been told that they will never communicate or speak but later on in lives they are able to communicate using different ways and have broken the barriers? With the help and the right intervention it will work, don’t let anyone put your down because of it. Edited March 14, 2012 by Special_talent123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 14, 2012 I do not want to douse your fire A-S warrior, but As is a condition, that is a developmental condition which affects how our brain works. I feel it is really important that all people understand this. What AS is not is it is not your personality, nor is it you intelligence level. What I would say on this last point is that having areas of our brain which are possibly not conected up in a neurotypical way does lead to some individuals subconciously in early life and conciously later compensating for this fact and developing other aspects of their brain to high levels. The manifestation of this is a wide descrepancy in skill and ability levels depending upon which area of the brain they are associated with. As individuals with AS I firmly believe we are all different. Meeting and getting to know other adults with the condition in group sessions has reinforced this belief. I think it is important that we understand there are a number of components which contribute in defining the person we are and what we may become, environmental factors would also come into this. An issue in our society is a level of insularity where people think everyone must be like themselves. This is the main factor is NT's finding great difficulty in understanding what it is like to be on the autistic spectrum. I think we need to be very careful not to bring this fault into our own autistic community. Personally I think I am fairly intelligent, but I understand intelligence comes in many forms and I am aware my intelligence is not at a uniform level across all sectors. I have always resisted attempts by professionals to have my intelligence measured, I am not comfortable with the idea of being 'super intelligent' as they suggest, I simply don't want another badge, I want to be seen as being me. At a personality level I am a very beligerant character, a real loner, a bit of an anarchist. I am pretty independant and was brought up in a working class industrial town in decline through a period of mass unemployment, minners strike and national riots, this mixture of personality, independence and environment between the ages of 15 to 18 had a big impact on me and helped to mould my outlook on life. I have also through experience worked in a very challenging career for anyone with AS teaching. This provided a learning environment to develop my social and communication skills with a very understanding and honest audience who were more than happy to give feedback at times. It could have been the case that my intelligence level when born could have been a lot lower, nothing wrong in that, and that I was given a sesitive and thoughtful type personality and had a profile which is opposite to my own being a good team player and finding comfort in other people. my environment might have been a quiet rural village where everyone knew me and where I fitted in. In fact my life I suspect could have been very different, not better or worse just different. As a condition AS affects me in a way related to these things, if I had been this second character it would have affected me differently and I suspect I would see it differently. On balance given the choice to have AS or not like you I would choose to have the condition. Like you, though it comes with issues, I believe the way I have developed and matured as an individual I am able to use the good aspects of the condition to my advantage and as such see it as a companion in my life. This is not the case for everybody who has AS and I understand why. I have read a few of your posts A-S warrior and I find them refreshing, but in many respects I have to disagree with some of your sentiments, that is after all the nature of a forum. In many ways we are on a mission to change a lot of perceptions and improve understanding around ASD conditions, and many would see this as a battle. There are however many ways to win a war. If everyone was like me a good strategy would be to simply front up and charge headlong into the enemy ranks, I suspect you feel the same way, I might even have the maturity to step back for a minute and look for a weak point. The problem is that strategy will not work too well. A quick estimation of how many people might have an AS diagnosis in the country and a scan around the forum boards would highlight that number for a suicide mission are weak. In my experience that whilst I am very positive about my AS condition the majority I met at university, a positive environment which requires a level of sucess to gain access, were not positive rather they wished they did not have the condition. A quick look around the forum you will a number of idividuals with the condition who at time struggle greatly with their daily lives and are simply looking for 'survival' strategies. Whilst I try my best to help in a very 'pragmatic' way as is my nature, I am highly impressed by and am often left feeling emotionaly inadequate by some of the wonderful souls who inhabit these forum boards. If we are to fight the battle in the long run we have to understand and respect each others abilites. A-S Warrior I suspect you see yourself as a broad sword weilding champion. For my part I consider myself a bit of an archer who would try to take out key targets from range. Within our ranks there are those who can summon a bit of magic in various forms and then there are the very important healers. Every army has its entourage and we must understand our responsibility to look after them as well and that will take up some of our time. As I said at the start I do not want to douse your fire, it takes all types to make this an interesting world to live upon, and the interesting forum it is, but respect we did not come out of the same mould and stereotypes are most dangerous when they emerge from within the own ranks of a community which is often a victim of external stereotyping. A last point is we can not go around and should not expect to change people, that right is reserved for themselves, and for some there may be limited potential for change as a result of factors outside of their control, the most significant one being personality. At the end of the day we have to I believe find comfort in the person we are, we should ask no more nor expect anything less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lynden Report post Posted March 14, 2012 I'm glad you feel so positively about your AS - but whilst it may be a gift for you, it can be very disabling for some people and I'm not sure they would agree with you that it is a gift. Not everyone with AS has supreme intelligence, nor a photographic memory. These are skills that you have, as an individual and it's great for you that you have been able to cultivate your skills but it's important that you appreciate that all people with autism are individuals and as such will feel differently as to how their autism affects them. Lynne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amberzak Report post Posted March 14, 2012 I feel at times like it is a gift. I remind myself that I probably wouldn't be married to my wonderful man, or have such close friends as i have (I am really good friends with my old head teacher from when I was a kid) and I wouldn't be training to be a maths teacher. But then there are other times, usually when it comes to the social side of things, where I hate my aspergers. I am having one of those days today. I do hope that your positive outlook does continue and I hope to pick up on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted March 14, 2012 in this diary i hope to talk to negative asperger sufferers and convert them into positve, optimistic apprentice A-S warriors! if your ready for change (yes i know you dont like change but trust me!) then post and follow my mission diary. i wont stop until every asperger "sufferer" has seen the light and starts using there aspergers as a tool to acheive greatness that only the average person can only dream of! Hmmm a gift? I'm not so sure about that - I struggle to see it that way because I've only been diagnosed a little over a year and didn't have whatever it is about knowing about AS until then (by that I mean there are some areas in my life where knowing about AS has helped me to understand things or its sort of explained certain things) unlike the previous 20 odd years of what felt like torture for no reason whatsoever - if that makes sense? If we are to fight the battle in the long run we have to understand and respect each others abilites. A-S Warrior I suspect you see yourself as a broad sword weilding champion. For my part I consider myself a bit of an archer who would try to take out key targets from range. Within our ranks there are those who can summon a bit of magic in various forms and then there are the very important healers. Every army has its entourage and we must understand our responsibility to look after them as well and that will take up some of our time. As I said at the start I do not want to douse your fire, it takes all types to make this an interesting world to live upon, and the interesting forum it is, but respect we did not come out of the same mould and stereotypes are most dangerous when they emerge from within the own ranks of a community which is often a victim of external stereotyping. A last point is we can not go around and should not expect to change people, that right is reserved for themselves, and for some there may be limited potential for change as a result of factors outside of their control, the most significant one being personality. At the end of the day we have to I believe find comfort in the person we are, we should ask no more nor expect anything less. Cool, we're doing battles and armies now... I'd be a magical hermit I think part of the danger of a dx of something is that for some people it can become something they use as an excuse in a negative way - and not just AS but other things too - by having diagnostic manuals for things, those things become more real to lay people, and they become a part of collective knowledge, so people may start to think that because something is written in black and white that means it can't be changed in any way - this can give certain professionals more power than they necessarily should have too as people trust them to help. Take depression for example - not so long ago people were declared insane or hysterical and locked up or zapped - now its seen as a biological disorder by a fair amount of people, and as such they treat is as a biological thing by dosing people full of pills without looking at the psychological or social influences, and without taking account of people's experiences. By simplifying it to biology they reduce the condition to a set of facts that do not necessarily aid understanding or provide a framework by which to treat it (of course there are psychologists and such but try getting hold of one if your broke and there's nobody available where you live because the government cuts money in these sectors left, right and centre) and as such the biology route becomes simpler and more cost effective and feeds into people's ideas about "scientific fact" as they trust professionals to make things better. I think this all feeds into an attitude where people may all too easily believe they can't do things because of a label - and the label "developmental disorder" doesn't really sound positive and fulfilling does it? Even though there's people out there who have turned it into a positive and have found ways of learning and improving their quality of life. Like the news, LancsLad included a post about autism and the news, and I read about a young boy being tied up by his teacher recently - they don't always portray autism favourably and most of the articles about seem to be about research, or events in the news to do with some level of criminal behaviour or police/trials and not about achievements of autistic people and why people should try to understand that some of us (people) just want to be able to function in the world without being judged or discriminated against. So if anyone wants a challenge, I throw down the gauntlet at anyone making me see this as a fully positive thing - or even as a mostly positive thing in my life. I appreciate some people think and feel it is, and I appreciate that there's some out there who are a damn sight more negative than me. I'm not being purely negative about this folks - but... I really don't see that the positives outweigh some of the hell that has been my life in the social arena, and the confusion, the feeling weird, wrong, different, outcast, the feeling like a piece of turd on people's shoes because of they way they treated me for years, and the sitting on my own, being lonely and hurt that I just couldn't figure out what it was that made me different, that made me not understand the rules of the social game. All the trying I did and failing over and over and over. Sure, I've become good at some things; like observing things - but would I want that skill as a result of pain and heart break? Not really, I'd give it up in a heartbeat if I could only fit in, and feel like a member of the species that I am, and because life's been mentally and psychologically hard - I'd give up AS if only I could just not feel the way I do, or the ways I have felt, because I'd just like the social things in life to be easier, to not require total concentration, planning, effort, so I wouldn't have built an extensive database in my head of how to behave/talk/be, so I wouldn't have to remember not to move in a different way, or keep my hands still, or have to talk in a forced way as I so often cannot be me, because if I am me, and totally me, truth is that 99% of the time it makes me different/weird/scary to people. I say the social world because if I was to stay in isolation - as I mostly do through agoraphobia - I become normal to my own standards - it is only other people that allow a social mirror through which I see myself as nothing, as no-one, as a failure, lacking, and it is the improved self-awareness through my life that has only made this worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 14, 2012 hi peeps, seems to be a very sceptical reaction as i expected. the thing is i was diagnosed at a very young age, i was 5 im 21 now, so for 16+ years ive walked in the knowledge knowing i have aspergers so ive had 16 years to find coping stratiges. for the first 14 years it was a huge disability to me and was a burden. now i know for a fact alot of you guys posting on here have only knowingly lived with it for less than 5 years and dont yet realise the true potential it offers. and at the 5 year point for me i was in a terrible state, had little to no friends, picked on and alienated, to make it worse felt like a stranger in my own home. ive journeyed through to the point im at today and no for a fact that the only barriers as an asperger sufferer is the ones we make in our minds. there is nothing you cant do that ordenary pepole cant do. in fact better. it took me nearly 16 years to have this mindset. and my mission is to give you guys a short cut. so you dont have to battle with aspergers like i did. once you get to a level where you feel like its a gift which it is! you then realise the true power aspergers brings us. now yes we all have our downfulls but just because something is hard for us doesnt mean we should be wrapped up in cotton wool, we just have to work much harder than most pepole, witch in the long run is very rewarding, as it makes us better pepole. my goal is to help, i joined this forum to help pepole, negative pepole! which is a side effect of aspergers. aspergers is a disability if you let it become one. i genuinly want to help you guys have the best lives possible, the lives you deserve. if your willing to embrace the idea that aspergers is a gift then your already half way there. its up to you if you want to settle to be that quiet guy that sits in the corner of a room, living a humdrum routine life that makes you feel safe (but unfulfilled) thats up to you. but you know deep down your a hell of alot more than that, A HELL OF ALOT MORE. im just trying to make you realise that. @ lancslad with your artery skills and my ruthless determination i think we would make a formidable team, as they say 2 minds are better than 1 if you wana co pilot this thread with me im all for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 I feel at times like it is a gift. I remind myself that I probably wouldn't be married to my wonderful man, or have such close friends as i have (I am really good friends with my old head teacher from when I was a kid) and I wouldn't be training to be a maths teacher. But then there are other times, usually when it comes to the social side of things, where I hate my aspergers. I am having one of those days today. I do hope that your positive outlook does continue and I hope to pick up on it. your profile picture makes me happy lol, i hope you pick up on it to because breaking down the walls that aspergers can bring is a very liberating feeling and you have the sence that anything is possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 Hmmm a gift? I'm not so sure about that - I struggle to see it that way because I've only been diagnosed a little over a year and didn't have whatever it is about knowing about AS until then (by that I mean there are some areas in my life where knowing about AS has helped me to understand things or its sort of explained certain things) unlike the previous 20 odd years of what felt like torture for no reason whatsoever - if that makes sense? all in good time my friend, you will see what im talking about one day. ive known about my aspergers for 16 years, so thats 3 quarters of my life! some consider me an expert, ive helped alot of pepole with aspergers over the years. i dont call myself an expert though, i like to remain humble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I'm glad you feel so positively about your AS - but whilst it may be a gift for you, it can be very disabling for some people and I'm not sure they would agree with you that it is a gift. Not everyone with AS has supreme intelligence, nor a photographic memory. These are skills that you have, as an individual and it's great for you that you have been able to cultivate your skills but it's important that you appreciate that all people with autism are individuals and as such will feel differently as to how their autism affects them. Lynne do a google search of al the celebritys that have aspergers. you,ll see that im not an exeption and that the most famous succesful pepole, albert einstein, michael jackson, patrick moore, bill gates, al gore, robin williams, jim henson, george washington, heather kuzmich, vincent van gough, bob dylan all have aspergers. Edited March 15, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amberzak Report post Posted March 15, 2012 As warriors, where are you from? I have always wanted to make a documentary and write a book on what it's actually like to live with aspergers. A lot of these books teachers have to read aren't even written by those who live with it. I think we could write quite well together. With your optimism, and my frustrations, we could get both views across. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris54 Report post Posted March 15, 2012 do a google search of al the celebritys that have aspergers. you,ll see that im not an exeption and that the most famous succesful pepole, albert einstein, michael jackson, patrick moore, bill gates, al gore, robin williams, jim henson, george washington, heather kuzmich, vincent van gough, bob dylan all have aspergers. This is very true but what we must not forget is the many, many thousands of unknown, unsuccessful people that have Aspergers. Also Aspergers/ High Functioning Autism is just the tip of the iceberg. Me must also remember the rest of the Autistic community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 15, 2012 Darkshine I am definately not taking up the gauntlet, without doubt AS affects people in very different ways and you have my empathy. Since my diagnosis a few years ago and through a reasonable amount of research my conclusion is that AS as a package may suit different personality groups in different ways. Throughout my working life I underwent a number of personality type tests which were quite trendy at the time Myers-Briggs type stuff. When I was admited into a secure psychiatric unit I was again tested in a number of ways by a consultant looking for problems in my personality, this led to a diagnosis of a 'personality disorder'. I do not agree with personality disorders as a general principle as it implies a norm type personality and anything which is very different could be considered a disorder by its very nature, no one is for example slapping labels on very friendly outward going individuals are they even when their behaviour might be inappropriate at times. The last time I was tested in this way was at university a few years ago by a module tutor who did a general session with the group, and I said "I know what this will show" he asked me why and explained that he had worked as a professional in this area for a few years working with big corporations, and when we all did the short test because I came out by far as an extreme personality type he asked me could he do some more specialised tests with me which I agreed to. Whilst there is a lot of this stuff you could do online I have been through the more stringent test protocols a few times which cost companies a few hundred quid to run and the results regardless of the test all come out with the same conclusions. That conclusion was never you have AS. For interest and to develop my point I am for example under Myers-Briggs an INTJ (introversion, intuition,thinking, judgement) personality type which makes up about 2% of the UK population. Within that specific group and there are 16 in total I am again on the outside range of things. In these last tests the individual did a lot of work on sheep, beaver, wolf, tiger types and though he had worked with thousands of individuals in industry and commerce I was only the second out and out tiger type he had come across in that time. He was really excited about this, I wasn't, just one of those things people saying I was different, I knew that! Since my diagnosis I have spent a lot of time thinking how much AS defines me as a person, and is it inevitable that my personality would be in these sectors as a result? What threw a spanner in the works was meeting other people with AS at university in a group and realising that our personalities are very different. My belief is if I could take AS out of the equation and went through these tests again I suspect there would be a very similar result, in other words I feel no conflicts in the questioning it all comes very naturally and matter of fact. I suspect that there are others with AS who would see the nature of some personality questions as a bit conflicting, deep down they might feel there is something inside of them that feels one way, yet the effects of AS in their lives leads to them believing that the consistent answers from thier lives might indicate something else. This is pure speculation but there are sample tests online to give it a go, but be warned they will say something when you hit the button at the end! I believe that AS comes with a lot of bad points and a few good points, and as I said previously natural intelligence levels may play a big role in this, you might have the personality traits to be a research scientist but be unable to grasp the concepts at the required level, this is not to put anyone down at all just highlighting a point. I also think environment plays a big role, I myself walked a very fine line in my formative years and like so many of my peers could have become stuck in an area of high unemployment, and as a suferer of clinical depression and a heavy drinker at the time who knows where this may have led. I do feel the most important thing is personality and its relationship with the condition. When it comes to the bad points about AS a lot of the time they are generally now not a big issue for me. I am a real loner, this forum is as far as social interaction goes for me, and that might stop sudenly as soon as I get over a current injury and can train again. As a loner I am happy being in isolation, my dream environment being a sailing yacht on my own out on an ocean, as a result I can minimise environmental stress.I also find it very easy to focus on my thinking and have been blessed with creative design skills where the opportunities to fill my time are endless. As a result I am very settled individual, my other interest triathlon involves a lot of training in isolation, I have a good understanding of sports science, was nearly an alternative career path and one I have become qualified at a lesser level in various areas as such I do not need a coach. Importantly I am no longer in a position where I have to go out and work I can fall back on a pension. When I had to work because of my personality type and opportunities I firstly worked in niche areas building a reputation of being at the head of my field. This led to an early move into a leadership role and I was again very fortunate to have three very good manager type individuals where I could drive on leading by example and hard work and there was a very competent level around me. I do not think everyone can be as lucky as me, whilst I have had some very bad times and can relate to what Darkshine says they are more or lessed balanced out. Now that I have choice in my life I can build it around the better traits that come with AS and that help imensely, not everyone is so fortunate. When I was younger and I can see this in A-S warrior though he might not appreciate me saying it, sorry, I was very arrogant and highly motivated, guess I still am, just toned it down a bit. I left home and kind of cut my ties by moving away, and it felt like make or break, going home with my tail between my legs was not an option. As a result I simply stuck to my personality type put the blinkers on and drove forwards breaking through brick wall after brick wall, I still have the emotional scars to prove it. Not everybody is like that, they might not have the energy, the drive or a massive fear of failure to motivate themselves. The other fact is you can not go on like that for ever. I was very fortunate to find a safe haven in a department of great individuals with a great manager, I can remeber him telling me after a couple of months to stop fighting I had nothing to prove, which gave me the time for a year or so to recharge my batteries before I went off again and set up my first company alongside the teaching job. I do think if anything had been slightly different how would things have been, and I can only say I don't know. What I do feel is that without my background personality I may have found my autistic traits to be less empowering and more destructive. In some ways I am glad that I didn't have a diagnosis as I had nothing to fall back on. For sure I felt very different to the people around me and often I would get seriously depressed and suicidal. When I bottled out on attempts on my own life I kind of said to myself I was lucky to have the amount of talent other people saw in me and it would be selfish to waste it and pleasing others was often my motivation to carry on living. I am glad to say as I have matured I can see I did do those things and when I am depressed and my self-esteem is low I can say look what you have done in your life you can't be all bad and this slowly picks me up. If my personality had been anything like my parents or my brothers my outlook on life would be very different and coupled with AS I might not have achieved half of what I have been able, after all we can only work with what we are given. Another question I have pondered at length is what if I had recieved a diagnosis earlier in my life. A lot of my twenties was all about proving I could do things when it felt so difficult to do so. As a result I can still be very destructive with myself physically and very much emotionaly. With age I have mellowed a lot. If I had have had an earlier diagnosis I might have cut myself a lot of slack in this period and have come to the conclusion to stop fighting so hard to prove things and to be more nurturing of myself. It might have been my personality would have driven me forwards in any case. I am not sure which way it would have gone. What I do know is that without my previous levels of sucess I would not have a pension now and as such my choices would be limited. Darkshine there are a lot of negative things and as a result times which have come with AS for me as well as anyone else out there. I have been able to squre them by saying it was a price I paid to be free today to have a lot of control in my life, for that I am fortunate. Would I go through it all again I am not too sure that is a really big ask, but I do not regret it. I find A-S warrior's outlook very interesting and I am in no position to comment other than say we all plough our own furrow in life, some are a bit more wobbly than others, but as long as they have depth and the seeds that we sow are good then we all have the potential to grow fulfilling lives for ourselves. Some of us might sow a field full of sunflowers to stand tall and to radiate in the afternoon sun, others might sow a field of onions their value being hidden underground. What we sow is I believe very much to do with our personalities. For some of us and I am lucky in this respect AS can make us more productive it acts as a fertilizer. This is not the case for everybody and having AS might well feel like trying to grow something on a cold, stony windswept piece of waste land. From my training as a landscape architect I know there are plant species which grow in almost every environment. I know that if you placed a few alpine species in a show garden they would go unnoticed. You need to look at things in context however, out on a rocky outcrop they are some of the most beautiful plant species on the planet. In a similar way I feel we need to understand ASD in the context of the individual and measure value in that respect. I suspect some individuals with AS have imense difficulty coping with their lives on a daily basis, and what I have had to and now go through might be insignificant in comparison. I find strength from that and respect their achievements as being significant. Chris highlights in the last post that the autistic community is made up of thousands and we shold not be too focused on the tip of the iceberg as offering a panecea for all. The reality is there are a lot of people who are below the waterline, I suspect a lot read these froum pages but never have the confidence to register and join in, thats fine by me. The thing with icebergs you need to respect what you can not see and recognise the importance of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 As warriors, where are you from? I have always wanted to make a documentary and write a book on what it's actually like to live with aspergers. A lot of these books teachers have to read aren't even written by those who live with it. I think we could write quite well together. With your optimism, and my frustrations, we could get both views across. im in the worthing area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 @lancslad regarding your sowing seeds analogy, why settle for just one? or the other? why not sow a whole rainforest of lushfruits and flowing water, with all sorts of new and extiting animals and fruits to try? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 15, 2012 A-S Warior I think the honest answer is we all have a limited amount of energy and time and we do not know what sort of weather is around the corner. Given my own personal experiences and using your flamboyant question as a basis I think the aim is to build a sustainable eco system. Eco systems do not really work as they do in the star trek films or as some sort of Genesis project, they take time. In a similar way I think over time we can build multi faceted lifestyle but we have to nurture it bit by bit. There have been times in my own life where I have felt like a super hero teaching, leading a department, helping in the design of a new school, coaching sport at a high level, having a house full of foster kids from very challenging backgrounds and trying to keep fit all at the same time. The problem was everyone around me apart from my partner felt I was some sort of super hero and kept pushing things in my direction without any of them ever seeing half of the big picture. In my life there was some bad weather around the corner when my head unfortunatly had to retire due to a heart attack on the golf course. Within a few short months the whole lot had unravelled and I had my first breakdown. Thinking I was almost invincible I came back as strong as I could and started a new job as planned but it was too soon, within six months I had been in a secure mental health unit had attempted suicide and had been sacked from my job. I think my life example highlights a few things. Firstly we are capable of a lot but we need to make sure that things are well established and in a healthy state before we turn out attention to new projects. Secondly we have a limitied capacity in our lives and that we are in danger of loosing an awful lot if we go too far to fast. To a large extent living with AS is a life of risk management strategies, some live on the edge at times others tend to play it safe. The last point is we need to build in capacity because we do not know what storms might be around the corner. As individuals with AS I think our capacities are very varied and we need to be realistic, thats not to say we should not be ambitious if we feel that way. I think at the end of the day there are different ways of finding value in our lives. Some of us might be enclined to design sustainable ecology parks (my area of interest), others might feel they want to create a window box. I think whatever we do we should do it at our ability level and do it well, if we can say we have done this then I feel we have produced something of value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted March 15, 2012 Darkshine I am definately not taking up the gauntlet, without doubt AS affects people in very different ways and you have my empathy. I don't blame you - because I sense that you sense that there isn't much point - besides, it wouldn't work as an argument or debate because my experiences are valid as my experiences, maybe further down the line I can resolve them somehow, as I have done already with some aspects of my life that aren't related to AS. (btw I was just throwing the gauntlet phrase out there - not just in your direction) I do not think everyone can be as lucky as me, whilst I have had some very bad times and can relate to what Darkshine says they are more or lessed balanced out. Now that I have choice in my life I can build it around the better traits that come with AS and that help imensely, not everyone is so fortunate. I'm hoping to get to a point where I can balance things out, using the balance analogy, it is taking me forever to balance the scales where they've been weighed down by negatives for so long, its slow work for me. I liked one of your replies to one of my posts about driving your car with your AS screaming in the back - well in my car my AS is struggling for the controls all the time! I do think if anything had been slightly different how would things have been, and I can only say I don't know. What I do feel is that without my background personality I may have found my autistic traits to be less empowering and more destructive. In some ways I am glad that I didn't have a diagnosis as I had nothing to fall back on. For sure I felt very different to the people around me and often I would get seriously depressed and suicidal. When I bottled out on attempts on my own life I kind of said to myself I was lucky to have the amount of talent other people saw in me and it would be selfish to waste it and pleasing others was often my motivation to carry on living. I am glad to say as I have matured I can see I did do those things and when I am depressed and my self-esteem is low I can say look what you have done in your life you can't be all bad and this slowly picks me up. If my personality had been anything like my parents or my brothers my outlook on life would be very different and coupled with AS I might not have achieved half of what I have been able, after all we can only work with what we are given. I'm not sure about all that personality trait stuff (on the measure you say you are INTJ) I think mine said architect/creator (there was overlap) but I fail to see how this fits in to AS and my life... I would rather my AS traits were useful and stuff rather than destructive though. Darkshine there are a lot of negative things and as a result times which have come with AS for me as well as anyone else out there. I have been able to sqaure them by saying it was a price I paid to be free today to have a lot of control in my life, for that I am fortunate. Would I go through it all again I am not too sure that is a really big ask, but I do not regret it. Maybe I'll see that for myself one day in my own life - I just can't see it now because it isn't the case for me. Regards Darkshine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 15, 2012 A-S Warior I think the honest answer is we all have a limited amount of energy and time and we do not know what sort of weather is around the corner. Given my own personal experiences and using your flamboyant question as a basis I think the aim is to build a sustainable eco system. Eco systems do not really work as they do in the star trek films or as some sort of Genesis project, they take time. In a similar way I think over time we can build multi faceted lifestyle but we have to nurture it bit by bit. There have been times in my own life where I have felt like a super hero teaching, leading a department, helping in the design of a new school, coaching sport at a high level, having a house full of foster kids from very challenging backgrounds and trying to keep fit all at the same time. The problem was everyone around me apart from my partner felt I was some sort of super hero and kept pushing things in my direction without any of them ever seeing half of the big picture. In my life there was some bad weather around the corner when my head unfortunatly had to retire due to a heart attack on the golf course. Within a few short months the whole lot had unravelled and I had my first breakdown. Thinking I was almost invincible I came back as strong as I could and started a new job as planned but it was too soon, within six months I had been in a secure mental health unit had attempted suicide and had been sacked from my job. I think my life example highlights a few things. Firstly we are capable of a lot but we need to make sure that things are well established and in a healthy state before we turn out attention to new projects. Secondly we have a limitied capacity in our lives and that we are in danger of loosing an awful lot if we go too far to fast. To a large extent living with AS is a life of risk management strategies, some live on the edge at times others tend to play it safe. The last point is we need to build in capacity because we do not know what storms might be around the corner. As individuals with AS I think our capacities are very varied and we need to be realistic, thats not to say we should not be ambitious if we feel that way. I think at the end of the day there are different ways of finding value in our lives. Some of us might be enclined to design sustainable ecology parks (my area of interest), others might feel they want to create a window box. I think whatever we do we should do it at our ability level and do it well, if we can say we have done this then I feel we have produced something of value. athelite to athelite i think you would agree we shouldnt accept limitations as an option. but i guess me being young and eager and very experienced at my age i can miss the fine print in some individuals. but! im fully confident i can help the majority of pepole that suffer a-s with my approach, maybe i need to be a tad more disaplined. i just need to talk to a few more pepole on here and get my bearings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tally Report post Posted March 16, 2012 A-S warrior, I think that your message is going to get lost in the way it's coming across. It feels like you're saying I am living my life wrong and should be as successful as Michael Jackson. Which I don't think is true. And it just turns me off listening to the rest of what you have to say. I don't have the remarkable abilities you say I should have, so it's difficult to know how I am supposed to achieve greatness like you think I should be doing. What remarkable feats have you achieved and how did your Asperger's help you do it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) A-S warrior, I think that your message is going to get lost in the way it's coming across. It feels like you're saying I am living my life wrong and should be as successful as Michael Jackson. Which I don't think is true. And it just turns me off listening to the rest of what you have to say. I don't have the remarkable abilities you say I should have, so it's difficult to know how I am supposed to achieve greatness like you think I should be doing. What remarkable feats have you achieved and how did your Asperger's help you do it? ok right erm ,all im trying to put forward the advantages that aspergers has and trying to help pepole become more positve and not try to see aspergers as a disability so much. what wrong with trying to motivate pepole? plus you probably DO have the remarkable feats i say, you probably dont realise it. my main goal is to help a-s suffers achieve a point of no limitations and help pepole to reach a level they thought they never could. ive been on forums before were pepole dont like my comments and have been over critical to the point it upsets me, i diddnt think i would get that here but you have proven me wrong. i try so hard to say the right thing and be a gentleman but theres always someone ready to debunk everything i say. at the end of the day i was on your side and backing you up. my achievements? diagnosed when i was 5, went through hell as a boy suffered ocd, panic attacks, epilepsy, severe depression and anger issues. ive put my mother through hell and back with my aspergers, have you read the topic help aggressive teen? i was worse than him. i was put in a isolated cubicle in classrooms so i couldnt distrupt the class, i was scared of crowds terrified in fact, diddnt talk properly since i was in my teens. and went to useless support workers that diddnt know what they were talking about, labled by teachers as naughty, dangerous, rude and just trying to get attention, and delberatley scrawls his hand writing to waste time. i was the same as a severly autistic person. assement after assement after assesment! i even rember at age 10 wanting to kill myself. my very worried mum was desperate to get me the help i needed and gues what? no one gave a damn! i was as negative as you can get, and from there i pulled myself up forced myself into uncomfatable situations, came out of my comfort zone, got a job at a night club to challange myself, ive had my heart broken when my relationship with my girlfriend painfully ended (she was indian and i am white) i lost her because of her family ties. but i forced myself to overcome all of these challanges over the last 21 years. when i realised my ability to come through all of this with a limp but a smile all the while is due to the metodical brain power and the ability to look at things in a very matter of fact way is due to me having aspergers, as soon as you embrace it and start to see it as a tool to help you achieve your potential and be optomistic in your approach is when you will then start to see what it is im talking about. aspergers if used in the right way is a gift! yes it isnt easy and it doesnt happen over night it happens when you employ a positive, forward thinking attitude! ive know about my aspergers for 16 years, now my goal is to give the help no one gave me, the insight into the coping stratiges ive employed over the years, rember ive had 16 years to find this positive view over aspergers, and i think its time to make pepole become less negative and more (alot more!) positive. and start to use that brilliant brain (that you dont yet realise you have!) for good, my examples of the celebritys were for inspriation, to show that the sky is the limit even for pepole with aspergers! there are no limitations at all! im here to help pepole catch on to this quicker than i did. for example if i was paralised from the waist down, does that mean i shouldnt at least try to walk? you never know i might suprise myself and walk again! or maybe i need the inspration of someone who was completley paralised that just ran a marition. positive thinking is the key! im tired of pepole on the autistic spectrum being ignored and disregarded, arnt you? Edited March 16, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tally Report post Posted March 16, 2012 I just think you're going to turn a lot of people off your message by pressuring them to attain greatness when a lot of us are having difficulty just getting by. It's not wrong to encourage and motivate people, and help them think more positively. I just think that the way you are going about it is a bit grandiose and is likely to have the opposite effect. I just thought, "I can't ever achieve any of this, so what's the point in trying?" I do not have photographic memory. I think I would have realised if I did. This is not low self-esteem speaking, you are just plain wrong about this. It sounds like you've overcome a lot to get where you are now. But it also sounds like you've managed this despite your Asperger's, rather than because of it. Getting a job in a bar, given your difficulties, is impressive. But if Asperger's gives us the special advantage you say it does, this is not a good example. I never thought I could cope with university, but now I have a place to start in September. I'm proud of that, even if you don't think it's enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 16, 2012 I just think you're going to turn a lot of people off your message by pressuring them to attain greatness when a lot of us are having difficulty just getting by. It's not wrong to encourage and motivate people, and help them think more positively. I just think that the way you are going about it is a bit grandiose and is likely to have the opposite effect. I just thought, "I can't ever achieve any of this, so what's the point in trying?" I do not have photographic memory. I think I would have realised if I did. This is not low self-esteem speaking, you are just plain wrong about this. It sounds like you've overcome a lot to get where you are now. But it also sounds like you've managed this despite your Asperger's, rather than because of it. Getting a job in a bar, given your difficulties, is impressive. But if Asperger's gives us the special advantage you say it does, this is not a good example. I never thought I could cope with university, but now I have a place to start in September. I'm proud of that, even if you don't think it's enough. alot of the pepole i have met with aspergers do have a tremendous memory, even photographic like i say. all i,ll say for now is this, whatever you do to prove to yourself that you can do something that you thought you couldnt is a huge challange to overcome! you couldnt cope with the thought of university but yet you still went through with the interview and then ended up getting a place in university, its an amazing achievment. its not the size of a challange to overcome that matters. its the fact you overcame a challange! and you should! be proud of that, and does it matter if i think its enough? if its enough to you thats all that matters. i personally think lots of small challanges taken one step at a time have big results, and to get a place at uni is to me a big challange to overcome alone! going through the interview proccess is a very intimidating experience for anybody. i never said that all the walls for an asperger sufferer are going to get broken down at once, it takes lots of time and patience and determination. even talking to the guy at the till at tesco is a huge huge step if you,ve never done it before. im not just going to go around spaming this forum with my slogans and statments, my goal is to talk to individuals and learn about aspergers and give as much help as i can. if i can change one persons life for the better then it was all worth it. im not trying to be mr popular on here, im just trying to help. you probably dont want to hear this, but i have a feeling that you are going to do very well at uni, small baby steps eventually equals big results. just like filling up a bucket of water with a pippette. takes a while but eventually that bucket gets filled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) this is almost a discimer, i just poted on another topic exactly what it i im getting at, pepole with aspergers genuinly crave routine, this is one of the abilitys im talking about. not many pepole can stand up to the same routine day in day out, many just get bored and sticking to a routine means we journey deeper into our tasks and learn more about them, hence becomming the best. you havent got to be a celebrity, or a super hero or a concorde piolt that some of you seem to think. its just utilising whatever your mannerisums are and using them to be the best at something, so over to you, its my time for me to prove myself to you all and see how deep my logic goes, tell me, and we,re going the other way now, tell me what daily habits you have, things you consider disabilitys, things that make life hard for you etc. i,ll see if i can show you how to use these thing to your advantage. and achive your potential, (rember even if your just a guy stacking shelves thats enough!) Edited March 16, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 16, 2012 A-S warrior my first comment is please do not feel that as someone with AS that you do not feel you can say what you want on a 'Aspergers and ASD UK Online Forum', I think everyone should remeber what it says at the top of the page and if they are not prepared to experience some very vibrant opinions then they are in the wrong place. I would also say that autistic traits lead to some very different writting styles which go in hand with some very alternative viewpoints in life. I have not been on the forum for that long and am just getting used to the styles of the 'regulars' as they are to mine I suspect. It has got to the point where i now smile when I see the pictures on the main board as my expectations rise as to the intelligent responses which await. At times I might not agree with replies but that is fine as I know people might not agree with me and I find it so refreshing when they say so as well. The last thing we should do is for those people with a diagnosis of ASD or those who believe they might have or are exploring the concept to fall out with each other. I only have to look at the images we attatch to our profiles to realise what a varied and as such highly valuable group we are. Take this in comparison with the majority of NT parents who never attatch a picture if it is it is often of their child and are very reticent to put up any interests as well, yet in contrast we are wonderfully open people. That openess can hurt a bit at times but it goes with the teritory. I have started to get to know a bit about Tally from her posts, I also have learned a lot about her from the support she recieved in the past week or so and as such she is held in great affection by many on this forum and would never intentionaly say something to hurt you, I don't think any of us would. My belief A-S warrior is be yourself and we will respect that. I think what Tally might be saying and Chris alluded to this point as I did with my iceberg analogy is we are a large and varied population. In some ways there are so many filters in life which allows a snapshot of population. The AS group with at university I suspect were all by the nature of it above average intelligence levels, as such it would be easy to say AS people have above average intelligence if that was your only experience. I have also met people with AS in anxiety management groups you could draw a strong conclusion that AS individuals are prone for example to panic attacks. I have met people with AS in art therapy groups and as such another conclusion might be all individuals with AS are creative. A final one is that people looking for inspiration give examples such as Bill Gates and I only look for aspect in his character I relate to an so see leadership and motivation qualities. When I step back from my experiences am I finding a description of AS as a condition, or have these experiences been a definition of myself, I would say the latter. I think what Tally is saying is be carefull about translating your own experiences and seeing that as a panecea for the condition, thats all. Tally in answering your question about remarkable feats and achievement in respect to the condition I do agree that for some of us AS can be a real positive, but I do not think its gold bar of considerable value which can be exchanged for success in any area of life in an instant. Rather I think we can be well suited to certain activities and many of us have traits which can really support this. I do not want to steal A-S warriors thunder here and would welcome his own response but i will use my current example in life and that is my approach to triathlon, I apologise for the length of what is to come but hope others can see some elements of themselves in what i am trying to achieve. After my diagnosis I decided to get fit as I was initialy unhappy with my weight was around 115kg, this initial project soon developed to the point where I sat back and thought what I needed in my life was a means of me expressing that part of me which is AS in a very positive way. It was about saying this is a good thing and this is what I can do with it. I then resurected a dream I had many years ago about qualification for the Ironman world championships. As my new 'special project' it had to have meaning and value so the natural conclusion was to aim for nothing short of the world championship. This event takes place every October in Hawaii and there are 1600 places and you need to qualify to get there. The race is a non stop event which is a 2.4 mile swim, followed by a 112 mile bike ride and finishes with a 26 mile marathon run. There is an event called Ironman UK and in my age group of about 150 males who are all super fit, the top 3 from the race can choose to go to Hawaii and race against the best in the world. To get a slot I know I need to break 10 hours to have a good chance given my age in a few years time, age 50 being my best chance. The first thing is this has to be a long term project you could never do this in just a couple of years. An autistic part of me can get really focused on special projects and this helps. I see things in very black and white terms as such I find it easy to relate to the fact you are fast enough you might get to go, if not you loose. Many NT's I meet in life always want to cover their backs what if im not quite good enough sort of approach they are before they start edging their bets and will settle for second or third best before they have even begun. In contrast I have a chart of where I need to get to each year if I do not get hit my targets games off and will drop the dream as its unrealistic that creates pressure but i have hit my targets to date. My first one was loose weight to be able to train seriously, I went from 115kg to 75kg in under 12 months by cycling about 13,000 miles, simple. Most NT's would try their best an be chuffed to bits at loosing a stone in weight in this time, not me. I have some very OCD tendancies, as a result the focus of these became diet. I found a software programme and logged everything I ate in respect to seperate weights of carbs, proteins and fats. My rule is 65% Carbs, 20% protein and 15% fat diet and I make it balance. I also know how many calories I burn through exercise and so make sure I do not over or under eat. I have in the past been described as having bi polar tendancies. I tend to think I act a lot in many situations as a coping strategy i am so good at this I can take on different personas. I now have two seperate coach and athelete ways of thinking and hold discusions with myself through the medium of my daily training log. The coach side of me loves all the data and makes all the plans and maps it all out for weeks in advance. I kind of let my coach side of me be the aggresive element from my personality. In contrast my athelete is very calm and focused on what needs to get done. This athelete uses another trait and that is I am used to stress in my life and know I have a high pain threshold and so I can train really hard if needed. I also know that my basic skills are more geared towards creative activities and so I produce lots of highly coloured charts and images which are one my walls and gives this side of me a motivation role in what is really a physical activity. All of my training is done alone, I have no training partners and am not in a club yet. I can relate to the idea of being a loner out in the hills running or cycling or of ploughing up and down a pool. This is my hidden weapon one day this loner will turn up to race and you better be ready for him guys I am here to take your spot and you thought you had all the competition sorted out in your head, but you havn't a clue who I am. This is real motivation for me. In my life i need to plan everything to feel in control, I feel now it is easy to plan a life out of a triathelete. If i am going to get anxious better to get anxious about things which matter have I got enough energy drink and bars with me, is my clothing appropriate for the weather conditions I might encounter in a few hours time, what is the wind direction how will this affect my session etc... I find now with a focus for my anxiety I do not worry about other things. The positive side to this is I never get caught out as I am a good planner. I could go on but won't. What i am trying to say and in doing so support A-S warriors beliefs is you can build achievement around the type of person you are, even if that is obsesive, detail focused, isolated and see things in absolutes as is my case. For me it is all about understanding how I tick. If I get to Hawaii and I believe i have as good if not better chance than most what I will find there will not be a field of AS atheletes though I suspect there will be far more than their fair share. Rather I will find individuals who had to work out how to get there their own way. What i do know everyone will have worked very hard to do so. Achievemnt is not built in a day or a week for that matter. Most achievement requires a massive adherance to routine on a consistent basis, and i think that is a challenge for a lot of us but once we get through it my experience is we are very much creatures of habit. On a final note I have no real previous record of being a super athelete in my younger days in fact I was very average so the extra thing which will have to get me to Hawaii is my AS and so I turn to it in trying to find the missing ingredient. I can remeber a year and a bit back when we had a period of snow which stuck for weeks I remeber getting through my training schedule missing only one day which was in fact caught up with. One typical day I cycled 110km a lot of it on snow with temperatures at -8 degrees thawing waterbottles inside my jersey next to my skin so I could get energy in me, why decause my plan said so. Another cyclist driving to work for a change in the bad conditions later described me as 'mad'. I thought about this for a bit and said to him 'no i'm autistic thats why'. I feel autism got me through that two week period as it does many others, I did not loose any fitness rather I was physically and importantly mentally stronger for my experience, as A-S warrior said autism can make the difference, I hope he is right when my day of reckoning comes around at Ironman UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) good post, i too am very precice with nutrtion, im a bodybuilder so my ratios have to be inch perfect i also train alone in a dark dungeon creating a monster (lol) i think in some ways alot of my logic was portraied in your post, again a-s sufferers prefer there own company and that eliminates distraction, to allow us to have the avantage, am i right? Edited March 16, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert7111a Report post Posted March 19, 2012 Wow, the blue touch paper is well and truly ablaze... Unfortunately I cannot see how AS can be a gift. But I'm also of the opinion that people with AS don't have to see it as a disability. Unfortunately most people who know nothing about AS are very negative towards such people simply because they don't understand (or wish to understand). A-S warrier, I applaud you taking the stance and encouraging us to empower our "gift" and do something about it. But for many, it's really not that simple. As has been pointed out, it's really dehabilitating and embarrassing for some people. Fortunately I have managed to "self-help" by reading books on the subject, books on body language etc but there is really no tutor to teach social skills for people my age. I have thought about a life coach but it would need to be someone with AS and there are none to my knowledge in London (but I'm happy to be corrected!). For many, the requisite skills that NT people take for granted need to be taught. Perhaps this is the way forward? Having the requisite social skills would instill a lot of confidence. But if this was possible for me, I wouldn't "change". I would still want to be the same person and do what I do. But others have heavier crosses to bear and must decide for themselves what to do Yes I agree meeting with like-minded AS people might help but we are all individuals and there might be some people who would prefer to communicate through a forum instead (like this one). Some AS people really like solice. One simply cannot generalise. People need to look at themselves individually and take what steps they find comfortable in order to help themselves. Lets face it, nobody is going to do this for them. Obsessiveness and attention to detail is often a plus - especially in the workplace as employers see you are meticulus and careful in your work. But as somebody else pointed out, having OCD doesn't mean that person has AS. And this is an AS forum. I feel generally very confident in my work and don't let my AS get in the way. I have the confidence to know what I'm talking about to my patients (well I should do by now after 20 years...!). To me, this is a plus. Anyway I'm in danger of rambling on here so I'll stop now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 19, 2012 AS a gift, thats a difficult one to answer and I can see that the majority of people with AS could never see it that way. The one thing that made me carry on seeking an explination about mu own life, was mainly down to the fact I could see these great discrepencies in my abilities which simply made very little sense to me. One good example of this is my handwritting has alwas been very poor and no matter how hard I try to be neat I simply can't. In contrast I can draw beautifully and produce some very detailed work free hand. For years this made no sense whatsoever to me and others. I now know that these two skills come from different parts of the brain and one area is possibly underdeveloped and the other one due to compensation possibly very well developed hence the discrepancy in my hand skills. For most NT's their skills will be pretty similar they will be both good if they have fine motor control, or if this is a weakness then they might be equally poor. To explore the concept of AS as a gift I sugest we think about playing a game. For arguments sake I could make out a list of 50 characteristics across a wide range of personal areas. These could be physical charateristics such as strength, motor control, flexibility. They could be mental characteristics such as intelligence, concentration, anxiety, creativity. Another group could be personality items such as sociability, communication, empathy etc... If I now gave you 500 points to allocate to these characteristics what would be your strategy if you could create a new you. I think some people would start by saying lets give every characteristic 10 points and make myself completely average. Other people might have a concept of the type of person they might want to be, a research scientist, a politician or a porn star even. In this case they might want to put a lot of their points into a small number of areas, where I will leave to your imagination. Whilst it might be fun to play this as a game life is not really like that, its more of a case that we get given a basic profile and we have to work with that. Sometimes this means we get loaded with some negative elements and sometimes we might even think we have no where near the number of points that other people around us might have, I think that might be true. So can AS ever be viewed as a gift, personally I think so. I believe that AS does not affect the whole profile of who we are and the characteristics that go to make us all individual, but it doesn't half affect a fair bit of these. Some of these characteristics might be associated with personality and others with the AS condition but together they might have a very high points score. For example I think I am creative, have good concentration, am a perfectionist, am a loner and have insomnia. These areas would each score way over 10 points in my personal profile as they are a big part of me. Put together these characteristics mean I can work long hours as a designer and produce very consistent work, so could I consider these elements to be a gift? I think the answer is as I have become older I would say yes far more so than when I was younger. Whilst these elements are high scorers on my profile there are lots of other things which might get a score of 1 or 2 and are real weaknesses for me. When I was younger and life seemed so much more about being a good all rounder these weak areas occupied an awfull lot of my thinking and could at times have a big impact on my life. Now that I am older and have go a far more mature perspective on my strengths and weaknesses and very importantly a lot of control over my life I have to a pretty large extent pushed my weaknesses to one side, sure they are there from time to time, but generally I do not opperate much in those type of areas. Now that I concentrate on my strengths and many of them have a strong AS aspect to them I can package them up in little bundles and see them as something of a gift. In many ways I think I was dealt a fairly good hand when I was born and as such on a personal level given the choice and the same hand I would choose to have Asperger's. I can fully understand that this will not be the case for many and we all need to respect that. I do believe however that as we learn more about ourselves and gain control over our lives things can improve for us considerably. Without doubt a lot of my weaknesses are almost fully compensated for by the characteristics of my partner which if you find the right person, if that is what you want, life can suddenly seem like a massive step forwards. She has been wonderfull for me in that she simply lets me focus on living a life which allows me to build it around my strengths rather than having expectations on me being something else. As such I do not feel the pressure to be a research scientist, a politician or even a porn star, rather I can simply get on with being myself and possibly for anyone with AS that is the greatest gift of all. a few thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SidiousUK Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I would say that my "gift" is my problem solving abilities and ability to recall of conversations I have had with someone if I am interested in what they have to say. But a gift can also be a curse as I HAVE to find a solution to any problem that I come across and finding this solution then becomes an obsession. But I do get stumped by the carbon based lifeform. If any of you have seen the latest Star Trek film, it is like when the computer is firing loads of logical questions at a young Spock, each of which are answered quickly and confidently. The last question that he cannot answers is :- "How do you feel?" I can't say if I would choose to have Aspergers were I given the choice as it is something I have had since birth but I would like to have known the answer/had a diagnosis to the question of "What am I the way I am". I was talking to someone who has known me for over 20 years and she said that people just thought I was odd and that she couldn't say if she would have behaved differently had she (or I) known I had Aspergers. SidiousUK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I was talking to someone who has known me for over 20 years and she said that people just thought I was odd and that she couldn't say if she would have behaved differently had she (or I) known I had Aspergers. Sidious I thought about this a lot since I recieved my diagnosis a few years back and looked at other people often over half my age and How they go about their lives. At one level I would always have had the choice as to whether or not to disclose my condition to my employers for example, I think as a matter of course I would. Without doubt though there where many times where things ran in to issues where I am sure I would have disclosed my AS even if I hadn't initially. Looking back it would without doubt have meant a boss would not have suspended me from work as it would have been a case of blatant discrimination and though I eventually had this situation ruled in my favour, there would not have been the initial trigger which set off a whole line of events. The really interesting point you make however is about people who are closer to us rather than those in a professional capacity. The obvious one for me is my partner with whom I have been together for 26 or 27 years now. When we first came across each other living in the same accomodation block at university I am sure she would have seen me as being a bit different for sure. If at the time she knew I had AS would she have made the same decision to get into a relationship? I know she saw me very much as a bit of a wild character who was a bit out of control at the time, and like a lot of women she possibly felt I can tame him. If on the other hand she knew she was engaging in a relationship with someone who would carry this condition for life would she have felt the same? I have also thought a lot about would I want my diagnosis earlier in my life. I was most deffinatly very driven in my 20's. I think a lot of this was due to my background and wanting to prove a point of getting up evertime I was knocked over. I do not think knowing about AS at this stage would have made a difference. I think I would have viewed it in a negative light at the time and just used it as something else against me to fuel the fire. In my 30's I remeber thinking at around the age of 33 that I had won the majority of these early adult battles and I didn't have anything left to prove and that fighting so hard was very draining on me and that I should take a different attitude to life. A diagnosis at this point might have been very different in that I think I was mature enough to be able to take it in a more positive light. My one concern with knowing at this age is I do not think I would have moved into areas such as foster care and cricket coaching rather I might have thought that these were steps a bit too far for an Aspie at the levels I did them at. If I had not done these things I would have missed out on some of the highlights of my life. I think for everyone our lives often tread a fine line of what ifs? Recieving a diagnosis as an adult throws in a massive what if question, the answer to which we will never know. I do feel Sidious we are part of a unique AS generation who will recieve a diagnosis a good way into our adult lives. I can remeber that meeting other individuals with AS at university who were all half my age thinking "you will all live your adult lives with AS, I have lived mine to date with it and without it all at the same time". What we are going to see over the next decade is that very few individuals with ASD's will get through the system without picking up a diagnosis, on balance I suspect that is a good thing. I do have my doubts however in a number of areas. I think for anyone on our society at present the ages between 16 and 30 life is a real challange in respect to work, housing etc... I was very fortunate to have not had these problems in my life, yet I still think this is a period where I would have on the whole been negative about my AS and definately not seen it as a gift. I sincerely hope we are not creating a generation of people diagnosed over this and the last decade who finding adult life very hard as will many simply see their AS as the reason for this and who develop a very destructive attitude towards the condition. Whilst at present we are struggling to find the resources to support such diagnosis in scholl environments, I can see a point in the future where we might have to face massive demands for mental health services to support this population, all with a label to go with them. At one level we can ask would an earlier diagnosis have made a big difference in our lives. I find I am now asking the question would being born into a different generation have made a big difference in my life? And again in hindsight I would still take the brutal school environment I went through and feeling like I was a very rough working class lad trying to find my way in a very middle class world, rather than having a diagnosis and being in a society where there is massive youth unemployment and limited graduate opportunities with housing a real issue. I also think that mental health services are becoming more and more over stretched and in this respect support services are taking steps backwards. I will have things as they are and consider myself to be lucky that I have got so far in my life to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SidiousUK Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I would say that my diagnosis has solved the problem of why I can never seem to get past a certain level of management. When it gets to the point of having to tell half truths or being devious I struggle. I am more happy playing with my shiney metal boxes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I think management is a big issue for anyone who has AS in the workplace as often it has a large social skills element in the required skillset. I was very fortunate that I came across a number of people who recognised that there are plenty of managers out there but in comparison very few leaders. As a result I have been afforded opportunities to lead groups of individuals in my past and have been fortunate to have been blessed with some very good top class managers within my teams who have been able to compensate for my weakneses at times. The problem in a lot of organisations is they think leaders emerge from the management structures and in reality any experts will tell you they require very different character profiles. People who make good mangers are often preocuppied in manitaining the status quo and are often in my experience very risk averse. They are also not always good at being creative in their thinking rather they are very structured individuals. Because they spend their time embeded in what is around them they are poor at predicting and seeing new opportunities away from thier normal environments. I am not having a go here at people in management rather I really respect what they can do but true leaders are like gold dust in the marketplace. I have been tested on a number of occasions by organisations and always come out as a very strong leader. I have had two offers in my lifetime to relocate to the USA and New Zealand with the opportunity to pick where in the country to base myself and that the organisations would set me up in a pretty decent house, I turned both offers down for family reasons. I could offer numerous examples in my life in education, business and sport where I show top end leadership ability. A lot of this ability is either down to or is fully supported by my strong autistic traits. I think in this country there is very much a lack of recognition on the role leadership plays in any effective organisation, a lot of this is cultural. Senior Management is seen as the top of the pile, we do not like the idea of one or two individuals exerting a lot of influence over decisions, rather we believe in the concept of a committe which in reality never really takes responsibility for anything but rather acts as a human insurance concept. Because of this preocupation with management instead of leadership people with AS are really disadvantaged at the top end of the workplace, there is an artificial glass ceiling. I would very much agree with you Sidious that I to felt the pressure of this glass ceiling but was very fortunte to be given opportunities to pass straight through it. I am not saying here that everyone with AS has leadership potential but I do believe that if we profiled the Aspie population there would be far more than the fair share of individuals in our community. The majority of people who I have come across in my working life with shall we say 'very strong autistic traits' have come from a small number of areas. They were all either creatives a lot in technology areas, top international sportspeople, or leaders. I can remeber that I used to work with a very high profile cutting edge technology company within the education sector which was based in the USA. I would meet up with the company directors in this country frequently and the meetings would always be a bit of a strain for me and progress slow and steady in what we were doing. Twice a year the leaders and owners from the States would fly in for a long weekend conference and we would meet up from about Thursday onwards play golf on the owners own golf course get drunk on very expensive brandy he would bring across for us to share type of thing. We would also make gut instinct decisions of what we were going to do in the future and these decisions might take only a few minutes but would influence a lot of people. I would imediatly feel at home and be welcomed into the US pack and a lot of the British management structure would not like this, hence why everything was strained for the rest of the year. They were all concerned that I was after one of their jobs, something which never passed my mind untill It was suggested I might want one which I imediatly said no to and supported wholeheartedly the individual in post. I bet if you had done an assesment across the US organisation at the top of the company well over 70% of individuals would in my opinion end up with an AS diagnosis. I use this example to highlight what I think is a cultural context that is at play here. If we had a different culture in this country we would see leadership is a quality in short supply, rather we don't mind having experts but we do not trust them and so feel they need carefull management. I think there is a strong reason for this and that is all to do with two World Wars in Europe and the legacy it has left, 'experts have the potential to be a force for bad as well as good' and we have a national characteristic to play safe. I think in this culture being a backroom expert is often a good result for individuals with AS. The problem we are facing economically at present is a result of this culture we are not competitive enough in the world and as a result we are suffering badly. If we are to make progress on a world stage we need to recognise leadership as the driving force that it should be. In such a climate there would be a search for qualities in this area and when we find people what their backgrounds are would become less relevant. We have seen this kind of approch happen to a small extent in class structures. In some niche areas we are finding that conditions such as Dyslexia are often an indication of creative qualities so employers are now looking positivly on someone with a diagnosis of dyslexia in their recruitment processes. In conclusion I do think many people with AS are gifted and that gift will be very important in the future. I for one feel I am gifted and as such feel a strong responsibility to use that gift in a positive manner. For this reason I currently choose to develop concepts and ideas about how we can live in more sustainable communities which integrate shelter, water, food supplies, energy, social well being etc... I think the time will come for people like me to take a lead in where we are going, but the time is not right at present even though all the issues are, I am currently developing ideas for small scale low cost zero energy condensing units to extract fresh water from sea water against a background of newly introduced hose pipe bans. When that time comes round I think we might see an Aspie revolution as many people like me come to front, we will be looking for a new breed of people in this country to act as the catalyst for change. In my opinion what we are seeing now is the last days of a bygone time being played out on a global scale. When that change happens traditional concepts such as management structures will seem very dated and unfashionable as they now are in some very dynamic sectors. In a new culture I think there will be one massive gift that we all as Aspies will share, and that is a feeling of disconection with society as it is currently constructed. As a result I believe we will be more than happy to leave current values behind whilst many NT's will continue to cling on to a false belief that maintaining the status quo is possibly the best way to go. I am optimistic for the futre as I have met some very capable individuals who are focused on solving key problems, a lot are very autistic. Because I am optimistic I share A-S Warrior's excitement as I think his time is coming, but we are not there yet. When cultural attitudes start to change around AS then naturally attitudes of individuals with the condition will change to. I think the Aspie community will have more and more role models on which to draw inspiration from. That is not to say everyone will play a very active role in society but in a similar way that we have over the past few decades seen the growth in 'black' role models I think a more positive attitude will pervade throughout 'black communities' and importanly society as a whole. In the same way black role models have emerged in music and sports environments as a lead in an we are now only just starting to see black politicians, bussiness leaders etc... I think there will be a number of ASD lead in areas. In a similar way as racism is still a large factor in society discrimination against conditions such a ASD's will persist and some individuals will inevitable experience a life which is far from happy, not all black people are musical or atheletically gifted. But I hope the average situation for the autistic community will improve considerably as it has done in this country for the black community. just a few thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyndalou Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I was told by the man who assessed me to give me an opinion as to whether or not I have AS that I have an 'autistic cognitive difference' that had clearly given me significant difficulties throughout my life and that I fulfilled having problems across the triad of impairments. However, it was his view also that I did not 'at all times' experience problems to the exent that would require a clinical diagnosis possibly by virtue of the fact that I had an 'inner strength' that had somehow protected me from the full impact of those difficulties. Personally, I think that is a complete load of old cobblers. Since when did determination count as a valid reason not to have a brain disorder? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert7111a Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Personally, I think that is a complete load of old cobblers. Since when did determination count as a valid reason not to have a brain disorder? I suppose it depends on whether you have the "ability" and to deal with your difficulties and how determined you are to accept and combat these difficulties. I accept that for some, dealing with AS is extremely difficult whilst for others, difficulties might be less severe and easier to cope with. Depends whether the man who assessed you was really interested in your issues or just wanted to fob you off to make you feel better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyndalou Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I suppose the way I view things is that although I've had (I think) quite severe difficulties over the years, my own determination to get through and improve my life plus the determination of my parents has got me to where I am today. Unfortunately, I think that 'appearances' count so much to professionals as does a very limited view by professionals (and parents, I might add) of what people with ASD can achieve if they focus on their strengths and learn to cope with the problems they have. I have always been very determined. At 7, I was determined to beat Karen in the running race at Sports Day. We practised for it in the gym hall and I was not going to let a little thing like a wall stop me from beating her so I ran right into it and smashed my glasses into my face in the process! I would never accept being told what I could and couldn't do and hated anyone thinking I was stupid so I practised at home to stand on my head for longer, to bounce balls off the walls quicker, to beat the rest of the class at spelling. I didn't like being compared to my very clumsy sister so I taught myself ways to watch that I didn't bump into furniture or stub my toes as often. After the class completely ostracised me at age 11 I decided that no-one would see me get angry again (and no-one did for many years). I decided that I would try my hardest not to show how hard my legs wobbled with the terror of bumping into the girls with the 'special powers', that if the stammer started I would stop talking, that I would plaster a smile on my face, that I would accept being bullied by my best friend at secondary because I clearly deserved everything I got and try my best not to upset her or pass a test she didn't want me to or she would give the word and her 'other friend' would do me over. Fast forward to age 25 and the realisation I had no friends because of the complete fear of letting anyone get too close, no real prospects because although I had a hard worked for degree I had no notion about what I wanted to do and always got extremely stressed in whatever job I'd been in since Art College. I had been told in one job that I 'needed to grow a backbone'. I got fired from another but was made to sit in a separate area for a week before they let me go which was utterly humiliating. At college, I'd lasted about a month on the checkouts in a supermarket but to this day I feel the humiliation of sitting there with the checkout supervisor going through my till receipts in front of a queue that stretched to the back of the shop because I lost track of what I should tap on the till when I got muddled by the man going through with 12 cabbages. I recognised I could not work with numbers. I recognised that I was unable to do a job which involved explaining technological concepts. I realised that the job I had enjoyed most to date was working in an industrial laundry because I was told what to do and just got on with it and didn't have to speak to anyone in the process. I recognised I was turning into my dad with regards to how things were with other people. I decided I didn't want to get to my dad's age and be bitter and upset about having no real friends and pretending that it didn't (and doesn't) upset me like him. I was determined that I would not continue to be called neurotic, highly strung by other people. Even though I would sit in the dark on my own and wonder what it would be like to screw my head off and put someone else's on, I learned to look serene, to be self-depreciating. So, at age 28 I saw a job in the paper. It required an Art Degree and I had one. It was a huge jump into the dark but if I had any chance of getting my own flat one day it was a jump I was willing to take. I was determined to get that job - it was my way out of sublets and even if I had to live on beans for ever I would do it. I got it. I had to work my backside off, learn all about mental health, learn to get over my hatred of letting people watch me work. I got my flat. I worked very hard at keeping the friends I made but the trick was to always look in control, always agree, never cause any friction if I could help it. I taught myself to walk with my feet pointing forward as I was fed up of mum commenting about the strange way I walked. It was pointed out to me that it was obvious what kind of mood I was in by the colours I wore so I made a point of wearin 'happier' colours. My job got harder. I got more responsibility and my job role changed. I had a mortgage and bills to pay. I was told that I went about my supervisory role in the wrong way and at the same time the bullying from other staff began. The bullying was never tackled and I had no option but to undergo a year of 'Work Counselling' to 'change my approach to my job'. Clients complained about me and I was accused of expecting too much from my staff - I was too perfectionist et al. Nevertheless, I had to redo work that customers complained about because the people I was expecting too much of didn't do the job well enough, I had to struggle to do statistics for funding while my boss sat and played patience on his computer. Over and above this I became extremely expert in hiding the extreme stress I was under. I was determined to get another job to pay my bills, to escape the hell. I studied like hell, practiced and practised for the interview for the job I went for next. I got it. I worked like hell in that job too, even though I was petrified of the girl I shared my office with. My assessor sees me now. A married woman in a nice house with a comfortable lifestyle. He has no notion of how it is possible to hide all the ######, to suppress all the anxiety. He has no notion of how much effort it has take over the years to get to this point....still terrified of getting close to people but for all the world looking confident and easy-going, for want of a better word 'normal'. I am not going to apologise for having the life I have because I've worked damn hard for it but just because I've been determined to get through school, get through Uni, learn over time that I am worth more than being called 'Stupid Girl' by my first serious boyfriend and being a leg-over for a user alcoholic among others, that I don't have the huge panic attacks like the one I had that landed me in A&E on the Millenium, that I have valid opinions and that I am actually quite intelligent even though my husband has to deal with all the finances and I can barely remember what we agreed we'd have for dinner. Determination is a good thing, an incredible force but it doesn't cancel out Aspergers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Lyndalou, I have just logged on to see what has been hapening on the forum in the last few hours and have just read your last post through a number of times. I have cried and then smilled in the last few minutes of my life. Since I have joined the forum I have tried so hard to get my own feelings across and I do not feel I have come even slightly close to being able to do what you have put out there earlier tonight. I have felt my personal approach was best served by being pragmatic, what you have written has transcended that in my own mind, it is simply open, raw, honest and of great value to all that read it. What you have written feels like it has so many parallels to my own life, yet I feel fraudulent for even considering we may have something in common. All I can do therfore is respect everything you have written about your own life. just want to say, thank you from the deepest receses of my heart, I was and am very moved! LancsLad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SidiousUK Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Interesting reading Lyndalou. Sort of makes my saying of "we are the product of what people make us" ring true in my ears. I see myself as Frankenstein's monster and one day I will go looking for my creators. I never forget and I never forgive (school bullies beware!) As Edmund Dantes says in the Count of Monte Cristo - Don't take away my hate, It's all I have Throughout life, I have used this hate to my advantage to fuel my passion and become the best at what I do for a living and what I am interested in (which happen to be the same thing) Everyone is different, but I find if I treat something as a game it becomes eaiser to to as I only play games to win SidiousUK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-S warrior Report post Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) here we go, A-S warriors ever debatable analysis once again. rember this is from my perspective, so pepole that are getting upset either start your own thread or dont read mine. if you cant respect my opinion and be civil with me then please dont post, debate with me fine but dont rule it out. ok anyway, here is the list of common symptoms of aspergers that i have copied and pasted, my replys are in capitals "Asperger suffers can be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many pepole with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs". - HAHA YOU KIDDING ME? WHY IS THIS A DISABILITY? "Avoid eye contact or stare at others." - YEAH BECAUSE ITS RUDE, AND MILDLY INTIMIDATING FOR PEPOLE. "Have unusual facial expressions or postures". - INDIVDUALITY? CARISMA? ENTERTAINING GIVEN THE RIGHT OCCASION? WHY IS IT A DISABILITY BREAKING THE MOULD? Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking. - ALOT OF WHAT PEPOLE SAY IS USELESS SMALL TALK ANYWAY AND PREVENTS GETTING THE JOB THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, DONE! ALSO THESE ARE TRAITS THAT MAKE THE BEST DOCTORS AND SURGENS AS WE KEEP OUR PERSONAL ISSUES TO OURSELVES AND GET ON WITH THE TASK IN HAND. AND IF WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY IS IMPORTANT THAN WE HAVE TO CUT IN ON A CONVOSATION. "Appear to lack empathy". - STOP CRYING, AND GET ON WITH WHAT YOUR MENT TO BE GETTING ON WITH, AND STOP WASTING TIME. HARSH? YES BUT IN THIS WORLD SOMETIMES PEPOLE HAVE TO SUCK IT UP AND SOILDER ON. AGAIN A TRAIT THAT THE BEST DOCTORS AND SURGENS HAVE. "Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized". - DEDICATION? DETERMINATION? PASSION? DRIVE? OPTIMISUM? ZONED IN? ALL TRAITS THAT NORMAL PEPOLE ARE LACKING, BIG TIME! those are a few to chew on for now, i,ll find more and respond to them. basicly i see aspergers as a ratio, for every 1 disability i find 4 abilitys to counter them. again if you disagree just disagree, you dont have to write off my opinion. im up for a debate and a challange but dont be one of those pepole that go out there own way to try and debunk my opinion. rember im one of you too, i come here to experiment some of my theorys and ideas. im young and keen to help make fellow asperger sufferers more positive, i was diagnosed early in life and had the help, my goal is to attempt to pass on that help to the pepole that wernt as fortunate as myself. im here to help not to argue and get aggressive. Edited March 22, 2012 by A-S warrior Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LancsLad Report post Posted March 22, 2012 I do not think you can take age out of the equation when analysing how people might relate to their own conditions. I am not refering to my own age which is 46, but rather the age and conditions which we were brought up through and have lived in. Sidious in raising the question are we a product of what people make us highlights well this area. As I have become older society has become far more open and a lot more tolerant, the older we are the more we can see this process. I would describe it as a process of moving away from post war communal values to one of individualistic value. I personally think we are often a reflection of were this transition in society was at when we were between the ages of 15 and 25 which are very critical years in the development of our ideas around personal identity. A-S Warrior I think a lot of what you say reinforces this idea. I believe your ideas come across as very individualistic, you do not sense a need to conform to other peoples preconceptions, you see this as a small planet and there is room for everybody and that diversity is good, the idividual has the right to exert their own power in influencing their lifes outcome. You might be right or wrong in this view if that view is correctly interperated by myself. If we go back a couple of generations I am sure many people with AS would have been seen as being a bit different, a bit peculiar. The social driving force of community in many areas would have meant that they were 'tolerated' as part of that community and would have found a place within it. As kids we might have teased such individuals but as we grew older we would have understood these communal values and respected them. What I think we have seen over the past 50 years is the transfare between these two positions. This has not been instant but rather it has happened at different rates in differenct contexts. The communal society might still exist in some small rural communities and traditional high density traditional working class towns. The first areas to move towards individualism being our major cities. For me as an 18 year old moving out of my home situated in the middle of rows of terraced two up two down properties in a run down norther town and moving to London as a student this transofmation was pretty instant. I felt very alone and had to adapt quickly, I was also at an age where I was formulating a sense of self identity. A-S Warrior because of these environmantal factors I personally support a lot of what you say but that doesn't mean other people are wrong, rather I can easily see why they think that way. The reason I raise this concept is that I think a lot of people of a certain age have become kind of caught in no 'mans land' in this respect. I was brought up seeing a community support structure all around me and people pulling together in times of need such as the minners strike which hit my town hard. To be then thrust into a time where you have problems but you are on your own mate is a very different proposition than being brought up in that culture. I think within my generation there is a lot of diversity between the haves and have nots, I believe in general there is a lack of solidarity in my generation. In contrast I would say that our older generation have on the whole remained pretty true to their generational values of communal attitudes. They seem to be very 'tolerant' of each other from a desire to maintain group responsibility, they might not be a racist because it is the 'groups' perception that society has moved on from such positions. I would also say having lived within them for a few years out sub 25 generation has a lot of solidarity running through them and this is very much driven by individuality and a feeling of equality, even though this is not true, people hide their differences such as wealth as a means to being accepted. The younger generation are not racist because they believe in the rights of the 'individual' and have to view others as they would want to be viewed themselves. I think there is a case that a lot of anger and frustration derives from how we see our place in the world and a general feeling that there isn't a place for many of us. I think Sidious is right that we are products of our environment. I am not saying it is easier to live with AS today than it was 20 years ago, rather I do not think that is the case at all, I suspect it is very much the same. What I am saying is that each generation might well have a different way of relating to their situation and that background societal environments conditions play a significant role. We need to be able to adapt to new environments and each subsequent AS generation would I hope be a bit better adapted to cope in a rapidly changing world. I also think for good reasons some of us find this very difficult we are not accepted into our communities with open arms, and we are neither the dynamic independant individual able to deal with fast paced living. just a few ideas, realise that these are massive generalisations so please do not take them personally trying to simply provide food for thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkshine Report post Posted March 23, 2012 here we go, A-S warriors ever debatable analysis once again. rember this is from my perspective, so pepole that are getting upset either start your own thread or dont read mine. if you cant respect my opinion and be civil with me then please dont post, debate with me fine but dont rule it out. again if you disagree just disagree, you dont have to write off my opinion. im up for a debate and a challange but dont be one of those pepole that go out there own way to try and debunk my opinion. rember im one of you too, i come here to experiment some of my theorys and ideas. im young and keen to help make fellow asperger sufferers more positive, i was diagnosed early in life and had the help, my goal is to attempt to pass on that help to the pepole that wernt as fortunate as myself. im here to help not to argue and get aggressive. Hi AS-Warrior, The problem with your post is not that you have strong opinions, and it isn't that you are obviously getting a little defensive either (although you seem to be) as there's a fair bit of negativity about your thoughts on other people's reactions/responses. It's that the examples you list prompts a negative reaction because your interpretations are not necessarily going to be everyone else's interpretations of those factors, and that you challenge people to disagree (while informing them to be constructive - and - saying if they have a problem to not read your posts) Anyway.... since I have a little free time here's my response to your examples: I wouldn't say that any of these things counts as a disability in themselves - but - they do have negative effects sometimes... here is the list of common symptoms of aspergers that i have copied and pasted, my replys are in capitals "Asperger suffers can be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many pepole with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs". - HAHA YOU KIDDING ME? WHY IS THIS A DISABILITY? This is negative for me because I can never share things - I do like my own company a lot, but sometimes I get the urge to share things in my life so that people understand me, however, because of the nature of my interests I very seldom find someone who can share and enjoy them like I do because they can't cope with how I think or the way I think - its confusing to the people I know and makes them feel stupid - which is negative because I'm not trying to do that to them, I'm just trying to share things sometimes and it only serves to push people away in the main "Avoid eye contact or stare at others." - YEAH BECAUSE ITS RUDE, AND MILDLY INTIMIDATING FOR PEPOLE. Lack of eye contact makes conversation hard sometimes, makes it hard to connect, its different and makes me as a person seem different, it makes me feel VERY uncomfortable and in certain environments it is a factor that makes it exceptionally hard to progress with people (like professional environments where people look at each other across tables and it seems weird when the other person is busy analysing the ceiling tiles or the books on a shelf or the amount of holes in a pinboard etc etc etc). Staring makes people uncomfortable yeah, but I've all too often found myself being physically threatened because people have thought I had a problem with them or something and I've then had them come swearing, shouting and threatening me, all over a misunderstanding because I didn't get the eye-contact just right. "Have unusual facial expressions or postures". - INDIVDUALITY? CARISMA? ENTERTAINING GIVEN THE RIGHT OCCASION? WHY IS IT A DISABILITY BREAKING THE MOULD? I've used A LOT of energy over the years having to remember how to stand, walk, sit, move, and be somewhat normal. Why? Because I don't like people looking at me like I'm a freak and I don't like people commenting on me or what I'm doing. Take "strange" arm/hand movements for example - this is mildly embarrassing for me - when I am happy or excited I would like to point, flap, or wave my arms around, sometimes I like to walk fast on my toes to find someone and my arms will not be at my sides. This is something I try to NEVER do in front of people - why? Because it makes me look like a total idiot!!!!! Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking. - ALOT OF WHAT PEPOLE SAY IS USELESS SMALL TALK ANYWAY AND PREVENTS GETTING THE JOB THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, DONE! ALSO THESE ARE TRAITS THAT MAKE THE BEST DOCTORS AND SURGENS AS WE KEEP OUR PERSONAL ISSUES TO OURSELVES AND GET ON WITH THE TASK IN HAND. AND IF WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY IS IMPORTANT THAN WE HAVE TO CUT IN ON A CONVOSATION. Strange though this may seem some of us actually want to have friends - short of waiting a decade for that one special person who can see past all the AS stuff - it becomes important to try to emulate the "nt" people in order to live, work, be amongst or have relationships with them. I've found that some AS behaviour is counted as being an ar5ehole be a lot of "nt's" and as such it then becomes worthwhile to work with them and not against them or by ourselves - some people get lonely!! And not everyone wants to be a doctor etc. "Appear to lack empathy". - STOP CRYING, AND GET ON WITH WHAT YOUR MENT TO BE GETTING ON WITH, AND STOP WASTING TIME. HARSH? YES BUT IN THIS WORLD SOMETIMES PEPOLE HAVE TO SUCK IT UP AND SOILDER ON. AGAIN A TRAIT THAT THE BEST DOCTORS AND SURGENS HAVE. Empathy is important - and lacking it makes a person look like a heartless bast4rd - sometimes this is contrary to progression in life and relationships - sometimes everyone wants someone to understand and care. I lack empathy at times - and its an effort to do - but - because of my efforts people think of me as understanding (this is also because I tend to just listen to people a lot as I get conversations messed up - they interpret this as a quality I find - even though it annoys the hell out of me sometimes) "Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized". - DEDICATION? DETERMINATION? PASSION? DRIVE? OPTIMISUM? ZONED IN? ALL TRAITS THAT NORMAL PEPOLE ARE LACKING, BIG TIME! Rude, arrogant, ignorant, uncaring, impatient, demeaning, did I say rude? I always think that when someone does it to me "I wish you'd shut up - YOU ARE BORING ME" And that's why I tend to not do this - because what is the point in talking if nobody is listening because they are bored and think you're rude? As such I say little. Well, there you go, a challenge to your ideas - as you sort of requested. I wonder if you'll ignore this one as you did earlier in this post? Regards Darkshine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special_talent123 Report post Posted March 23, 2012 everyone we all have our own opinions mine and warriors see it is a gift. MY view of GIFT is that I have and myself have talent in areas that others have difficulty with. 'Art and Singing' is one. I can sing, and so can my friend but she broke her communication barrier but she uses her singing to help her communicate. she and I have been awarded things for our 'TALENTS' and 'AWARENESS' and 'ACHIEVEMENTS' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
