Face Blindness

[darkshine]

I find it difficult to recognise people I've only met once or twice, and when people change their appearance I find it hard to compute who a person is and whether I know them, especially out in the street or something.

 

Also I find it difficult to describe people, I see them as key features like "big nose" "moustache" "glasses" and possibly if they have hair that is particularly noticeable then I might remember that.

 

I worry sometimes because I can't see my families faces in my mind and I sometimes wish I could see their faces in my mind so I could remember them in a visual way but I can't do it.

 

I look at photos of people because it helps me familiarise myself with them because I can stare at a photo for as long as I want - and it helps in remembering someone new so I feel more familiar with them - but if I was in a room like at a pub or a wake or something, or in a town centre I panic a bit because I struggle to find people. And you can't always take photos of everyone you meet can you?

 

I can locate and recognise people who I have known a long time - I still struggle to locate them but once I do I know who they are.... most of the time I try to remember what a person is wearing and I find them that way instead.

 

I have had difficulties with eye contact for a long time, and though its a bit better now cuz I've been making an effort since last year at it - I did wonder if this was part of why I struggle to find people - although it has nothing to do with not remembering members of my families' faces in my mind.

 

I also struggle to place people when they are in a different context, a woman waved at me the other week and I ignored her cuz I didn't recognise her, later I was in the place she worked and she moaned at me and it all clicked into place in my mind.

 

I don't know if I have face-blindness or not, but its the closest thing I can think of for a topic title and I wondered if anyone else has similar issues.

 

And I'm interested what people think of my idea of looking at photos to become more familiar to say friends or colleagues or acquaintances to assist in recognising them in different contexts/places that the norm.

[Lyndalou]

Hi Darkshine,

 

I believe that the technical term is 'Prosopagnosia' for what you are describing. I looked into this a while back as I have a certain amount of the problems you describe but perhaps not quite to the same extent. However, I think my problems in this area fluctuate.

 

I think the symptoms can range from very severe ie, like the man who wrote the book 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat' (although this might be a slightly different condition - visual agnosia) and others have difficulties recognising people or remembering what people look like or they need visual 'hooks' to recognise people like what their nose looks like or how they walk.

 

I always muddle up two women (their children went to playgroup with my son) who have similar haircuts but otherwise they look very little alike. People speak to me who I vaguely recognise and know who I am, who my children are and what I spoke to them about the last time I saw them and I grasp at straws and search for clues in what they say as to who they are and who their kids are etc. Often I recognise the way they walk or their voice. Sometimes I get away with it and sometimes I don't. I went for a walk one cold and wintry night and a woman shouted on me and started speaking to me and asking me questions all about recent issues in my life and sharing with me how her kids were (not saying their names so I was totally stuck). She was wearing a hood tightly over her head as it was so cold. I spoke to her for half an hour then went home wracking my brains as to who she was. It came to me that I had met her 2 months earlier and she was a friend of a friends and I had spoken to her a good hour when I was there. I'm sure that I looked so rude but sometimes I think it looks even more rude to ask '...and who are you again?'.

 

I think that my problems are not just visual but it's my memory in general that lets me down and it's the combination of the two which causes the disconnect.

 

I also think it's like everything else where one experiences problems. You get so used to it and it's the 'norm' so you find little techiniques to cover up and pretend and muddle through.

 

I know my problems are not as bad as some people's. I don't know what I'd do if it happened with everyone! I do recognise people but it's mostly people I've only met once or twice or I haven't seen for a while who I struggle with. I have trouble when people are out of context if I know them from a 'job' situation; I didn't recognise the nurse who had jabbed me in the bum for the last 3 years when she was in her civvies!

 

It's all fun!!

Edited November 12, 2012 by Lyndalou

[Mannify]

Face blindness is such a pain. I can easily walk past someone, with no recognition, in the afternoon to whom I've spoken in the morning! My daughter started school in September, so that's a whole class of parents to potentially get to know, but I'm gradually alienating them as I do just that - talk to them and then fail to recognise them within short spaces of time. I just walk past them with no recognition, and must quite reasonably appear distant and unfriendly. I don't blame them at all for thinking I'm unpleasant.

 

Like Lyndalou, context is another issue. I saw a mum week in, week out at a play group thing for a year, then I saw her out of context and didn't recognise her at all until some time later after having trawled my brain. She was obviously not impressed. There is a family who live exactly opposite us who are really lovely. We don't live in each other's pockets, but there's an understanding between us, because they have similar issues to us. So, these are people in whom we have some degree of emotional investment. Nonetheless, I went to a support group and the husband was there and I simply couldn't place him. Mercifully, he was lovely enough to be unoffended when I was just very honest about not recognising him out of context. I have, however, had people stop speaking to me because I haven't recognised them.

 

There is another gentleman on our estate who had three different dogs in quick succession (one had parvo virus - despite vaccinations, one had a congenital issue, and the third survives). Because the dogs were different I kept failing to recognise him. I did eventually learn to recognise him, at which point I over-compensated, and I worry that he thought I was flirting!

 

People whom I know well and recognise immediately still present the issue of me not noticing changes such as loss and gain of weight (unless it's profound), and hairstyle (again, unless it's drastic), and I rarely notice and remember what people are wearing (unless it's highly noticeable).

 

I don't think it's a memory thing, per se, because that wouldn't account for the morning/afternoon thing, and I don't think it's a visual thing as such, because I'm a visual learner. I don't know what it is exactly.

 

And I'm interested what people think of my idea of looking at photos to become more familiar to say friends or colleagues or acquaintances to assist in recognising them in different contexts/places that the norm.

 

If there was a situation which would allow for pre-prep, such as maybe a wedding, then I definitely think photos would help.

[raydon]

Oh God tell me about it.

 

Face blindness has got me into so much trouble in the past, mistaking one person for another, or not even recognising them at all, that I never approach anybody unless I am absolutely sure that I do know who they are. A consequence of this is, I can appear very unfriendly. I also never use the persons name when talking to them, which compounds that impression.

 

The net result is, over the years, I have set up defence barriers which stop me from making the original gaffes, but I have ended up isolated.

 

When watching an interview on TV, I invariably watch what is happening in the background and barely notice the face.

 

I suppose with the brain working so hard just to recognise people, it is yet another reason to explain the exhaustion caused by socialising.

 

Yet, there are some people who have a certain charisma I can remember well, but that has nothing to do with their face.

Edited November 13, 2012 by raydon

[Mannify]

Yeah, and do you find yourself staring at someone when they're looking in another direction in order to determine whether they are someone you know, and then realise you don't, by which time they've looked around and are wondering what in hell you're staring at?

 

And like you Raydon, I have just ignored people I think I might know, coz I'm just not sure enough.

[darkshine]

I was supposed to meet someone earlier today, I don't know where they live as I've never been round their house and they said call me when you are close, I had the address so I got a lift and went that direction, I wasn't sure where I was going other than having a map in my head and the map didn't have the location I wanted only the road names - so I said to my mate "pull over and I'll ask that person there" and so I go "Excuse me mate? Do you know where....." and then they laughed and said "hello" and I realised it was the person I was supposed to be meeting - even I have to admit that it was pretty damn funny and I'm glad I can see the funny side despite the initial embarrassment

[Sally44]

And faceblindness is not just limited to those on the spectrum. My husband must be boardering on it. Sometimes I wonder how he recognises me! And a friend of my father cannot recognise people. He only told me recently, and now I understand why he really looks hard at you when you meet him, and how it often takes a couple of sentences into a conversation before he recognises who you are and calls you by name.

 

My son has this and it causes alot of anxiety because people can be familiar and yet unfamiliar at the same time. He is often worried he knew someone, or didn't know someone he has already met. In school he said it meant he never knew which kids were his friends and which were his enemies. That must be very scary. Because it is not just about the face itself, it is about facial expression, gestures, voice tone etc. If you cannot get the key information others are receiving, you must often find yourself in a situation where you get snapped at, or you say something you think is in line with the other persons 'mood' and have totally misread it and upset them or made them angry.

 

Personally, I think the best thing to do is to tell all family and friends what the problem is ie. you struggle to recognise them, especially when they look or maybe smell different. And tell anyone new that you meet that you have this difficulty so that they don't think you are ignoring them. Ask EVERYONE to introduce themselves to you regardless of how well they know you. It will save you alot of time, and alot of anxiety if they just give that information up front.

[indiscreet]

If someone changes their hairstyle - or worse, hair colour - I'm lost. It was extremely awkward when I taught and I upset so many children when I didn't recognize them outside the classroom - or inside it come to that.

 

I'm good, though, at remembering clothes, and voices and the way people walk.

[Mannify]

I agree, Sally, that being as open as possible helps. I try that where possible, although I don't always get it right. Our neighbour who lives opposite didn't mind once I'd explained, although to some extent that's down to the type of guy he is.

 

 

[raydon]

Here's a link to an article in Psychology Today about how faces are perceived.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201210/whats-in-face

 

With all that stuff going on no wonder I can't recognise the person

[LancsLad]

I have 'Prosopagnosia' to the extent I struggle to pick out my son when I pick him up from school and there are just two or three kids there. I have lost a battle today because my partner insist he goes for a hair cut on the way home from school. The fact he took scissors to it himself over the weekend highlighted democracy should rule. I really like his 'mad scientist' hair style and he does most of the time because it goes with his cool BMX racer look which he has cultivated. I like it because no one else in his school hasd hair like that. When I pick him up tomorrow I will be stuffed. How I wish we had the 'ginger' gene in our family life would be so much easier.

 

I think the answer is just accept it. When I am stood at the school gates looking blank trying to pick him out he says to his teachers "that's my dad he hasn't got a clue about spotting me". As such the teachers know. In fact a lot of people know. I can go to pick my partner from the train station and decide to stand on the platform and she will be able to walk up to me and be right in front of my face and say "Hi". I will jump a bit then recognnise her voice and thing oh yes you are the one I have been in a relationship with for 27 years! Now I can guess this might ###### off a few people but if you know me its just part of the package. What makes this more difficult is when I say things like I saw you today just after dinner time, and they ask where. "Oh you was driving the other way up the motorway passing a blue lorry in the middle lane at about 1:21 pm".

 

So if you want me to recognise you tell me what car you drive, what shoes you wear, if you have a ring on a finger, have a tatto, and I will find you every time, just don't send me a photo.

[Mannify]

Sorry, Lancslad, I probably shouldn't, but I do find it kinda cool that your prosopagnosia even extends to picking out your own son.

[Linnet]

I also recognise people from their hairstyles as I've no idea what anyones face looks like unless they're stood in front of me. Because of this I'm better at recognising women than men as most men seem to have the same hairstyles. I work at a firm of accountants and can't recognise most of my male colleagues as they all look the same with their short hair and dark suits. I don't worry too much about not recognising people's faces unless I've arranged to meet someone somewhere then I get myself into a state of panic because I don't know how I'll find them. Fortunately, if I stand around looking last they usually find me.

[darkshine]

Sorry, Lancslad, I probably shouldn't, but I do find it kinda cool that your prosopagnosia even extends to picking out your own son.

 

That's something I asked someone once and they never answered me, I said but can you pick out your own kids? And got no reply lol

 

I guess like everything there are varying degrees of this.

 

The example of the train station is something that I've had happen with both friends and loved ones - but I'm still uncertain how much of this stuff is actual face blindness and how much is due to processes due to external stimuli, and stress, anxiety, other things within my mind, and I also think that when there's a mass of people its a hell of a lot worse for me than when a place is empty with just the one person I am waiting for - because when a place is busy a person can do as LancsLad says and they can literally be right in front of me before I figure out who it is - but if the station was empty I'd see and recognise them sooner, but it is a process.

 

1. Male or female?

2. Right height? Build? Size?

3. How they move - are they moving in a way I recognise?

4. What clothes are they wearing? (assuming I know what someone will wear and clothes/hair are important factors in me recognising people)

5. Are they looking at me as though they know me? Or looking around like they are looking for someone?

6. If all the boxes are ticked I start to recognise who a person is.

 

But that is only for people I know really really well - so like 3 people. And I know that its easier if they are the only person in the street, building, station etc. Especially if I am there to meet/pick someone up because logic dictates that the odds are higher that the lone person there is likely to be the one I'm after, but I still have to think it through. So I think external stimuli is a factor too cuz if a place is noisy its harder, if its busy its a nightmare, if its dark or too bright etc....

 

I also think that because I tend to not spend that much time looking at people's faces that it is a factor.

 

But how many of you recognise your children, partners, family, friends when they are in your home with you?

 

Do you walk out the room come back and have to go "woah, who the hell are you?" or not?

[LancsLad]

But how many of you recognise your children, partners, family, friends when they are in your home with you?

 

Do you walk out the room come back and have to go "woah, who the hell are you?" or not?

 

I was just about to say I am not that bad but then realised. When my eight year old invites his friends around and there are four of them sat there all playing Skylanders or mario cart on the wii, I do have to have a good second look. I have not thrown the wrong kid out yet but you never know.

 

I agree with your systematic approach Darkshine. When I was a teacher it was far more complex than that. Because I would include their work in it and how they behaved because they all had school uniform which was pretty similar, the kids thought I knew them really well and in a way I did because I had to make a big effort. In large secondary schools office staff would come to me and say this was handed in whose coat is it and I would often know, because it was one of the things i would track the kids with. At the time I didn't know I had a condition about face blindness I just new that is how things worked for me.

 

If anyone else with the condition wants a good tip always go for really tall or short partners, I went for a really short one. This is good advice because it stops you from kissing the wrong person at Christmas parties when you are a bit drunk and getting a slap in the face!

[LancsLad]

Whilst I can laugh about this now and I really can, as a child it was a real issue.

 

My grandparents lived in Northern Ireland and I can remeber being taken to the arrival lounge at Liverpool airport as a young child and being told when they come through the door make sure you run up to them and give them a big hug to show them that you love them.

 

It was an impossible request for a 5 or 6 year old. And my parents were very anoyed when I ran half way and just stood there confused not knowing what to do, I didn't perform to script. I still have to look at pictures of my nan before picking her up and would struggle to this day. Fortunatly she knows this and will wave and shout my name, she could have a stick with a name plaque on that would help.

 

In a similar way at school I struggled my best mate was a kid called 'Smithy' and I reckon a lot of that was because he had to wear modified boots with callipers on the outside of his legs and so was an easy spot in the playground.

 

I can remeber shoping as a kid with my dad in a supermarket which was a novelty they had just arrived. He had forgoten something and he told me to go to the usual checkout with the person we always went to. He came back with some bacon in his hand and I was unloading the trolly and he said why are you not two isles down because that is the right one. Personally all the checkout assistants looked the same so I had gone to number 3 because that was the one we nearly always used and had taken an educated guess.

 

It is one of those things which can be a right pain in the ###### when no one else knows and you don't know how to tell people because it seems so stupid.

[darkshine]

I was just about to say I am not that bad but then realised. When my eight year old invites his friends around and there are four of them sat there all playing Skylanders or mario cart on the wii, I do have to have a good second look. I have not thrown the wrong kid out yet but you never know.

 

Part of my question did allow for having guests

 

 

I agree with your systematic approach Darkshine. When I was a teacher it was far more complex than that. Because I would include their work in it and how they behaved because they all had school uniform which was pretty similar, the kids thought I knew them really well and in a way I did because I had to make a big effort. In large secondary schools office staff would come to me and say this was handed in whose coat is it and I would often know, because it was one of the things i would track the kids with. At the time I didn't know I had a condition about face blindness I just new that is how things worked for me.

 

As I see it this stuff explains a fair amount of why I get absolutely knackered in social situations as well, and that's without even accounting for other types of anxiety or stress!!

 

Whilst I can laugh about this now and I really can, as a child it was a real issue.

 

My grandparents lived in Northern Ireland and I can remeber being taken to the arrival lounge at Liverpool airport as a young child and being told when they come through the door make sure you run up to them and give them a big hug to show them that you love them.

 

It was an impossible request for a 5 or 6 year old. And my parents were very anoyed when I ran half way and just stood there confused not knowing what to do, I didn't perform to script. I still have to look at pictures of my nan before picking her up and would struggle to this day. Fortunatly she knows this and will wave and shout my name, she could have a stick with a name plaque on that would help.

 

As a kid I've ran up to the wrong person and called them dad before and then stood there thinking "wait a minute you aint my dad" lol

 

It causes some interesting scenarios!!

[Mannify]

I pick my kids out easily enough, although they're very blond which makes it a more efficient process. Lancslad, I have a tall husband, 6ft1, who is either bald or wearing a hat. So these are the things that help me hone in, but I imagine everyone refines the search in that way in a crowd. I've never really considered how much slower the process would be if I had to go on facial features alone.

 

Thing is, I don't notice what people are wearing much, or their hairstyles, although I do with close friends and family, so I don't even use those as cues, really. With dog-walkers, I go by their dogs (hence the difficulty when someone changes their dog).

 

For most people I reach a tipping point at which I do reliably recognise them, but it's a slow process, and people sometimes can't be bothered with me way before I get to that point. One of the things that helps me reach tipping point with a person, in fact, is having offended them. And when I think about what it is I recognise about them, is it their face? Hmmm, I think I rely on other stuff first.

 

Like Darkshine, there were instances as a kid when I hung around a random lady assuming her to be my mum, but I think that's coz I was lttle and grown-ups are big.

[Mannify]

Actually, baldness and wearing a hat are not mutually exclusive states, are they?

[amberzak]

I am training to be a teacher, and I have been told I need to work on remembering names. It's so hard.

[Mannify]

I'm hopeless at names, too! Hey, amberzak, check out how your one word association thread worked out

[Sa Skimrande]

I am training to be a teacher, and I have been told I need to work on remembering names. It's so hard.

 

Try it this way, look for prominent features of those you have to remember, be that visual or other and assign descriptions you can easily remember.

 

I do this by remembering all those I should know by the above and assigning comical characters or characters from popular entertainment, and it was at one time I used to remember my GP by calling him Gerry Adams because he had a dark beard and yes he was Irish and I didn't always see eye to eye with him, and my friends one has; the tank commander, because he has that gazing into a gale look, also ex public school and a bit of a Tim, and the other, Professor Yaffle, from Bagpuss because he calls him self a scientist and is a bit arrogant and wooden with it, but he is twitchy like a bird.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Sa Skimrande

[Mannify]

A little incident today illustrates the point quite well, and made me smile afterwards. The Tesco delivery was scheduled for between 1 and 3 today. There's an adorable Tesco delivery man who comes quite regularly and has a real raport with our dog - she loves him. Today he came two hours early because he had a gap in his schedule, and came on the off-chance that I'd be in and that it'd be convenient. Because he was two hours early and I wasn't expecting him, I opened the door with a vacant 'can I help you?' look on my face. He looked bemused and said, 'It's Tesco', and at that moment our dog ran to greet him in the way she does with him and he simultaneously turned so that I could see the Tesco moniker on his bright yellow coat; and I realised how daft I'd been. Thankfully he was lovely enough not to be offended .

[Noskcaj86]

I find it hard too, its embarrassing for me! Today I did it with my sons teacher who id only seen a couple of times but I had parents evening with her yesterday afternoon, but today after school i didnt recognise her at all! She came over to talk to me and i just assumed she was someone who helped in the school. I only recognised her when she mentioned the parents evening and said shed spoken to me yesterday :/ so embarrassing!

[trekster]

This does sound like faceblindness to me. i find if ive got other things on my mind then i dont notice a friend in a crowd easily. My university mentor that i haven't seen in ages bumped into my today it was awkward partly because i have been avoiding contacting her. Did i miss her face because i was thinking about how overloading the changes to my journey were? Or is this a milder form of faceblindness? i do recognise family members so unsure.

[watergirl]

Only just tuned into this thread.......it explains so much for me......up until I was diagnosed I assumed everyone else also had issues recognising people. I have had so many embarrassing moments with this problem, and agree with most of what has been said above...........in one of my previous jobs I used to recognise customers by their cars, clothes and boats (I worked in a marina). I have a very good ear for voices though.....I was in a pub garden one day a while ago and overheard a voice behind me and thought it was someone I hadn't seen for a number of years.....when i got up to leave I had a look but was disappointed to find it wasn't theperson I thought it was.....until he called my name! Even though i was expecting to see a specific person, I still didn't recognise him, and i'm told that he hasn't changed all that much.

I also had problems recognising my own children at school pick up......uniform is a real problem, they all look the same to me.....and more recently I used to collect my friend's son...............I used to stand in the same place each night and let him find me!

[Nesf]

I am training to be a teacher, and I have been told I need to work on remembering names. It's so hard.

I used to be a teacher and this was a BIG problem! When I was a teenager my best friend had her hair cut and the next day at school she said hi to me and I didn't recognise her. Now if it happens I deal with it with humor and make a joke about having Alzheimer's.

[SallyAspie]

Seems pretty common among those of us on the spectrum. Mine is no secret although I think I do a reasonable job of covering it up.

[robert7111a]

I wonder if this is due to memory issues. I am terrible with remembering names - even with those I work with on an ad-hoc basis. But yes as somebody pointed out, I can "forget" a person out of context - i.e. a work person in normal clothes on the High Street or a mother/child whom I have seen in my clinic

 

Is this due to poor memory, poor recall or simply AS?

[watergirl]

Or is it simply a case of being less interested in people than the NT pop. are? ...........I can recognise a particular class of dinghy from very little visual info usually because it is something I'm really interested in....but not rcognise someone who lives nearby that I may have seen quite a few times. i think it has something to do with the way we connect maybe?

[Nesf]

I think there's a lot of truth in that, watergirl, we don't tend to look at people's faces much or for a long time, I for one feel uncomfortable and look away, I don't study faces.

[robert7111a]

Or is it simply a case of being less interested in people than the NT pop. are? ...........I can recognise a particular class of dinghy from very little visual info usually because it is something I'm really interested in....but not rcognise someone who lives nearby that I may have seen quite a few times. i think it has something to do with the way we connect maybe?

 

Not true for me. I take a lot of interest in people as my job is very people-oriented. But yes, I can identify most trains/locomotives but this doesn't mean I connect with them more. I'm glad I work with people as it just brings out my weaknesses which I want to address

[watergirl]

Had a very good, but embarrassing, demo of this today.........in ASDA (yes, complete with radio ASDA......AAAAGH) ... a woman with bright pink and black hair was stood next to me as I was choosing from the deli......and I thought to myself "how many women are doing this, the woman next door has hair like that"......a few moments later she called her little boy by name............I instantly recognised the voice ...and the childs name.......... .........she must have thought I was really rude..........unless she didn't recognise me of course, lol.