MMR

[pingu]

Hi everyone.

Me and the hubby are discussing K's impending MMR booster. He feels that the theory on 'the link' is a risk and is unsure if to let him have it done, i on the other hand feel the link if there is one is small and the way k is is the way he is meant to be, and the risk of him having complication from measles far outweith the jab.

The G.P is on my back, as he should have had both his pre-school booster and his MMR by now. The pre school booster i thought he had already had at 5 but apparently not !!. So now we are having kittens on how best to approach the subject, and if we decide to go ahead how to make it less traumatic for kieran, who already has a great dislike of the doctors surgery (and thats on a good day)

Any advice gratefully recieved as always.

shaz

x

[baddad]

Hi pingu...

I'll stick my neck out here and say that this is something no one can guide you on - you've just got to weigh up the propaganda from BOTH sides of the debate and decide which one you think sounds less convincing... that varies from parent to parent, depending on their 'gut' response and external factors that influence it (i.e. if you know a couple of parents who are totally convinced that their children's ASD 'emerged' as a result of MMR you're far more likely to worry than if you've only read anecdotal evidence...)

Whatever way you go, remember you are acting in your childs best interests based on currently available data. At the end of the day there is no more you can do...

 

Very best

BD <'>

[elainem]

I can only share our experience with our 5 year old twin boys on of whom is dx ASD (high functioning). Both boys had the MMR as babies and I do not think that there was any link between this and my ds ASD. However I did not give them the booster as was very worried that would cause a deterioration. I still don't know if that was the right decision and I feel angry that as parents we are in this position with so much uncertainty around this vaccine. Sorry I know that's not much help but just wanted you to know you're not on your own having to make this decision. You can only do your best. Elainex

[lindy-lou]

i decided to postpone india having the MMR because of my concerns about her being on the spectrum,my health visitor supported me in that decision,i cant afford to have the single jabs and i wont be getting her immunised now as she is needle phobic and im still frightened about the uncertainty of the combined jab.

[sue1957]

My youngest 2 aren't vaccinated at all, because my eldest went down within severe ear infections within hours of his first 2 jabs, and I didn't buy the "coincidence" theory.

 

I've managed to avoid the surgery (apart from checkups before starting school) for 7 years now (we've had nothing but minor illness I can deal with myself ) but it wasn't pleasant being pressured by the GP and HV when they were younger. If I was going through the same thing again, to be able to make an informed choice I would first be asking for a full ingredients list of the vaccine. If I was OK with that I would want a full medical done, including adrenal function. Only then would I even consider it. If they weren't prepared to do that, then for us the risks outweigh the benefits.

Edited January 31, 2006 by sue1957

[LizK]

I don't think MMR had any impact on my 4 yr olds ASD as he was showing signs way before he was ever vaccinated. I am happy for my youngest son to be done but am waiting until is over 18mths for my peace of mind. I've not had DS1s preschool MMR booster yet, have put that off. Logical part of my brain says go for it but there is a nagging doubt in case it worsens his ASD symptoms. I don't believe MMR causes ASD but I don't think there is any research about whether MMR can worsen ASD. Also the booster is just a catch up for the 10% of kids who don't make a full response to the original jab so he might not need it anyway. He needs a routine blood test soon so hope we can get his antibody levels checked. If they are low I will probably get it done as I am just as concerned about teh effects of him picking up one of the MMR diseases

 

It's a difficult decision as there are consequences of whatever you choose. 1001 people can tell you their experiences but at the end of the day you have to make a decision you feel comfortable with. Getting accurate info is hard, most of the pro- or anti-MMR websites I've looked at seem biased in one way or another. I've heard that the Natural Hisotry Museum (sorry not got link) website has a good section on MMR summarising the work available which is supposed to be less biased

 

HTH

 

Liz x

[darky]

<'> i think this is a tough decision you have to make and like others have said i think you have to decide for yourself.

but i will give you my view on things. when my eldest was 5 days old he was admitted into hospital for poor feeding and jaundice. there was a baby there that was 9 months old and he had whooping cough. i seen what that little boy had to go through with the coughing fits and machinary bleeping every five mins with the nurses running round trying to keep him stable. that alone was enough for me to decide my kids, all of them would have every vaccination going, come hell or high water.

i do have 2 children with asd's, but i dont blame that on the mmr. i knew i had problems as a kid and got to see my medical records and there is evidence that i am an un dx aspie or asd. knowing more about asd's i know and understand my dad is a definate aspie too. so i know there is a genetic disposition to it.

i love all my kids dearly, i wouldnt want to hurt them at all. but i have seen a young baby fighting for his life because of a disease that could have been prevented. yes, my youngest two kids are quirky, me and my dad too, but i wouldnt have it any other way. given the choice of whether to vaccinate or not again, i would 100 times rather than take the risk, whether the risk is a small one or not, of my kids contracting a deadly illness.

 

its a tough decision, but one only you can make. i very much believe people should look at the FACTS and decide what to do. good luck <'>

[Flora]

My two eldest both had the MMR and then pre school booster. My youngest son had the vaccination at 18 months, but I didn't allow him to have the booster.

 

Everyone has a different experience. For my own kids, both of the boys who have ASD's had onset of symptoms within days/weeks of having the MMR, they both regressed. This is the reason why I didn't allow my youngest to have the booster.

 

It's a difficult decision to make, but only YOU can make it. Others can share their opinions and experience, but you must be guided by your own thoughts on this.

 

Good luck with the decision, I know how hard it is to go through this dilemma.

 

Lauren

[pingu]

<'> Thankyou for your advice. All of which is sensible and much appriciated. i am trying to contact the health visitor at the moment to discuss things with him, im hoping he will be a little more understanding than the doctors receptionist was yesterday..

i had only gone in to pick up kierans prescription and i got a lecture on Vaccinations. the receptionist said, "oh theres a note here to 'remind' you that kieran has missed 2 vaccinations, would you like me to book him in with the nurse for later this evening??"

I explained to her i was unsure if to go ahead because of the risks, and also he has a hatered for the place at the best of times, on top of that i wouldnt be able to pick him up from school and take him straight to the docs even if i was ok with it, because it would upset his routine.

She looked at me and said "why?"

To which i replied "because he has Aspergers Syndrome, and i cant just throw things on him at the last minute".

To which she replied "well i would 'tell' him that he needs them and just bring him, imagine if he was unvacinnated and then caught one of the illnesses"

I walked out without another word !!

 

Anyway. thanks again. You are my sanity

Shaz

x

[clintess]

i personally do not think there is a link.i had a bad pregnancy where ds had an kidney infection whilst carrying him and also i had plecenta previa.ds didnt have the mmr till he was four and by that time he very clearly had his problems.all four of my other children have had the mmr and none of them have asd,just one other has adhd which is very clearly from his dad.but it is your decision.i personally wouldnt have it done till they are four and just before they start school,you can request this to be done as the child is a little older and the body can cope with much more.Measles is a terrible thing to have,i had it when i was ten and mumps with boys can make them infertile in later years so i really wouldnt avoid it but it is your choice and im sure you will make the correct one.

[Lynden]

Both my NT daughter and autistic son had the MMR. Logan definitely had obvious problems before he had his MMR though so I dont believe its in any way to blame for his autism. I did give Leona her pre-school boosters last week and must admit I was very nervous about it. I dont know however if I'll give Logan his preschool boosters when the time comes as I would worry it would cause him to regress.

 

I have a while to decide though.

 

Lynne

[melly]

Hi

 

It is possible to have a blood test done to check a childs immunity after the first MMR. As such if their immunity levels are high, they do not need to have the booster, if they are low then you will be advised by whoever does the test to re immunise.

 

Interestingly my consultants opinion is that 'if' there is an asd - mmr link, it would be due to the measels part of the vaccine, but that link could not be ruled out as a seperate vacc. either.

 

Some GP's will do the test if you push them, some areas you have to go privately. I believe the 'JABS' websinte would give you details of private clinics.

 

Melly

[melly]

Mind you, on re reading your initial topic, he may not appreciate going for a blood test!

[reuby2]

Hi Pingu,

I found out my son has ASD in November but for years even before the ASD thing was followed, I Swear he was never the same after having his MMR as a baby.He screamed himself to sleep that night, writhing in my arms and since that time he was always poorly with ear infections etc. I know that kids get infections all the time etc but I noticed his health deteriorate from that jab and that was before the controvesy started.

 

But I know loads of kids who have had it and are fine.What I dislike is the health visitors, doctors (not all) pushing for us to get this jab and pushing the worst case scenario into our face if they were to get measles etc. It's the guilt thing. It very much reminds me of when we went for our mortgage and they were trying to push us to have an endownment and weren't very happy when we refused. however when I have explained my decision to our paediatrician she said no problem he's had one jab so he will have some immunity anyway.

 

I think each person has to make an informed decision. I agree with what Baddad said about making the best decision you can with the information available at this time. It's all any of us can do!!

 

Hope everything becomes clearer to you both. <'> <'>

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi Pingu

 

I have debated this to death as the MMR did impact on my 15 year olds health very severley one week after the injection.

 

The professionals that I debated with said some children cannot tolerate the MMR now they say, they are best to have if broken down and administered as 3 separate injections - then you won't be a statistic like my son and many as you have read above.

 

To not vaccinate is very risky for your child, but to break it into 3 is much safer, and some doctors will spit the dummy to do this but they will, if you request it. Hold your ground it is your right, for the health of your child. Hope this helps

 

Regards

Hailey <'>

Edited January 31, 2006 by hallyscomet

[call me jaded]

There was a survey a couple of years ago (I think it was in the BMJ, but don't hold me to that) which said that a high percentage of those taking their children for single jabs had some medical training (i.e. were doctors or nurses).

 

Hailey in the UK it isn't possible to get separate jabs unless you pay.

[Guest hallyscomet]

Jaded,

 

If I could turn back time to what happened to my boy I would pay whatever it costs, there are so many stories that prove alot of kids don't have the Phsiological makeup to tolerate the full MMR

 

Truly, they have proof, and they cant do a think about it. They cant sue or stand up to the doctors and pharmaceutical giants they are in bed together they say over here- all they worry about is making millions.

 

Hailey

[jen]

you can not get separate injection on the nhs. Even if you pay for them there can still be problems. A doctor was disciplined for givening a child mmr (in fact he injected water) they found out when the child got measles and had a blood test, and found no protection in the childs body.

 

I have given both my children the MMR I have seen the consequences on not having MMR teenagers die and left deaf and sterile.

 

There is some more medical research out on MMR

 

Jen

[lil_me]

After a friends cousin died from measles, and then her daughter nearly died because of it, with my sons I decided it was better to be safe than sorry. I just thought what would I rather, possible Autism (was a lot in the press when both were little) or the possiblity they could die or be seriously injured from measles. I don't think MMR caused my sons Autism, or regret the decission I made, especially after another friends daughter took seriously ill with measles last year, a local breakout blamed on the lack of children being vaccinated.

 

It is a difficult decision to make as a parent, both my sons had theirs late as it took me a while to decide.

[call me jaded]

If anybody has been following what's happenning in the US with the repeated attempts to slip vaccine limitation clauses into unrelated legislation, it would make a cynic out of the most trusting soul.

[smallworld]

I've being following what's happening in the US (well trying to !)

My son still hasn't had the DPT booster, our GP brought up this fact and I said a firm 'no, thanks'

his reply was 'that's fine'

 

wac

 

sorry, have veered off topic again,

what I need to add is that my son has had both MMR jabs, no bowel problems after the first was probably what swayed me.

My mum telling me about my own bad reaction to DPT is what put me off the booster, along with the thimersol worry.

Edited January 31, 2006 by waccoe

[pingu]

Hi Everyone, Thanks again to everyone for your experiences and opinions. <'>

 

I Had a call back from the health visitor earlier, It wasn't my usual one, But she put me at ease straight away, I explained the situation, and told her i wanted to do what was best for kieran, Etc. She asked if i remembered what he was like after the last lot of jabs, I said I remember him having an ear infection but i couldnt remember anything else as there was a lot going on at that time. He hadnt been diagnosed with AS, but his 'traits' were there. But according to his notes, I went to the docs a week after the vacination (which was when he had the ear infection) And then i went again a week later and i quote.. 'due to kieran becoming unresponsive' How could i have forgotton? Once she had jogged my memory it made sense because that was where it all began, (the road to diagnosis) i just didnt realise it. Looking back i suppose we just saw the change of class at school as the trigger for him becomming withdrawn, because at that time the MMR hadnt been an issue because I had so little knowledge of Autism, Im not saying the MMR caused it, because He already had the traits, Nursery school thought he was unique, and i had to stay with him for 18 months as he hid in a corner if i left.. Moving to the reception class was where he started to stand out His teacher noticed straightaway.

 

So anyway back to the topic. The health visitor said that he would still have immunity (from the other 1's) so i wasnt to worry about him catching anything as he is still immunised. She advised me to see the doctor alone to discuss it in more detail, but from what she said i got the impression that i wouldnt be hung drawn and quartered if i turned the jab down (on his behalf)..

 

Im sorry this has turned into a bit of a novel, but i just wanted to thank you for your kindness, and for making me feel better, You are my only link to the outside world (well apart from my daily trot to school) and i appriciate all the help and advice, its also nice knowing we are not alone and that others have had the same dilema's.

Thanks again

Shaz

x

 

 

 

 

 

Now where did i leave my alcohol. ?????????

[jen]

I thing the official finger is either 40% or 60% receive protection from the first MMR. This is the reason the second booster was introduced so the % that had not sero converted would. I think for safety is would be a good idea to ask for a blood test to check him immunity. Then if he has adequate protection you do not have to consider a second test.

 

Regards

 

Jem

[Lucas]

My opinion in short:

 

"The MMR vaccine is safe." = Not a lie because those saying it think it's true, but it is possibly an untruth.

 

"The MMR vaccines does not cause autism."(why does everyone in the public eye spell it without a capital A?) = True, this would have to be a feat so miraculous that it could be used as solid evidence that intelligent design is real.

[jb1964]

My daughters 12 and has only recently been diagnosed.

 

She had the MMR when she was 15mths old (at that time there wasn't as much press as there is now). It would be very difficult for me to say whether this did affect her.

 

Because she'd had lots of problems since birth - i.e chronic constipation and feeding difficulties - which we thought could have been the cause of other problems she had - i.e. sleeping (lack of)/crying (constant), constant ear/chest infections - preferring own company and very nervy of strangers and of course a lot of the milestones they watch out for occur after this age.

 

However, when she was to have her booster before starting school which was around 4 (I think) I discussed my worries with our local health visitor as the press were hot on this topic. She advised me 'off the record' not to have this done - she said that if you had a healthy child that was run of the mill with no problems at all then she would advise it - but under my daughters circumstances who had a low immune system and health problems etc, she didn't think it wise! She also advised the same to a friend of mine who had a son the same age who was suffering with hyperactivity (recently thought now to have tourettes).

 

Obviously neither of them had it - and whenever she's been ill in hospital the question always gets asked has she had all her jabs and I say no - when they ask why and I say the HV advised not to - they get very annoyed and practically want the name of who could say such a thing.

 

My other little girl is 3yrs old (yesterday!) and hasn't had the MMR and it's a choice I haven't taken lightly and still feel nervous about.

 

GP's and Paed's also put an enormous amount of pressure on parents to have these injections - and as much as we want to protect them sometimes the choices we make aren't always the right ones - but we can only be guided by the professionals.

 

I never questioned the HV advice - just took it that she was kind of giving me some inside info - although now I wonder whether this was just her personal stance on it.....

Edited February 9, 2006 by jb1964

[Jill]

Whilst I don't think the MMR vaccine caused my son's Autism, as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on whether Autistic children can "cope" with the vaccine as well as NT kids.

 

I had measles as a child & was fine. I've been near several people with mumps & never got it. I guess I'm hoping I've passed on a strong immunity to my son. Therefore, all things considered, I won't be taking him for the booster - my personal choice - I just hope I don't live to regret it.

 

Neither decision is easy is it? We just have to do what we think is best for our child.

 

Sending <'> whilst you're going thru this mate.

 

Wish we could all have a crystal ball.............

[jen]

Some parents decide to wait until there child is at school before having the MMR. They know the child is interacting, there are no concerns or worries.Obviously the medical profession would not recommend this.

 

Jen

[florrie]

The MMR jab does not cause autism, but it appears to contribute to it if the child has a weakened immune system, and can cause overload, that the body can't deal with. It is complex to explain in detail.

 

I saw a documentary where children completely regressed from being normal to losing speech etc after having mmr, that seems like enough evidence to me. I never ever stop hearing strories where children had bad reaction. My son had a bad reaction to mmr, his leg swelled, but he didn't regress, but he did go into a coma two week later with a mysterious illness no one knew what it was, i don't even know whether i think it is linked to his autism, but I know if I knew what I know now, about what it does, i wuldn't take the risk but everyone has to make there own decision on this. I certainly don't trust government propaganda on this, of course they will try to disprove it, because of the cost implications and repercussions that would follow. Look at the lies they told over the iraq war about weapons of mass destruction, as an excuse to invade iraq and there weren't any.

[florrie]

I forgot to add that i also have symptoms of asd, and hyperlexia, and I didn't have mmr. there is obviously a clear genetic trait, as my father had symptoms too but I have found a very clean diet does help significantly but it doesn't cure it still have all the symptoms, they just cause me slightly less distress and thats worth it, so i think overload of stuff the body can't deal with does make things worse.

[UltraMum]

It's a difficult decision - especially when the newspapers raise the issue again and again - the Telegraph had a story only y'day.

http://tinyurl.com/a7mhv

 

It is a case of every parent weighing up the conflicting advice from all quarters and having to make the decision for their own individual circumstances.

[kirstie]

\This is a good thread, IYKWIM!!!

I am a few months off my baby being 'invited' along to the surgery for his MMR

I had my other two had theirs, eldest is fine, middle son has AS and had traits long before he had his jags. But what i will say is he reacted very badly to his booster.(pre-dx) His behaviours went from extreme to extreme hell. It was a nightmare. I am thinking i'll have Aidens done but singularly. i mean it says something when the Blairs took their own son to France for his single jags............

[DaisyFulkirk]

The responses on this thread are the most mature, calm and considered ones I've ever seen about the MMR/ASD link, or lack thereof.

 

I am the only member of my generation of my family with autism, we have all grown up in the same environment with the same genepool and the same vaccinations. There is at least one family member in each generation for whom the 'case could be made' for an ASD.

 

In short, I don't think the MMR had anything to do with my autism, and having known some children and young people affected by things like rubella and measles encephalopathy (spelling?) I would have to conclude that even if there was a link suspected - and I truly do not think there is - I would prefer the small possibility of increasing a child's 'susceptibility' to autism than to increase the chances of more generations of deaf-blind rubella babies with damaged hearts and kidneys or encephalopathy survivors profoundly disabled with cerebral palsy and/or profound learning disabilities resulting from seriously damaged brains. Autism doesn't seem to be avoidable, but those things are.

 

Just my opinion, as always.

[pingu]

Hi There

 

Just my opinion, as always.

 

And as always much appriciated <'>

 

thanks again for your views, I called in to the doctors to arrange his pre school booster yesterday, and was asked if he would be wanting the MMR at the same time. i declined, ....... she went to "offer her advice" but i explained firmly that i had discussed this matter with the h/v already. My next question was to ask her if the doctor could do the jabs, as K trusts this man and wont go at all if its a 'stranger' doing it... She made a fuss about how the doctors no longer do the jabs as its the nurses job she advised me to ring back on wednesday and she will have by then spoke to the doctor about it

 

Anyway, i hope you guys are all holding up, my life is becomming ever more stressfull as my teenage son reminds me of every flaw in his life (which is all my fault by the way)

Thats a whole new post !

 

take care all

shaz