*urgent* informal exclusion

[nvapid]

A friend at the same school has had his son informally excluded several times in the last few weeks.

He delivers child to school -> an hour later he gets a call from the school to come take his son out for the rest of the day.

The school knows the boy has been refered for diagnosis of ADHD. In fact the class teacher has tld the parent to ask his docotr to put his child in ritalin - and if the docotr wont do it to change doctors.

 

I need to know as much as possible about the rules of informal exlusion asap and anyone's experience with it, please. Worse yet, the HT just told the BoG that she does not and never has used any form of informal exclusion.

[Zemanski]

Informal exclusion is always illegal even with parental consent

 

but a child can be sent home for medical reasons with parental consent - Com was sent home last week 'in distress' and then excluded formally

 

you need the following documents:

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/b...usion/guidance/

 

part 2 is the most relevant

 

the SEN code of practice from the DFES

 

http://publications.teachernet.gov.uk/defa...DfES+0581+2001&

 

and the disability rights commission code of practice for schools from

 

http://www.drc.org.uk

 

there's a pinned topic on unlawful exclusion at the top of the Education threads

 

hope they help

Edited February 8, 2006 by Zemanski

[oracle]

Zemanski is correct they are breaking the law IPSEA would be able to confirm this should you need to do so. My group Autism-in-Mind are campaigning against professionals demanding that a child be put on ritalin just to make their lives easier. If it's what the parent wants then fine but there are many cons as well as pros to ritalin.

 

Carole

[annie]

Ask your friend to keep notes of every informal exclusion ie. WHO excluded, reason why etc.

 

We were told to request that either the school formally exclude Alex, or he stays there.

 

I would suggest writing a letter to the Chair of Govenors, Head and LEA about the exclusions, making sure your friend includes the comment made by the teacher about medication. We were told a few years back by Alex's primary school that they didn't want him in the school without Ritalin. When I told Alex's Paed, he said to tell the school, if they have a problem with it, to call him direct.........it wasn't mentioned again .

[phasmid]

Whoa there!

 

Who the hell does this teacher think they are to insist a child is medicated? As for the 'change your Doctor if they won't medicate routine' - I'm very sorry but I reckon I know what most GPs would say to a request of this nature so I doubt that would work anyway. Not only is that a flipping cheek I'd say they are on very thin ice. In fact I KNOW they are! The school are acting illegaly.

 

As it stands they have no medical reason to exclude him - he has no dx. There are strict rules about exclusion on medical grounds and I have NEVER seen ADHD mentioned on any that I have read yet. Even if he a dx had they couldn't exclude him for having ADHD as that would be illegal anyway!

 

Clearly the school ARE using informal exclusion in this case - whether the head see's them as such or not - that is exactly what she is permitting. All the advice given so far is spot on. The school cannot cope, and instead of trying to find stratergies to cope they are failing in their duty to provide your friends child with an education. I wonder what the SEN/Inclusion team at the LEA would have to say about this? In fact, tell your friend to ask them.

[nvapid]

thanks Zemanski! the friend has asked me to help write the letter - so i was able to quote part of the relevant document. (why do they make them so hard to find?)

 

the next question is, when you write a complaint - what should his demands be? what action should he demand from the school?

[nvapid]

Who the hell does this teacher think they are to insist a child is medicated?

 

this is the same teacher who when she had my son wrote in his end of year report that "B is a very selfish boy."

[phasmid]

Really!

 

Bear in mind I was working (still am) at the school in question when one of my children got a very bad report. We know the amount of effort he had put in and how much time we had spent talking to his teacher trying to find ways of boosting his self-esteem and attainment. So, in the box marked 'parental comments' we inserted the following:

 

The amount of effort put into XXXXXX's work this year is, WE believe a reflection of the amount of effort put into him by his teacher.

 

A small chat with the head followed. It was not suggested we withdraw the remark (we would have refused). But it was pointed out that the comment would be noted.

 

Paperwork to and from school can be used in more than one way!

[Zemanski]

didn't mean to suggest that ADHD is a medical reason to send a child home - Com's distress would, as would a rash but not a disability!

 

sorry

 

sounds like this teacher needs a ###### good kick up the backside and some ASD/ADHD training

 

 

Z

[phasmid]

You need to look on teachernet (address escapes me but google will find it) and search for 'Improving behaviour and attendence Oct 2004 and have a read from start to finish. Lot's in there to quote at them...lot's and lot's and lot's...

 

Zem...didn't mean to imply that you thought that (I know you better!) - sorry if that's the imperssion my response gave. What I meant to say, but could have phrased better was, if that is the excuse the school are using they are firmly in the WRONG!!!

[Zemanski]

my phrasing wasn't good either Phas, it needed to be made clear

 

you might find some ideas of things to ask for in the ASD good practice guidance that might be applicable to ADHD - like time out when he is becoming agitated or withdrawal from class to preempt challenging behaviour before it gets to the point where the school needs to be looking at disciplinary measures

 

can't seem to find the link though - you should be able to find it on the DFES site or teachernet, I looked for one on ADHD but couldn't find anything

 

Z

[lil_me]

I would take my child home if that was the attitude I got, and not send him back either

 

Hope your friend gets this sorted Spot on advice from the experts in here so I won't get in the way.

[darky]

its not a teachers place to decide if medication is needed or not! that makes me so cross!! in my opinion medication can be very useful, but thats not for a teacher to decide!! these informal exclusions really get my goat. schools think they can get away with them because parents just go along with it and dont know any better. besides, its so much easier to send a child home than to deal with a problem isnt it!! grrrrr!!

 

i will say though, if you dont mind, but what was the child sent home for?? fair enough they havnt done it right with the paper work, but if the child is violent or aggressive towards teachers or other pupils, then under health and saftey all schools, even special schools have a right to exclude regardless of diagnosis or poss diagnosis, but it should be done properly!!!other than that exclusion should be LAST resort!!

[phasmid]

i will say though, if you dont mind, but what was the child sent home for?? fair enough they havnt done it right with the paper work, but if the child is violent or aggressive towards teachers or other pupils, then under health and saftey all schools, even special schools have a right to exclude regardless of diagnosis or poss diagnosis, but it should be done properly!!!

 

Quite correct too Darky.

 

What bothers me in this instance though is the startling regularity of the timing of the phone calls - sounds like 1 lesson into the day every day or the start of the second lesson or perhaps assembly. There would appear to be a regular trigger to the events that cause the exclusion - school need to pinpoint it and work on it.

[Zemanski]

They can't send a kid home for health and safety reasons if the child may have a disability (I presume it is under investigation) and the incidents could have been managed by making reasonable adjustments - like being able to withdraw him from a situation before it gets out of control. If those sort of steps have been taken and the school still cannot manage then they need to call in the LEA and get some proper advice/support put in place and possibly ask for a statement, if the child hasn't already got one, before excluding. In ADHD, as with ASDs, things like lashing out are part and parcel of the disability and action has to be taken to manage that, if the school can't, even with a statement and appropriate strategies in place then they should be investigating an alternative placement, not excluding.

 

Zemanski

[darky]

yes i agree phas whole heartedly!! i mean alarm bells should be ringing now and they should be looking at triggers, prevention etc. sounds to me like its easier to send him home than to deal with it!!

had this with my sisters school time and time again. i went into the school on one of the days they were sending my nephew home and asked them if this was official. the deputy heads argument was this:

the head teacher wasnt there so she couldnt decide if it was official or not, thats the heads job. she was simply sending my nephew home for health and saftey issues and assured me she had the right to do this, without the relevant paper work. is there a loop hole somewhere?

unfortunately what happened next was worse!! they started making the exclusions formal and my nephew was then sent home for days or a week at a time!!! i havnt got the words for that!! i will say now though, they have finaly seemed to have got their act together!

[Zemanski]

at least with a formal exclusion you have the right of appeal

 

an acting head is legally responsible in the head's place - the deputy head will normally be in this position

[jen]

You friend needs to put in writing all the dates she has been asked to collect her son and the reasons why. State what time you actually picked up your son. You need to say in the letter that sending the child home is not dealing with the problem and only delaying everything therefore what are the school and governors going to put in place the next time it happens.

You can refuse to collect your child if they call for you to collect him. The exclusion always starts from 9am the next day because once you take your child to school the school has loco parentis and are responsible for that child until the end of the school day.

We had exactly the same problem with our old headmistress and you need to know your rights and stand up for your rights.

 

You do need to contact the school governors so they know what is happening. If the school can not cope with your child then they need to get expert advice from the outside agencies not use the parent to do the work they can not do.

 

 

Regards

 

Jen

[phasmid]

Sorry Jen but a period of exclusion is one half a school day (hence morning AND afternoon registration). A lunchtime exclusion is also one period of exclusion. The 'excluded' period therefore starts from the beginning of the next possible school period or lunchtime. See: Improving Behaviour and Attendence (Oct 2004)

 

All the information regarding dates and times SHOULD be recorded in the schools log which you sign your child in and out in every time they are either late or taken out early - this document is a legal requirement.

[Zemanski]

that's an interesting point, Phas, I don't think they asked us to sign Com out last week but they usually do, I just didn't think about it at the time.

 

will check that one!

 

Zemanski

[phasmid]

That sort of thing annoys me zemanski. If a school want to go down the exclusion route they ought to make sure they are on firm ground and they get the whole process right from start to finish. Let's face it they will use every and any little thing they can to support their case, so we can do the same! The procedures are there for a reason, they are supposed to act as a safeguard for all concerned. It they want to do it - do it right!

[littlenemo]

you said it

 

Z

[invent 10 things b4 breakfast]

My son was informally excluded at luchtimes because he could not sit and eat his lunch properly. I was telephoned to come and get him a couple of times and then he was refused to stay at all.

 

When I spoke to PP they told me that the school couldn't exclude your child like this unless it was in writing and that if they did it again I could refuse to collect him. Now as a parent you would feel awful knowing you've left your child there but I guess that's the card they play on you, guilt!

[nvapid]

sorry took so long to reply!

 

this was for a friend who's son was sent home because he reufsed to go into the classroom when he arrived. That's it. The freind needed help to write a letter to the CoG and we needed the specific area of law it covered. The freind may not send the letter - he is so pissed off and worn down by the head that he is giving up.

 

This HT we have is just too dreadful for words... I can't help but get so completely depressed by all the battles we loose. One boy in B's class was forced into a managed move. But his teacher told the class that he was expelled...