antibiotics causing Autism

[jen]

Lots of people I know say there child had recurrent ear infections as a baby and consequently needed antibiotics. A lot of these babies or children were eventually diagnosed with ASD or Aspergers.

 

An american doctor has printed a research paper on Augmentin causing ASD.

 

See http://news.autismlina.com/archive/000227.html

 

Jen

[baddad]

Hi Jen -

not questioning the paper, but i notice the link has a banner for a 'remedy' for AS - that's enough to put me off - sorry...

L&P

BD

[jen]

the site also contains a list of teaching tips for children and adults. Like any list you use some of it and ignore other parts but I will send a list to my childs teacher and LSA. Any thing that reminds teachers how to teach our children is helpful

 

Jen

[lil_me]

My son didn't have any AntiBiotics until he was about 4 years old and his problems were apparent from being a baby, I still have a view that when people are saying their childs Autistic behaviours are caused by a medical or enviromental thing, then are they Autistic ? or are they a child who has had a reaction which presents itself as Autism ?

Edited February 10, 2006 by lil_me

[Bullet]

I'm sorry, but that's a bit like saying "bananas cause ASD" or "walking in the rain causes ASD". I'm grumbling purely at the link, because I don't think it's as simple as giving or not giving antibiotics. I strongly believe that Ds1 has an ASD because he has inherited my suspected Aspergers and DH also has some traits, though not enough to put him on the spectrum we don't think. There are accounts of people from centuries ago who they now think had ASD - did they have antibiotics?

[DaisyProudfoot]

Ah sorry - not with you on this - I have five kids and being kids they've had anti-biotics many times - I only have one with ASD - and I would say he's remarkably healthy and doesn't use antibiotics much. He did have hearing problems though!

 

Daisy

[lil_me]

Someone who thinks like me then Bullet. My son's Autistic traits which I was TBH blind to and had no idea about were apparent from being very very young. Pre MMR. For a child to suddenly change as some parents describe I question are they being diagnosed incorrectly. Fragile X for example presents ASD traits, but that doesn't mean a child has Autism. Are these reactions claimed not literally that, a reaction ? I am not doubting these parents knowing their children, but I just can't get my head round it.

Edited February 10, 2006 by lil_me

[jen]

I am not saying I agree with the link but we all see things through different eyes. Personally my childs ASD was not made worse by vaccinationsor antibiotics.

 

Jen

[Flora]

I wonder if these perceived links are merely circumstantial. As Daisy pointed out, many kids have regular courses of antibiotics but don't have autism. Circumstantially both my boys had glue ear and regular courses of antibiotics from babyhood but then so did my daughter who is NT. I don't even think it's helpful to find a cause. The fact is that some kids are autistic; the cause is purely accademic.

 

But then that's just my opinion which probably isn't worth anything to anyone but me

 

Lauren

[lil_me]

I suppose a lot of people would likes someone to blame, I know I was tempted, and blamed myself for a long time aswell.

 

Jen - Sorry I wasn't questioning your views but the link, sorry if it appeared that way

 

As for the advertising banners, it is a few/sponsored site, and those are placed by a search engine as sponsor adverts for the site. Hence why if I was running a site on ASD I would ensure it was AD free

Edited February 10, 2006 by lil_me

[jen]

Some of the issues put forward with MMR says the vaccine cause a problem in the immune system and there is a reaction.causing Autism. If a vaccine can do this, then it is logical that other drugs could also do the same thing. Pesticides on our food could cause the same reaction.

 

Jen

[jen]

I suppose it could go on and on and we still will not get the answer

[lil_me]

Yes they say it causes Autism, my question is does it ? Or does it cause a reaction with similar traits to Autism ?

 

I doubt we'll ever know. But if I (not that I will) had another child, they would be vaccinated, but I know people who have lost family because of measles, I would rather my kids were alive and Autistic ? if these people are correct, than killed or harmed by measles. I am very strict with anitbiotics anyway, as I don't want them building a resistance and will only accept them if completely necessary. Rather they were able to use them to fight off a serious infection if they ever get one than the common cold/tummy upsets some GPs will prescribe them for.

Edited February 10, 2006 by lil_me

[Flora]

The thing is if it was found that any or all of these things could cause autism, how on earth are they all to be identified and then avoided? It's the same as carcinogenic substances; even if we could identify them all for sure, avoiding them all would be almost impossible. We couldn't rely on them being illiminated or banned, considering that we've known for sure for years that smoking causes lung cancer but that hasn't been banned.

 

I would rather see all this research and effort going in to providing therapy and support. It's as simple as changing the question, rather than 'why?' it should be 'what can be done to make things better?'.

 

I know it's not as simplistic as that, but I do get fed up when the focus is on what caused it, it's a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted.

 

Lauren

[CarerQuie]

I think there is less tendency to prescribe antibiotics willy nilly these days precisely because children can build up a resistance.

 

The fact is that life is a risk and in every situation,we have to weigh up our choices.Having had 4 of my 6 children have glue ear,we've probably had our fair share of antibiotics.I doubt if i'd decline them in situations where they can be useful.

 

There may or may not be a correlation between Augmentin and ASD but I think I'd want to see rather more research and evidence before giving the theory much credence.xx

Edited February 10, 2006 by CarerQuie

[call me jaded]

Thanks jen for posting this. I hope you are not put off by the negative responses.

 

FWIW I think piece of research is useful for those who have made the gut/brain connection with the person they know with autism. What seems to be happening is that part of the DNA is mutating (trigger unknown) linking to a malfunction in some of the processes which rely on DNA. Certainly methyllation pathways seem to depend on this and large parts of the immune system. It would not surprise me in the least if type 2 diabetes was implicated. If they can find the cause(s) of the mutation or at least work out the process, then something like stem-cell therapy could actually reverse the mutation. The Manev's (never worked out whether they were husband and wife or what) in Chicago (University of Illinois) have a complex hypothesis on certain antibiotics and RNA http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/1/5 but there are horrendous ethical barriers to prevent proving it.

 

I would not let them prescribe my ASD son amoxicillan - it would go in the bin before I gave it to him. Luckily he hasn't needed anything for several years.

[baddad]

Hi again Jen -

 

sorry, had another look at my post made last night and realised that it was a bit too vague!! Sorry, I was VERY tired, if that counts as an excuse...

 

FWIW I DO firmly believe that environmental/modern living factors like food additives, pollution, antibiotics and vaccinations are ALL implicated in the rise of autism (which is a real rise - not just a 'better diagnostics' anomally). The point i meant to make - and made very badly - is that sites that contain this type of information alongside of ridiculous claims about 'cures' actually undermine the impact of the good stuff, which is why i avoid them like the plague!

 

If i gave any offence, i apologise, and i hope THIS post is a bit clearer in its intent!!

 

L&P

BD

[bid]

Well, my dad is 76 (born way before antibiotics) and has a dx of 'mild Autism'...

 

I just think research like this misses the point entirely.

 

Enough said, as I can feel a soap box approaching!

 

Bid

[palgem]

if we knew the cause we could probably find the cure ? all speculation aside they have what they have deal with it ? if u beleive everything reported you would not do anything and probably die. why worry about the unexplainable fight for something that can be done and help the chidren get what they need love and understanding and a proper education ? why worry more than u need to life is enough and we live it everyday

sorry if it sounds harsh but thats the way life is a journey of roundabouts its your choice what exit u take who knows if the choice is right or not but u have to live with it

bye for now palgem

[DaisyProudfoot]

But if I (not that I will) had another child, they would be vaccinated, but I know people who have lost family because of measles, I would rather my kids were alive and Autistic ? if these people are correct, than killed or harmed by measles.

 

 

I would certainly agree there .... my NT daughter contracted whooping cough when she was just 6 weeks old - before she was due her vaccination - and she nearly died. This I would never repeat. All my kids have been vaccinated - the whole blooming lot - and only one has AS. Was it vaccine-related, I don't think so because from being a tiny baby he was scream the neighbourhood down following a jab.

 

Daisy

[oracle]

My eldest had every vaccine and still got whooping cough. Matthew was not given the whooping caught part because David had had convulsions and there was a huge history of convulsions in the family (his Dad's) which did not appear to matter when Rob was vaccinated but did by the time David was vaccinated That just tells you how opinions change like the weather. Because David also had convulsions Matthew was considered to be high risk and was also not given the whooping cough part of the jab. Complicated init?

 

I think that some people will have a weak link for some things. Vague I know but I think it is true. While some people will take a course of antibiotics which will cure their illness others, like myself, will end up in A&E after two tablets. This has happened to me with EVERY antibiotic that I has been given to me orally since the age of 8 years olds. All three of mine are allergic to some of the antibiotics but not 'all' of them like me.

 

Environmental factors are playing a part in a great many things and not just autism. Just look at fertility and how the environment is playing its part in SOME people there.

 

It's a huge spectrum itself and we will probably never have any real answers because then someone would have to be accountable.

 

The needs of the many as the Spock said

 

Carole

Edited February 11, 2006 by carole

[Tally]

I had a lot of ear infections as a baby, and was given Augmentin, and now have AS. I had heard about a possible connection before. I understand from my parents that the signs of autism were there from a very young age, but I do wonder if the antibiotics had any effect. I will never know for sure, but I do know that I will never take this antibiotic again.

 

I am allergic to antibiotics anyway. The allergy symptoms were always blamed on the ear infection, but then we moved house and our new GP recognised these symptoms as an allergic reaction. So there's no risk of me being given Augmentin anyway now.

[Malika]

Hi to all

 

H has a dx of ASD but had hardly had any antibiotic and no MMR what he had was candida (thrust??) when he was a baby I read something about it and the connection with Autism because of the gut/ brain connection

what could be possible is that antibiotics creating an excess in candida may increase somehow the incidence of autism, but in another hand children with fragile X who may have autistic symptoms tend to develope lot of ear and/or sinus infections who may require treatment with antibiotic in this case the damaged chromosome is the cause of lack of production of a certain protein resulting in defiscient brain connection so learning difficulties and autism.

So far there are no easy answers in spite of the amazing discoveries in science.

 

Malika.

[LizC]

Hi My AS son never really had antibiotics as a baby, did have inhalors for his asthma but really nothign to do with that, he showed some of his first problems earlier then this. my older child was always on antibis for infections and she is fine! also his AS problems started well before the mmr injection. my grandad had AS and he never had the mmr injection!

 

Liz

[jen]

It might be interesting to have a pole to see if immediate family members with ASD have allergies

No offense taken by anyone I like to make people think

Jen

[researchboffin]

Lets say yes it could.

It could without lots of complicated research articles because antibiotics can and do "kill off" good flora in the gut. The gut is where the processing takes place that results in the transmission of stuff to the brain which is where the ASD arises.

So if the good flora is "killed off" the bad flora can flourish and as a result the transmissions to the brain go wrong then the "overload" of the immune system can occur.

This is only one way that immune system can go into overload so ASDs are caused by a variety of things that give rise to an immune system overload vaccines, allergies, viruses acn all have the same result.

 

Ken

[Hectorshouse]

I think this is really thought provoking, T has glue ear from 6 months to 2 years then had the first set of grommets, during that period he was permanently on amoxycillin for his ear infections, his glue ear returned at age 4 and he had grommets and adenoids removed at age 6, and again during that time was constantly on amoxycillin or tetracyclin (sp?), his As wasn't dx'd until he was nearly 10. He also was a failure to thrive baby from 6 months to 2 years (due to the glue ear possibly) but also from the point he had his MMR, he also turned a very nice yellow colour (or tanned) but wasn't jaundiced during this time, which may have been to do with the introduction of gluten and dairy products ... again the gut/brain theory. Many things may have heightened T's autistic traits, but I am convinced he was AS from birth, he never really cried, would flinch when touched, slept with his eyes open (still does sometimes now very unnerving sometimes), didn't interact like his big brov did as a baby etc etc ...

 

Given the choices again I don't know what I would do, I would've definitely reconsidered the vaccinations had I known then what I know now, but as for the antibiotics I don't know, when you have a screaming and feverish baby awake all night because of the pain of his ear infections and purfurations, I would've opted for anything that would've made him well, but obviously not at any cost .... difficult decisions and an interesting debate.

 

HHxx

[darky]

i think this is very interesting!! both my younger 2 dx with asd's had problems with pnuemonia and chest infections when they were young and both had several courses of antibiotics and intravenous ones too. the other thing they had quite a lot of courses of is prednisilone steriods. both of my children also had courses of maintenance doses of antibiotics to help keep infections at bay. i have often wondered if it could be related! my daughter who is more affected was on iv antibiotics and oral antibiotics and steriods at the same time when she was 8 months old. the infection was severe and she needed loads of oxygen to keep her stable. the top lobes of her lungs collapsed under the strain of infection and she was very ill. i wondered if the cocktail of drugs she was on may have caused some of the problems.

[on the edge]

Reading through all the links it is mind boggling to see the similarities in all our cases!! The bowel problems, allergies and intolerances seem to be so common! You would only have to have a family history of mild coeliac or leaky gut to find that any pollutants (including gluten and yeast which has been around for a while) could cause symptoms of AS (if this were the cause) to go back through families. Not to mention other such medical conditions as hyperthyroidism or adrenal gland dysfunction which cause very similar symptoms to AS.

I cannot relate to anyone who is able to accept autism without wondering the cause!!!! For me, without a cause, I cannot find a possible cure to bring my son out of this place and back to me. How do I know he does an as yet undiagnosed medical condition that could be cured But I am early days with all this and am still re-adjusting to my son and my shattered pre-conceived expectations of his life ahead. In the meantime I will probably read of every possablity that comes along...just in case........and antibiotics as a cause seems very plausible to me

[jen]

on the edge,

 

Take it a day at a time with your son, my child makes me laugh every day. I told him yesterday that I would not want him withour autism as he is wonderful (at other times it is extremly stressful but that is partly due to the way the LEA treat our children).

 

No one can predict the future for normal kids or ASD so enjoy it as it comes

 

Jen