Horizon (documentary)

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

I know this is a bit early to put this up, but I thought you'd be interested as most of us have

read about Temple Grandin somewhere or another.

 

Thursday 8th June 9.00pm BBC2

 

This is the write up in my TV mag:

 

Horizon:

The woman who thinks like a cow:

Profile of autistic professor Dr Temple Grandin, who is renowned worldwide for her

remarkable ability to talk to animals and understand their behaviour in ways no one else can.

(hope it's okay to put that write up on here ).

 

Brook

[Gardenia]

Dh heard her speaking on Radio 5 during the night while he was on night shift. It was sometime last year but he said it was fascinating.

 

If I remember right I'm sure he said that she now has her own business, and gives the ranchmen/farmers advice and strategies on handling the cattle.

 

Thanks Brook

Looking forward to watching it

[rainbow queen]

thanks for that i will write date down -cheers x

[elaine1]

ooh fascinating, will have to get the biccies out for that one lol <'>

[MumTee]

Ooooh - writing it in my diary now - thanks x

[justamom]

Thanks for that Viper - could you please remind us again because i would hate to forget to watch it...

[Kathryn]

Thanks Brook

 

I find her books fascinating and so does L. I'm sure we'll be in our seats for that.

 

K x

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

here's a NAS link that has more info.

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=161&a=10164

 

Brook

[littlenemo]

An interesting review from the Radio Times:

The Woman Who Thinks Like a Cow

 

" Horizon returns with an unusually heartwarming film about US animal welfare expert Temple Grandin. She was born autistic (and she's now a highly respected expert on the condition), something she argues gives her a unique feeling for how animals see the world. I've lost count of how many films I've seen about autism, but this one has an edge, largely because Grandin manages to help us imagine what it would feel like to live in autism's alternative reality - always looking for danger, transfixed by details, experiencing sensations with piercing intensity. "Fear is my main emotion," she says. "An awful lot of things I do, I'm just avoiding problems."

 

My theory, for what it's worth, is that part of the appeal of these autism docs is that many of us like to think we can spot little bits of autistic-type thinking in ourselves (unless that's just me). But here the story goes beyond that to the fascinating story of how Grandin revolutionised the business of slaughter (or "meat solutions", as one contributor's caption has it) by looking at it from the cows' point of view. Like most Horizon films, you could comfortably cut ten minutes without it suffering, but as a human insight into an intriguing branch of science, this is hard to beat."

[Lucas]

I just don't like the titles Horizon use when they feature an Autistic person: "The Man With The Incredible Brain"(as if not all brains are incredible)"The Real Rainman" when they did Kim Peek, not sure if that was Horizon though now and now we have "The Woman Who Thinks Like A Cow".

 

In the first two programmes, they were reluctant to even mention Autism even though its their unusual Autistic abilities being looked at. I'm hoping tonights episode won't be shying away from it.

[Kathryn]

Just bumping this up - it's on in a couple of hours.

 

K x

[Flora]

Lucas I hate the title of this present documentary too, it almost dehumanises her and I find that very upsetting.

 

I hope the content is better than the title.

 

Lauren

Edited June 8, 2006 by Lauren

[Kathryn]

To some extent I agree with you, Lauren and Lucas, but the title might at least excite the curiosity of the casual viewer.

 

K x

[lil_me]

So far so good, the insight into the way she things I am finding amazing. I've got a few friends to watch it, hoping will increase their understanding. I'm a bit confused with some of the cow things but see where she is coming from, but the rest, the way she experiences things I find very interesting,

Edited June 8, 2006 by lil_me

[bid]

I found it very powerful...but will people listen to the voice of autism?? I sometimes feel we are

 

Most powerful bit for me was when she said 'fear is my main emotion'. This has huge resonance for me.

 

Bid

Edited June 8, 2006 by bid

[zaman]

I was really impressed by her, and how far she has got in her career. The people in the meat convention, or whatever it was, were in awe of her. One guy said something like in a sector dominated by men, she is the king. Wow.

[gladysmay]

didnt like the title for this either, thank god for Rimland.(dispelling the myth of refrigerator mothers!)

[baddad]

I found it very powerful...but will people listen to the voice of autism?? I sometimes feel we are

 

Most powerful bit for me was when she said 'fear is my main emotion'. This has huge resonance for me.

Bid

 

 

Bid, if it's any consolation you terrify me too!!

 

Lucas/Lauren -

 

I'm recording at the mo to watch later... I agree the title is sensationalist, but I think that's true of whatever subject programmes like this focus on, because it pulls in the punters. The thing about someone like TG is that she's interesting, absorbing, fascinating, and PART of that arises from abilities that show positive aspects to autism. I hope that shines through in the programme, and that the programme itself emphasises that whether 'savant' skills are evident or not, the individual isn't/shouldn't be devalued...

I'll let you know my thoughts tomorrow...

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited June 8, 2006 by bid

[Kathryn]

This is one of the best documentaries on autism I've yet seen - (and I've watched a wide range in the last two years!). I was afraid it would just present TG as a quirky individual with an interesting life story but I was glad there were some good points raised about autism in general, for example the stress caused by sensory overload and how autistic behaviour is a way of escaping this, and the fact that autism isn't caused by bad parenting. I hope lots of people were watching.

 

I really liked her - the fact that she was quite happy to lie down in a field of cows and not see anything strange or funny about it. She gives the impression of being totally at ease with herself, despite having has difficult childhood years. Gives me hope for L, really.

 

K x

[Flora]

That was absolutely fab... Her whole personality shone through and I enjoyed every minute of it.

 

As for the refrigirator mother thing.... well I'm still waiting for my penis Thank goodness that particular bit of mumbo jumbo has been just about put to bed.

 

bid... It was exactly the same for me... when she said that her main emotion was fear... I relate to that so much, and the same for William...

 

I wish I'd taped it though. There are so many people who probably missed it who should watch it.

 

baddad.... even after watching the programme I'm still not very comfortable with the title but as the content was fabtastic it doesn't really matter.

 

Lauren

Edited June 8, 2006 by Lauren

[bid]

I agree about the title.

 

I had to leave the room during the Bettelheim bit as it upset me so much

 

Bid

[BusyLizzie100]

Just ditto everything Lauren says, really! The bit about fear being the main emotion, and anxiety, just struck so many chords with me.

 

I think it was a brilliant introduction to autism and hopefully will get people interested in digging deeper. Wish I'd viideoed it so I could take it into school and just generally give it to everyone!

 

Plus - I really liked Temple. She seemed very much at ease with herself. What a fabulous woman.

[bid]

Another quote I scribbled down was her description of being in a supermarket as like being 'inside a speaker at a rock concert' for our kids (and TBH for me too!!).

 

Bid

[Lila-Zen]

I really enjoyed it too. I wondered where it was going at one point when they started talking about Bettleheim

 

Definitely one of the better autism documentaries I've seen.

[justamom]

Another quote I scribbled down was her description of being in a supermarket as like being 'inside a speaker at a rock concert' for our kids (and TBH for me too!!).

 

Bid

 

 

I thought that, that was a wonderful discribtion Bid, only now do i understand how my son feels in the high street...

[lotty]

I dont know whether anyone feels the same as me, (i am on the spectrum I know) it may be this that makes me feel like this, but I always sit and watch these things and i want to see what is autistic about these people, even Temple seem completly normal to me??? and she is meant to be very autistic It makes me question where i am on the spectrum, am I more autistic than i think I am or to nt people, does she seem normal. the jackson family seemed even more normal than my family, i went to see a talk by luke and jackie and i thought i might see them differently to the documentry. is it me or is it just how it seems to everyone??

Edited June 8, 2006 by lotty

[lotty]

I did like her though and it was more interesting than i thought it would be, i wish i had recorded it aswell.

Edited June 8, 2006 by lotty

[Lucas]

Lotty, the whole concept of the spectrum is controversial. Most Autistic adults(that I know) believe there is no such thing- you are either Autistic or you aren't, there is no objective measure of how Autistic a person is.

 

Some people would call me high-functioning, but they have only seen me in certain contexts, places and enviroments. There are others who would say I'm extremely low-functioning but who have not read anything I've written down. But functioning doesn't determine how Autistic a person is and neither does quirkiness.

 

People often get confused because they see children who can't talk and can have some shocking behaviours, but you simply can't compare such children to any Autistic adult.

[Guest flutter]

i thought was good,

i do see what you are sayin Lucas, i have to say, id dont ever use any word but autistic when telling peeps about my Dd and they all go" well i cant see it!" and that is the battle: to get the world to see that it does not involve "stereotypes" but is that not the eternal battle?

Unitl i was told about autism i have to say i did nto get the small bits, but i do now!! and that is what is needed, for the big bad world to see it as we do, and accept it

Some people would call me high-functioning, but they have only seen me in certain contexts, places and enviroments. There are others who would say I'm extremely low-functioning but who have not read anything I've written down. But functioning doesn't determine how Autistic a person is and neither does quirkiness.

that has made sence to me with Dd,

right to work, but be friday,

[Zemanski]

I used to do the lying in a field of cows thing when I was young, but I always got scared before they did - all that slobber was just too much to take

 

Com watched with me and kept commenting that he doesn't think like her - in pictures etc

 

When I went to see Donna Williams she made the point that she doesn't think like TG either but that like TG her senses are her primary motivator (she does art rather than cows) and she has actually devoted quite a long section of her latest book to a comparison of herself and Temple to show how different autistic people can be so I found it fascinating to see what she was talking about. It was interesting that Com picked up on the same thing without knowing anything about DW.

 

TG is such a strong character, I found her almost scary in her determination but absolutely fascinating.

 

Zemanski

[curra]

It was really very good! M said to me, "Mum you must be autistic too because you understand animals" and I said to him that it certainly runs in the family. I was very glad that the refrigerator mother myth was clearly and definitely exposed as false. M was very impressed with TG's comparison of the brain to a huge business in which communications bewteen the different departments is not so good.

A pity I didn't record it... is worth watching again.

 

Curra

[CarerQuie]

Perhaps it will be repeated.xx

[DaisyProudfoot]

I thought it was superb and for those of you who didn't catch here's a Horizon precee of the programme

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes...on/temple.shtml

 

Coming back to the refridgerator mother idea it makes me wonder if that's because these mothers probably have some form of ASD themselves. Hubbs says it explains a lot about me finding it difficult to hug people or show any empathy with them.

[Lucas]

That's possibly the case: for professionals that are not familiar with Autism or only work with one area, they just simply can not accurately observe what Autistics are doing at all. Kanner's beliefs were shaped by what he knew about Schizophrenia, which he associated with Autism, but he rejected stupid ideas more and more as he was exposed to more Autistic people.

 

Autistic parents are often in a very delicate position in regards to their children as sensory issues may be interpreted as lack of affection.

[Zemanski]

the refrigerator mother theory was debunked years ago, it is wrong and damaging. Parents and carers can neglect and abuse children and this can produce symptoms which can look like ASCs but they are not. I would say that for many of our children being subjected, even at a very early age, to touchy-feeliness would probably make them withdraw further; we respond to our children as they need us to respond to them but if we don't hug them all the time that's probably more to do with them not liking it than the parent having an ASC.

 

I did find the link between the RM theory and the response of people to the deprivation in prisoner of war camps intriguing though. There are definitely similarities between the behaviours of some autistic children and the prisoners but I think he made the mistake of thinking that the root cause was the same - remember that freudian psychology was very much the accepted theory then and this puts almost all the responsibility for mental health and developmental problems on family interactions.

I personally think that the root cause for the behaviours in autism is not related to family relationships specifically otherwise we would not have families with both NT and ASC kids raised by the same people but that the different sensory relationships with the world experienced by ASC children are responsible for most of the reactions of autistic kids.

The expectations of parents and carers may exacerbate the problems if they do not understand the child's differences, we know that the attitudes of people outside the family can be very damaging to our children because of the lack of awareness and tolerance, but this might suggest that where parents have an ASC they are more likely to understand and support their children in the right way than NT parents might.

 

it is mostly conjecture but it is definitely not the mother's fault!

 

Zemanski

[baddad]

Wow! what a treat!

A great documentary about intensive animal husbandry, a great documentary about autism and a great documentary about a fascinating individual at the top of her career in a male dominated environment - and ALL in the same film!!

Probably the best documentary on autism I've seen.

One thing that really 'hit' me was the juxtaposition between Temples' outward appearance (for many NT's I guess she'd just appear slightly 'eccentric') and the very real problems she has faced throughout her life. For people who knew little of autism this must have been a real eye-opener...

Particular highlight for me was 'the big squeeze', which I'm sure would have seemed quite 'shocking' (is that the right word?) to some. Then we see a 'respectable' establishment figure explaining the VERY REAL psychological benefits that such a machine would produce in anyone - autistic or otherwise. Brilliant! I wonder if a comparison could be made with the effects of the very trendy 'isolation tanks' that are so popular within certain sectors of NT society?

Z - Coms comment about not seeing in pictures... From memory, Temple thinks there are several distinct 'types' of autistic memory... One is very visual, like hers, while others experience the world aurally or ibn a very tactile way, or through written associations etc. I think in her book she 'identifies' 3 distinct subgroups, but as with everything in autism there's that 'sliding scale' where each sort of perception overlaps and interacts...

 

I'm sure someone more knowledgable will explain that better, but that's the gist (i think!)...

 

L&P

 

BD

[Suze]

my boy and I watched this together........he was very absorbed by it.

Going back to the autistic/concentration camp similarities..........I also found this intriuging.Temple describing how she feels at times to be in a permanent state of fear/anxiety?..........just like the prisoner would , the coping/sympton of this I guess must have been what Bettlehiem made the connection to autism with.I shrank back with fear when the refridgerator mother epsiode was mentioned,my boy did say I was nothing like a refridgerator .

Also I think it gave a positive message to those who fear for their childs future, Temple is an inspiration.

[DaisyProudfoot]

I thought refridgerator mother meant your kids only loved you if there was enough food in the fridge!

 

Sorry, coming off topic there, but yes she is one fantastic woman - do you think she was named Temple after Shirley?

Edited June 9, 2006 by DaisyProudfoot

[lorryw]

I just cant bring myself to buy into the whole celebrity autistic thing. It is such a huge leap from autism as I know it. I couldnt bring myself to attend a local support group meeting with Donna Williams. The fact that she is married, drives and has an agent just blows me away.

The young people I know who are described as autistic have huge problems with communication, most are non verbal and will need constant 24 hour care for the rest of their lives.

[Flora]

lorry with some of the famous autistic people I agree with you (mentioning no names) but Temple is different in that she is famous for something OTHER than being autistic.

 

Most of the others are famous for their writing or talks on what it's like to live with autism, all of them extremely useful in their own way.

 

Lauren

Edited June 9, 2006 by Lauren