No more statements from April

[BusyLizzie100]

I had a meeting with the SEN officer at the LEA this morning to find out why they had decided to turn him down for Statutory Assessment and the issue of no more Statements from next April came up.

 

Can anyone tell me what this is likely to mean for our kids? I appreciate that DS2's Statement will remain in place, and my understanding is that instead of new Statements then the funding will all go straight to the school. But how, essentially, is this different and how will it work in practice?

 

Obviously there will be no legal document, the Statement, to which everyone has to adhere to, but in DS1's case, where school says nothing's wrong and we say oh yes there is (backed up by professional reports), isn't it open to all sorts of misinterpretations/problems?

 

Basically, unless my son shows signs of his horrendous behaviour at home leaking into the school environment, or unless he shows signs of a total breakdown, there is no way he will be able to get the kind of support a Statement can provide and definitely not before April.

 

How does this work???

 

Lizzie

[bramblebrae]

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/lewishamcomplaint.htm

 

Hi I've been googling this and came up with a complaint ipsea are dealing with just now, link above. Basically the borough produced a leaflet telling parents statements were no longer needed as the school would get the money direct to use where the saw the need as school is the best place to see it (errr yeah right!!!) but IPSEA have complained as no change to the statement procedures have happened at all and they have had worried parents phoning them about there childrens provision. IPSEA sound well hacked off and rightly so I can't believe this borough tried to basically pull a fast one on their most vulnerable children, I think someone should be prosecuted for it I really do.

 

I don't know for sure if this is what the SEN officer was talking about but I can't find anything else about statements changing in England. This complaint is dated July 2006 so fairly current - it didn't mention in complaint or quotes from leaflet about when they were saying the changes took place....could be the SEN guy is misinformed directly from this! I'd check directly with IPSEA if I was in England, if it's came from the same misinformation it could be good for their case to see how this rumour has spread and the damage it may do.

 

take care

Lorraine

[mossgrove]

there has beem much discussion of avoiding thre expense and compication of tyhe statementing process by delegating SEN provision dorectly to schools, the Giovernment is keen on this and, wprringly' the NAS haven't come out in outright opposition.

 

There are a number of problems woth this approach as any parent will be able to tell you:

 

Many schools simply don't recognise that a child has SEN and are often unqualified to assess those needs and determine the appropriate provision

 

Many heads will discourage children with SEN from attending their schools so thay can spend the SEN money on something else.

 

The provision is not legally enforceable

 

There is no formal mechanism for ensuring good practice.

 

As far as I am aware the legal position hasn't changed. But pressure is being put on LEAs to reduce the use of statements within the existing framework. Anecdotally there is evidence that LEA's are seeking to introduce 'blanket' policies such as not issuing statements for children with Aspergers as they can be provided for within a schools SEN budget.(Not true BTW) Your LEA may be seeking to introduce such a policy. Such policies are probably illegal, but legal challenges take time.

 

 

Simon

[Flora]

This happened in my area last year. The LEA are avoiding assessing for new statements and have handed over 80% of the SEN budget to the schools, mainly the secondary schools. They will continue to do statements but only for the very 'needy' bottom 2%. (that's got to be subjective though hasn't it?)

 

Bill starts secondary school next week. He has a full time LSA and a modified time table, but doesn't have a statement. I am happy with the level of support they are offering, and have had lots of meetings with the SEN team who seem a very clued up enthusiastic bunch.

 

However, what happens when the SEN team are not so good or clued up? Or what happens if the school decide to pull the rug and you have no legal document to fall back on? Also what happens with a primary school child when the budget is no different from it ever was?

 

Ben is still at primary school and I'm still struggling to get his needs recognised and dealt with appropriately.

 

I had a meeting in August with two LEA officers who clarified the situation. In theory it's an excellent idea, but in practice there are many pit falls, even more so than the statementing system.

 

I'm afraid it's no different than usual, in that the parents who have the desire and/or wherewithall to fight the system may get something eventually. You've really got to know your onions in our LEA or you get nothing at all.

 

Flora

[PinkSapphireAngel]

There is no formal mechanism for ensuring good practice.

 

As far as I am aware the legal position hasn't changed. But pressure is being put on LEAs to reduce the use of statements within the existing framework. Anecdotally there is evidence that LEA's are seeking to introduce 'blanket' policies such as not issuing statements for children with Aspergers as they can be provided for within a schools SEN budget.(Not true BTW) Your LEA may be seeking to introduce such a policy. Such policies are probably illegal, but legal challenges take time.

Simon

 

 

This is eaxactly what my LEA are doing and when I took them to SENDIST for refusal to assess in March this year I quoted about their "blanket policies" and it clearly got to the panel as they were saying that they stick directly to the code of practice so the LEA and their blanket policies were not a concern.

 

I am taking them back there again in October for refusal to issue a statement.

 

So do we know if this April rule is definate?

[Kathryn]

Simon, you've said it all. The statementing system has many flaws, but at least there are built in safeguards.

 

The law hasn't been rewritten: until it is, the statementing system still exists and LEA's are still required to look at each child's needs individually.

 

I know NAS and IPSEA are very interested at the moment in information about LEA's operating illegal blanket policies, (like only statementing the most needy 2% of children), particularly if this can be supported by documentary evidence.

 

K x

[col]

Pink i think Busy Lizzie, is talking about her LEA, our LEA are already doing it. When i first started, with getting a statement for DD7 back in Jan 03? Was told by the paed that the LEA were going to stop doing them from that April

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I cannot believe our LEA think they can just blatantly do whatever they want and rules do not apply to them

[LizK]

This happened in our LEA over the last year but maybe not as dramatically as your perhaps?

 

Here most of the money for SENs is devolved directly to the school and the school is supposed to use the money to directly support the children with SENs without them needing a statement. Only children needing 15hrs of more help wil get a statement but even then I think the school doesn't actually get much more money, it's jsut that they are then legally obliged to fulfil the terms of the statement.

 

In some ways it can work well if the funding it targetted towards children's needs. When my son stated school he was still being assess so was still on SA+. School funded a LSA for 15 hours a week. It quickly became apparent that he needed fulltime support so the school employed his LSA fulltime. Under the old system they would have struggled to have acted so quickly. School also reassured me that even if he didn't get a statement they would still supply fulltime 1-2-1 from the school budget. At the other end of the scale children with specific difficulties that need say 4 or 5 extra hours a week to help with one area can get their needs met quicker without going through a 6mth statementing process.

 

We are fortunate that the primary school locally is very well resourced. The worry is that schools that are less well resourced will struggle to meet the needs of their pupils. If some children are statemented then the school is more likely to divert funds towards them due to the legal obligation meaning there could be less funds for those children on SA+. Also there is nothing saying what the money has to be spent on. The school could blow the eyars budget on a special needs minibus with no resources for anyone else. The money does not follow the child so if they move school the budget for the new school will not be adjusted until the next year. Some schools are more reluctant to get outside agencies in now as it is expensive. Autistic Outreach will charge the school for their visits unless the child has their involvment on the statement when then it will come from the central SEN budget

 

Lx

[BusyLizzie100]

I didn't realise it wasn't a nationwide thing. I'm talking about Hertfordshire in our case. I'm definitely going to try and get hold of IPSEA. DS1 is definitely going to need a Statement, if not now then later. If this 'no Statement' notion is on the cards from April, the cynic in me says that the LEA could just refuse to assess anyone in the run-up to that time, knowing that pretty soon they won't have to do it all.

 

I'm really worried about the point raised concerning the school having responsibility for recognising and assessing SEN - very few schools are specialists in this way and before DS2 started at school (with Statement), the SENco said to me: 'We are definitely not experts in ASDs so any information you can share with us will be valued'.

 

Well, now I'm sharing the information that DS1 needs assessment and Statement, but their inexperience and lack of expertise totally ###### it up!

 

Sorry, I'm not particularly coherent about all this because I'm so upset that the system is setting my son up for such a big fall. It's heartless.

 

Also, all three of the DSs are kicking off today - is it a change in the weather, or something???

 

Lizzie

[aro]

I find that amazing, having lived in Herts most of my life and taught there too, I thought they were one of the wealthiest councils! Bucks didn't even have teaching resourse libraries etc,

Seems things have changed!!!

A x

[Kathryn]

I sympathise personally with all the views and feelings expressed in this thread. However I'm a bit worried about the turn this topic is taking.

 

With my moderating hat on, can I ask people to avoid explicitly criticising named LEA's on the forum.

 

Thanks

 

Kathryn.

[BusyLizzie100]

Oops, sorry. Didn't think. Won't do it again.

 

Lizzie

[pim]

Hi Lizzie,

 

That is so worrying to hear. I'm in the same LEA as you. I also thought that this is one of the more wealthier LEA's.

 

My ds does have a statement. I know parents, who are trying to get their child a statement for their child, who is just starting school the same school as DS. It is so obvious that he will need it with his condition, but so far they have been turned down. This school does not have the budget to put in any extra help to children, even those with statements. So of a statement says a child is given 10 hours support. The school does not add any more hours. But they really want to help and support children with SEN. They just don't have the money to do it. There is a cynical side of me, which wonders as the playground has and is having so much money spent doing it up. Where does that come from?

 

pim

[aro]

Sorry Kathryn, wasn't meaning to criticise either LEA, just surprised by one, the other may be poorer but I did mean it was a bad LEA. Actually it has to cope with quite a lot of deprived areas and the school I worked at still had a SEN unit attatched, think ithe LEA was doing OK!

 

A x

Edited September 2, 2006 by aro

[dooday24]

we had a meeting about this a couple of months ago and we were told any one who has a statement keeps it but other wise like reece i will have to do it through the school which im not too happy about as u say there is no paperwork baking u up and wat if the schools missuse the money allocated

[Kazzen161]

>>There is a cynical side of me, which wonders as the playground has and is having so much money spent doing it up. Where does that come from?

 

Often funding is ringfenced, so it can only be spent on given things eg: ICT, buildings.

 

You can probably find schools' budgets on your CC web site - they make interesting reading.

 

The law hasn't changed, so if a child needs a statement, they need a statement. However, because schools have more of the SEN money allocated directly to them, the LEA's will be expecting them to provide more help/resources than in the past before requesting a statement. The expectation is that statements will not be necessary as the help once only possible through having a statement will be possible without one (yeah - right!). I can see more cases where the LEA will say: the school has the money to provide that so no statement is needed, and the school saying it doesn't. It will be the child who suffers in the meantime.

 

Karen

[elainem]

our LEA is going this way from next year too. existing statements will be maintained I am told. the scary thing in our area is the way the SEN funding is distributed - the amount schools get is based number of kids on free school meals and mobility. I had to ask what was meant by mobility - it means the number of kids in and out of the school each term/school year. On this criteria our school will get even less than it does now. Really worrying.

 

Elaine

[BusyLizzie100]

Update!

 

I spoke to someone at Parent Partnership who said it was not true that there would be NO Statements from April. It's in the draft stages and she didn't have all the details, but the aim is to put most of the LEA's SEN budget directly into the schools to cut down on all the money spent on paperwork etc, so Statements will be there for those that really need them. ie, the money will go into directly supporting the children. That's fair enough, but the onus is then on the schools to do their 'assessment of SEN' and, let's face it, they're not all experts in that area or in ASDs, are they.

 

But hang on, who's been responsible for giving out Statements to children who 'don't really need them'? Surely that's the LEA? The LEA officer who told me 'no more Statements from April' gave me the example of the parent of a child expected to get Cs at A-levels, who applied for a Statement so he could get As. That's a pretty extreme example! why does she have to express everything as extreme absolutes???????

 

I'm flippin' annoyed with this officer now, as she told me in out meeting that there would categorically be no more Statements. Has she got her facts wrong, or is she trying to pull the wool over my eyes? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! I hate this; it's like some kind of Cold War shenanigans.

 

I don't know what to think now or how to get more information.

 

Lizzie

[brooke]

my sons head teacher also said to me their would be no more statements but i then rang the NAS who were very helpful and explained a bit more. What has been suggested for my son is some funding that goes directly to the school so they can pay a assistant to help him with what he needs. As long as he gets the help i dont mind how. i am lucky that his school has been very helpful and recognised a problem straight away. Other people arent so fortunate.

Im a bit worried though because firstly you dont have a say on what the school could do with the money and also my sons support will be shared as there is another boy in his class with an asd. I just have to hope that this works out but if not i will be trying for a statement and an arc (again)!

[Karen A]

Brooke I would keep a very close eye on what the school are doing.Make sure the IEP is very clear about what is going to be done and how often and monitor regularly to make sure they stick to it.Sorry if I sound a bit negative.Karen

[Kazzen161]

>>I'm flippin' annoyed with this officer now, as she told me in out meeting that there would categorically be no more Statements. Has she got her facts wrong, or is she trying to pull the wool over my eyes?

 

This is probably on a par with the "we don't fund children at X school" - something they want you to believe - but which we delight in disproving!

 

Karen

[dooday24]

I WENT TO A MEETING WITH PARENT PARTNERSHIP AND SHE TOLD US THERE WOULD BE NO MORE STATEMENTS SO WAT IS GOING ON???????????? ONLY CURRENT STATEMENTS WOULD STAY IN PLACE AND THAT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET A STATEMENT 4 REECE

[pingu]

However, what happens when the SEN team are not so good or clued up? Or what happens if the school decide to pull the rug and you have no legal document to fall back on? Also what happens with a primary school child when the budget is no different from it ever was?

 

 

Flora

 

Just my point ..

 

I WENT TO A MEETING WITH PARENT PARTNERSHIP AND SHE TOLD US THERE WOULD BE NO MORE STATEMENTS SO WAT IS GOING ON???????????? ONLY CURRENT STATEMENTS WOULD STAY IN PLACE AND THAT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET A STATEMENT 4 REECE

 

I have been sat here (all alone on the board) for the last 2 hours, trying to sift through all this information on statmenting. It seems with each click of the mouse the law has changed. I desprately need to know (as everyone else does) the correct approach to this tangle of red-tape, cos im going insane thinking about the way our situation spiraled out of control in just 24 hours. The very fact that im sat here at all when everyone else is asleep is proof that im wound up by it all . (i can usually sleep on a washing line).

 

Im doing a fair bit of incoherant babbling here, and i dont want to take over such an important topic with my current dilema, so i will leave it there and post elsewhere. Under the heading of "Why cant people do what they say they are going to do, as they say they are going to do it, when they say they are going to do it for gooooodness sake

 

morning everyone - welcome to another day

shaz

[LKS]

Hello pingu as far as I can make out there is no new law or guidance that is coming in to force regarding the issuing of statements. I'm sure Ipsea would be very interested to hear if there was! We all know that more money is being pumped directly in to schools whoopeedoo. Now (as someone has said on here before) the school is now judge jury and executinor (sp))

[sylvm]

Hello pingu as far as I can make out there is no new law or guidance that is coming in to force regarding the issuing of statements. I'm sure Ipsea would be very interested to hear if there was! We all know that more money is being pumped directly in to schools whoopeedoo. Now (as someone has said on here before) the school is now judge jury and executinor (sp))

 

 

I am also in same LEA as Lizzie. Parenting Partnership have said that statements up to 15 hours will be affected. Above that apparently it will stay the same. In real terms this means that only a very few children will get statements. Earmarked Pupil Funding is also being phased out (ie it won't be renewed). We were recommended to apply for a statment for DD (just starting Year 5) by the Ed Psych earlier this year but there doesn't seem an awful lot of point now.

[Tez]

I am also in same LEA as Lizzie. Parenting Partnership have said that statements up to 15 hours will be affected. Above that apparently it will stay the same. In real terms this means that only a very few children will get statements. Earmarked Pupil Funding is also being phased out (ie it won't be renewed). We were recommended to apply for a statment for DD (just starting Year 5) by the Ed Psych earlier this year but there doesn't seem an awful lot of point now.

 

The Educational Psychologist would have been well aware of the LEA's stance when they recommended you applied for a statement so your child must need the extra support. Chances are that when the assessment is carried out the hours will be in excess of 15 and if not and a statement is not issued appeal to SENDIST. It is not unusual for a child to need more than 15 hours support, even if they are highly intelligent and well behaved.

[BusyLizzie100]

Sylvm, your post has really worried me, as my other son (DS2) currently has a Statement that gives him 12 hours, made up to 15 by the school.

 

I've been trying to get info from Parent Partnership since my meeting with the LEA, but no one knows much. In fact, I understand there has been a big meeting today to put everyone (except us lot!) in the picture.

 

I received a letter last week informing me that they wanted the reports from my son's Statement Review in mid Feb; considering this is usually done at the end of March, I'd already started worrying why his Review had been moved forward.

 

Could they be about to take his Statement away???!!!

[Platefull of Love]

I have now heard about another way that the LEA fund additional help. Its a new system & seems to now be prefered to a statemant for 2 reasons. 1 its alot cheaper ( it costs the LEA about �10,000 to provide each statement, that is just the piece of Paper, not any actual funding for aditional help 0, & 2 The panel meets every month, so funding & support can be put in place quicker.In our area it has only been in from last year (May? , can't remember the exact month ), so about 18 months old now. In my LEA it is called ESAP, short for Enhanced School Action Plus, the LEA has to provide the funding, its not out of the school budget. of course its not gauranteed, if I got it for Dan & moved out of the LEA I am in now we would lose it. So I am giong to try to get him assesed for a statement. I was shocked last week to hear the same as has already been said about the school SEN bvudget being linked to he amount of pupils on free school meals.