Sad and lonely.

[oxgirl]

Got a very sad boy home from school today.

He is in an ASD Unit attached to a mainstream and is the most able there. He goes to a few mainstream lessons, but not many. He hasn't any friends at all, not the one.

There is a girl who he often sits next to in lessons. They don't really get on, in fact they seem to spend a lot of time arguing. She has recently been being quite unkind to him and during several lessons his TA has actually moved Jay away from her. Today he was sitting with her and, according to the TA, she was quite nasty and unfair to Jay. TA actually stood up for him, which is quite rare actually! She suggested that he doesn't sit with her for any more lessons, which is sensible. Trouble is Jay is heartbroken. He keeps saying he hasn't got any other friends, she was his only one and if he can't sit with her he won't have anyone to sit with. Was very depressed and saying how lonely he is, etc.

I just feel so helpless to help him, there's nothing I could really say to make him feel better. The reality is just so stark and obvious to him. Nobody wants to be his friend.

 

~ Mel ~

[Flora]

mel <'> That is so sad. Life can feel very isolated at times for children like ours. I know bill feels like that some times.

 

I've pm'd you.

 

Flora X

[wishingwell]

Oh it heartbreaking to watch!

Can the mainstream work out a system to include Jay in more of a group situation. Or could they move the class around regularly so that he feels that he is accepted. I feel this needs talking over with the school. I'm sure they want him to feel he is a part of the class and not isolated. Put something in his home/school diary asking them to help him with this and explain how upsetting this has been for him. This way they will have to think of a way to help.

Sorry I have no other ideas.

 

wishingwell

[David Matthew Baker]

I don't know if all schools will do this but I have heard the SENCO at my school mention on a few occasions setting up one student to befriend another. From what I can figure out from what has been said they choose a student who is willing to listen to others and compasionate enough to try and introduce them into the school system. I can think of one situation this sort of happened in recently though it didn't require much manipulation to get to happen on our part. For a long while there has been a girl in one of my English classes who is one of the best academically in the class though is a bit of a loner. That said she is also very sensible. We just had a new student arrive who had to change schools due to bullying and we ended up putting the two of them together on a project in English. Both of them seem to have taken to each other which I think is great and are quite protective of each other. I would see if the school could try and identify someone who could work with your son. Even if it has to be a student from an older year group. That way hopefully he could be more fully integrated into the school. At least on the edge of a group you do feel like your part of it. I hope you manage to get the help your son needs. This is one area where support staff are meant to try and assist. Good luck, David.

[Frangipani]

Hi Mel <'> <'> <'>

 

I agree with Wishingwell and DMB. My son often felt like your son. The best thing that worked for me was to make an appointment with the school counsellor or head of Special Needs and tell them what has happened and how upset and low your child is. They will do something like DMB suggests.

 

The thing that really helped my son in mainstream and he only managed mainstream with the assistance of meds, just advising you. It was suggested to always put him with the class 'nerd' the one that always behaved, never disrupted the class, the good worker, they always had the time and skill and patience to help someone with special needs. It worked like a treat for my son. Also seating them towards the front of the class helped.

 

Another thing the teacher did if my son got a bit wobbly, was he had a ruler on his desk and if she needed to remind my son to stay on task, she would quietly walk over to his desk and point to a red sticker that was on his ruler, and that was there code, to say quietly, focus.

 

There were some exit strategies that worked like a treat, if things got a bit too hard he could go outside and sit on a chair and listen to some classical music, like Mozart this helped calm him if my son felt overwhelmed, which he often did at times. Or allow him some things that helped with stimming another calming exercise. Perhaps a quiet corner in the class to draw, and some rewards. Using stickers if he got 5 stickers for good behaviour he got a fluro pen or something along those lines.

 

Perhaps you could mention these with the counsellor, and see if these could help.

 

All the best, <'> just remember you are not alone, neither is your child, many many kids experience this, its all part of life, and it really hurts as parents seeing them suffer, it does break your heart.

 

Hope something really good and positive comes out of it all.

 

Love

Fxx

[Cat]

Kids come to an age when it's just not cool to hang out with anyone who does not match up to their criteria for being cool This is not making excuses for other kids it's just part of growing up and they all have their own problems and hormones to deal with. My eldest never craved friends in the way the youngest does so I never really had this with him. My youngest would pay what ever is needed to make sure that he has friends How do you square the circle. I wish I knew

 

Cat

Edited July 6, 2007 by Cat

[Minxygal]

It's so difficult when our children perceive relationships that aren't actually healthy as friendships, J does it all the time and whenever I try to reason with him and explain why the person he calls friend is actually being nasty to him he gets cross and upset. It's so hard isn't it.

 

Sending hugs!

[oxgirl]

mel <'> That is so sad. Life can feel very isolated at times for children like ours. I know bill feels like that some times.

 

I've pm'd you.

 

Flora X

 

 

Cheers Flora, I've just replied to your pm. <'>

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

Thanks for your replies everyone. Part of the problem is him having his TA taped to his side all the time. None of the kids want to go near him and, in fact, couldn't get near him if they wanted to because he always has a chaperone with him and this blocks any kind of relationship he could build up with his peers.

I don't know the answer to this really. I think he's just going to go through his whole school life alone.

 

~ Mel ~

[hev]

oh the little love,i cant bear it when steves upset so i know how you must feel,ive no answers,ive been there with steve and i didnt know what to do,how old is j?

[David Matthew Baker]

Can the TA give him a little space. Though I am attached to certain students the SENCO told me not always to work directly with them. He prefers it if you give them a bit of space at times. Partially to avoid problems like what you are talking about. Good luck trying to find a solution.

[V1971]

{{HUGS}} good luck, we're in the same boat!

[Suze]

Hi oxgirl, my son attends a unit attached to a mainstream high school.He does,nt socialise much at all with any other students, however at break and dinnertimes instead of remaining in the unit he sometimes chooses to go into the excel room.This is the room that other statemented students have access too, it always has a member of staff in and has computers.It is sort of a half way house to full on socialising.My son likes it there because there is always a member of staff there and because all the idiots he hates would never go in there because it ain,t a cool place to hang out.He has made a couple of pals in there who are like him though, one is an older girl (14yrs with downs syndrome).Is there such a place at your sons school he could access where he would feel safe and meet like minded folks?

[wishingwell]

Yes J uses this room in his school, mornings before class begins, break-time and lunch time. Their is always a member of staff in the room or a TA, they play board games, read magazines, use the computer or draw, In the beginning it was only for sen kids, other quiet shy kids can also excess the room. All sorts of kids are bullied and feel isolated at some time and our kids like to have their company. Also by allowing other individuals in does not draw attention to the sen kids and it gives them the feeling of inclusion.

[Clare63]

Yes J uses this room in his school, mornings before class begins, break-time and lunch time. Their is always a member of staff in the room or a TA, they play board games, read magazines, use the computer or draw, In the beginning it was only for sen kids, other quiet shy kids can also excess the room. All sorts of kids are bullied and feel isolated at some time and our kids like to have their company. Also by allowing other individuals in does not draw attention to the sen kids and it gives them the feeling of inclusion.

 

Connor has access to a simular room at lunch time where they can play games use pc's etc or just sit and chat on the sofa with the staff....something he'd never do !!!!

 

Mel,

<'> <'> <'> <'>

[Bard]

Connor has access to a simular room at lunch time where they can play games use pc's etc or just sit and chat on the sofa with the staff....something he'd never do !!!!

 

Mel,

<'> <'> <'> <'>

 

 

B doesn't go out in the playground, he goes to the special room and reads and reads and reads.

He loves it, and it calms him down before the next lot of interactions.

[pearl]

mel, lots of good replies here, just wanted to give you a <'> (been there, still there sometimes)

[Bagpuss]

Mel, our youngest thinks everyone is her friend, and will announce that X is her best friend (this could be someone she has met once). Very, very hard as a parent to see, and I always struggle with stemming the tears, take care <'> <'> <'>

[mrs.ddh]

All the suggestions/ ideas in this thread were so good! - and my son (14ASD) used to go to the library every break and lunchtime too! It was like the rooms suggested here - quiet, teacher on duty, computers there and books to read, which he too enjoyed as a welcome break from the stress of class. But after two years of hiding in the library, he now goes out at breaks and lunchtimes surrounded by a flock of girls - something I never thought would happen. The first time I saw him outside with his 'gaggle of women' I nearly cried. I cannot say that it is always a bed of roses for him out there, but it is a start. Fortunately, they tend to hang out near the reception area (which has a big glass front and plenty of teachers going in and out - safer!) And my son does struggle to understand them (what lad wouldnt trying to make sense of girls?), but at least he is trying. What helped him to try with kids at school was a summer of Second Life (an online community), one of his many past obsessions. He could practice talking to people and hanging out with them, and it helped his confidence immensely. But, one little warning, if your son is as good at computers as mine is, keep an eye on what he gets up to! My son was able to copy others' work and one lad called him up on it and terrified my son so much he never went on Second Life again...and we had the down side of him not having an obsession to keep him 'grounded' for awhile.

 

So take heart, Oxgirl, your son will find his way too. I feel for you though, as I have had years and years of sitting by and crying because he didnt get bday invites, or Christmas cards, or anyone calling, ringing, texting, emailing him, etc. (And they still do not come very often, but his 'gaggle of women' at school did give him a Valentine Day's card this year!) Fingers crossed for you both.

ddh

[oxgirl]

Thanks all for your replies. <'>

Jay spends his breaktimes and lunchtimes in the ASD Unit, usually sitting on his own reading. There isn't a room in the mainstream like some of you have described, as far as I am aware. Sometimes the unit is a haven away from the stresses of the mainstream but sometimes he faces just as much stress there, sometimes more.

Some more able kids are coming to the unit next year and I hope he'll be able to build a relationship with one of them, but I don't hold out much hope. Even if he does make some 'friends', next year he'll go over to a different building for year 10, so he'll be alone again. I was assured by the Unit Head that, 'oh, we'll have hime some friends by then', well, that was last year and those were just words and he's still friendless and next year will be no different.

I'm feeling so depressed today. It's never going to get better, I just know it.

 

~ Mel ~

[David Matthew Baker]

<'> <'> <'>

 

I'm sure things will get better. Does he have any friends outside of school? If not does NAS run a befriending scheme in your area? I think it can take a while for them to match up people but I expect if you found a good befriender for your son they might be able to help him develop some social skills. Hopefully then he might have more luck making friends at school. That said I expect he would find someone eventually. Hopefully he will find someone soon. On the note about the type of room we were talking about above if they don't have one you could always suggest they set one up. Just make a fuss about how good it would look if ofsted come to visit. Also see if they'd set up some sort of mentoring system that your son could take part in. Depending what the school is like they may well latch onto a good idea. I'm sure some of us could give a bit more details of things that happen in our schools if you'd like us to. You could also press for them to write something into his IEP about helping him develop friendships. That way the school has to try. Good luck, David.

 

PS Try not to beat yourself up. I am sure your son is lovely and will find some people to hang out with. Good luck. <'> <'> <'>

[Clare63]

Thanks all for your replies. <'>

Jay spends his breaktimes and lunchtimes in the ASD Unit, usually sitting on his own reading. There isn't a room in the mainstream like some of you have described, as far as I am aware. Sometimes the unit is a haven away from the stresses of the mainstream but sometimes he faces just as much stress there, sometimes more.

Some more able kids are coming to the unit next year and I hope he'll be able to build a relationship with one of them, but I don't hold out much hope. Even if he does make some 'friends', next year he'll go over to a different building for year 10, so he'll be alone again. I was assured by the Unit Head that, 'oh, we'll have hime some friends by then', well, that was last year and those were just words and he's still friendless and next year will be no different.

I'm feeling so depressed today. It's never going to get better, I just know it.

 

~ Mel ~

 

Oh Mel,

I am sorry you are feeling so low at the moment, don't give up hope. We went to CAMHS today and the guy we saw there said its important to keep the school reguarly informed and reminded of our sons needs, Perhaps you could speak to the school and ask them to help address this need for friendship and social interaction with his peers, also perhaps outreach support could come up with some ideas, sadly we have to keep politely asking firmly for help and support and ensure this followed up.

You got to keep fighting ...... we'll help you.

 

Clare x x x <'> <'> <'>

[oxgirl]

<'> <'> <'>

 

I'm sure things will get better. Does he have any friends outside of school? If not does NAS run a befriending scheme in your area? I think it can take a while for them to match up people but I expect if you found a good befriender for your son they might be able to help him develop some social skills. Hopefully then he might have more luck making friends at school. That said I expect he would find someone eventually. Hopefully he will find someone soon. On the note about the type of room we were talking about above if they don't have one you could always suggest they set one up. Just make a fuss about how good it would look if ofsted come to visit. Also see if they'd set up some sort of mentoring system that your son could take part in. Depending what the school is like they may well latch onto a good idea. I'm sure some of us could give a bit more details of things that happen in our schools if you'd like us to. You could also press for them to write something into his IEP about helping him develop friendships. That way the school has to try. Good luck, David.

 

PS Try not to beat yourself up. I am sure your son is lovely and will find some people to hang out with. Good luck. <'> <'> <'>

 

 

Nope, he hasn't got any friends outside of school either. I know people are being kind, but everyone has been saying for years that he'll get a friend one day but it just isn't happening and I don't see it happening anytime soon either.

 

~ Mel ~

[jb1964]

Nope, he hasn't got any friends outside of school either. I know people are being kind, but everyone has been saying for years that he'll get a friend one day but it just isn't happening and I don't see it happening anytime soon either.

 

~ Mel ~

 

Feel for you Mel - my daughters' 14 and exactly the same - she is so lonely - and although she now doesn't mention it as much and she did say a year ago - I know she's kind of blocking those feelings out - except every so often they take hold and she feels so sad and depressed.

 

Everyone tells us pretty much the same that one day she'll find someone - and I hope and pray she does but it seems so remote that you cannot imagine what will change to make that happen. I worry about when we're gone and who will she have then - I try not to think about it but it's so hard not to.

 

Take care,

Jb

[llisa32]

Hi Mel....I don't know what to say exactly, as my experiences so far are limited as we are just at the start of the diagnosis process with my son who's 7. I can though truely relate to how you are feeling, I know how heartbreaking as a mum it feels when your children feel so sad, and on their own...esp when they tell you they have no friends etc. My son's only done this for a year or two (he never really noticed before then), and it's broken my heart each time he said it...I can therefore only guess at how sad you must be feeling on his behalf.

 

I believe though...that if we are going to help our kids then we really need to dig deep and try and remain positive..It's easier said than done, I know..I have many other things going on in my life at the moment which are really difficult but for me at least if I allow myself more than a couple of days of feeling really fed up about things I'd worry if I could pick myself up and start again. So I let myself have a really good couple of 'fed up' days...I rant - at anyone who will listen, I eat fav food, watch rotten telly etc..then I convince my brain that I've got to have another bash at sorting out the rotten situation - cos if I don't - who will?

 

I'm not having saying you are wrong to be so low about the situation...you are right, and it's only natural..but please don't give up trying to find a solution...my hubby is really shy and was bullied at school...he hated school life because of it, and has never had many true friends as a result. It really impacted his self esteem...however, he would say now that he is happy. There is light at the end of the tunnel..

 

If your son gets on better with younger or older children how about some sort of club or gathering where he could be the helper for the younger ones. I think it's well worth you looking into someof the suggestions from the others on here.

 

At the end of the day you are currently your son's best friend..., he loves you...an you love him.. thats one reason at least to be happy.....I truely hope you can see some light at the end of this horrible tunnel.

 

Again...please don't think I'm trying to make light of how your feeling..I'm truely not <'> <'>

 

Thinking of you - take care

[mrs.ddh]

Hi to all who posted on this thread with their stories,

I am sitting here on the computer writing letters to parent partnership, the LEA, the SENCo (with my son on this laptop nearby - he is signed off of school on medical leave because his weight dropped again - he is anorexic and autistic), and came onto this thread and my heart felt so pulled and hurt. I get up every day thinking I am living in an insane world as nothing ever seems to be get better - we have very small victories here and again - but we constantly fight for our son's education, we constantly have to entertain our son (he has a few 'friends' at school, but this has not been extended to out of school hours), we have no time for ourselves, ever. (No family here.)

 

So, none of you are alone in what you face. I too bury myself in telly or snacks like lisa and try to escape the nightmare that is our lives, it is short-term escapism, and lisa is right - it is so necessary in order to refuel for the next battle. And Mel and JB, I so hope that your children will one day make friends and not feel so lonely and isolated from the rest of the world. Please do not despair, it breaks my heart. I so wish I could do something to take away your pain and restore your faith and hope for the future. I do not have any magic answers, but I do care very much. And if you are feeling low, do not hesitate to reach out. The responses you have received on this thread alone proves that we will be there. java script:add_smilie("<'>","smid_18")

hug.gif

 

ddh

[oxgirl]

Feel for you Mel - my daughters' 14 and exactly the same - she is so lonely - and although she now doesn't mention it as much and she did say a year ago - I know she's kind of blocking those feelings out - except every so often they take hold and she feels so sad and depressed.

 

Everyone tells us pretty much the same that one day she'll find someone - and I hope and pray she does but it seems so remote that you cannot imagine what will change to make that happen. I worry about when we're gone and who will she have then - I try not to think about it but it's so hard not to.

 

Take care,

Jb

 

 

Yes, it's exactly the same for us. He's all we've got and when we're gone he'll be out there with no support having to get by as best he can.

We got some fish for our pond on Sunday and yesterday Jay even said that the fish didn't like him.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

Hi Mel....I don't know what to say exactly, as my experiences so far are limited as we are just at the start of the diagnosis process with my son who's 7. I can though truely relate to how you are feeling, I know how heartbreaking as a mum it feels when your children feel so sad, and on their own...esp when they tell you they have no friends etc. My son's only done this for a year or two (he never really noticed before then), and it's broken my heart each time he said it...I can therefore only guess at how sad you must be feeling on his behalf.

 

I believe though...that if we are going to help our kids then we really need to dig deep and try and remain positive..It's easier said than done, I know..I have many other things going on in my life at the moment which are really difficult but for me at least if I allow myself more than a couple of days of feeling really fed up about things I'd worry if I could pick myself up and start again. So I let myself have a really good couple of 'fed up' days...I rant - at anyone who will listen, I eat fav food, watch rotten telly etc..then I convince my brain that I've got to have another bash at sorting out the rotten situation - cos if I don't - who will?

 

I'm not having saying you are wrong to be so low about the situation...you are right, and it's only natural..but please don't give up trying to find a solution...my hubby is really shy and was bullied at school...he hated school life because of it, and has never had many true friends as a result. It really impacted his self esteem...however, he would say now that he is happy. There is light at the end of the tunnel..

 

If your son gets on better with younger or older children how about some sort of club or gathering where he could be the helper for the younger ones. I think it's well worth you looking into someof the suggestions from the others on here.

 

At the end of the day you are currently your son's best friend..., he loves you...an you love him.. thats one reason at least to be happy.....I truely hope you can see some light at the end of this horrible tunnel.

 

Again...please don't think I'm trying to make light of how your feeling..I'm truely not <'> <'>

 

Thinking of you - take care

 

Thanks lisa, I do know what you're saying and appreciate your time. <'>

It was so much easier for us when he was little, the future seemed so far away, but now he's nearly forteen it feels like time it ticking away, the future is rushing up towards us and it all feels very scary. If he had one friend, just one, I'd be happy for him and he could feel better about himself.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

Hi to all who posted on this thread with their stories,

I am sitting here on the computer writing letters to parent partnership, the LEA, the SENCo (with my son on this laptop nearby - he is signed off of school on medical leave because his weight dropped again - he is anorexic and autistic), and came onto this thread and my heart felt so pulled and hurt. I get up every day thinking I am living in an insane world as nothing ever seems to be get better - we have very small victories here and again - but we constantly fight for our son's education, we constantly have to entertain our son (he has a few 'friends' at school, but this has not been extended to out of school hours), we have no time for ourselves, ever. (No family here.)

 

So, none of you are alone in what you face. I too bury myself in telly or snacks like lisa and try to escape the nightmare that is our lives, it is short-term escapism, and lisa is right - it is so necessary in order to refuel for the next battle. And Mel and JB, I so hope that your children will one day make friends and not feel so lonely and isolated from the rest of the world. Please do not despair, it breaks my heart. I so wish I could do something to take away your pain and restore your faith and hope for the future. I do not have any magic answers, but I do care very much. And if you are feeling low, do not hesitate to reach out. The responses you have received on this thread alone proves that we will be there. java script:add_smilie("<'>","smid_18")

hug.gif

 

ddh

 

Thanks ddh. <'>

All the best to you.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

Oh Mel,

I am sorry you are feeling so low at the moment, don't give up hope. We went to CAMHS today and the guy we saw there said its important to keep the school reguarly informed and reminded of our sons needs, Perhaps you could speak to the school and ask them to help address this need for friendship and social interaction with his peers, also perhaps outreach support could come up with some ideas, sadly we have to keep politely asking firmly for help and support and ensure this followed up.

You got to keep fighting ...... we'll help you.

 

Clare x x x <'> <'> <'>

 

 

Thanks Clare. <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[Canopus]

We got some fish for our pond on Sunday and yesterday Jay even said that the fish didn't like him.

 

Eeeek!!!

 

What sort of person do you have in mind for a friend? What sort of fish are in your pond?

[Bard]

Yes, it's exactly the same for us. He's all we've got and when we're gone he'll be out there with no support having to get by as best he can.

We got some fish for our pond on Sunday and yesterday Jay even said that the fish didn't like him.

 

~ Mel ~

 

I can't begin to know how you feel, because B has never really bothered about needing friends from his own age group. He copes in some organised activities, but the fact that he doesn't get invited to parties, sleepovers, or round to play doesn't ruffle his sunny disposition at all.

It must be very, very distressing for you and Jay to want but not have, and I'm so sorry that it's not happening.

Fish, however, are easy! Get Jay to feed them a little, twice a day, at the same time. They'll soon start shoaling when he comes, ready to gobble. Even if you bought very shy or snobby fish, they are slaves to their stomachs.

Much like the average boy, I find.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Bard

[oxgirl]

What sort of person do you have in mind for a friend? What sort of fish are in your pond?

 

Any kid will do! If anyone has a kid going spare, pass 'em over this way please!

We have two orange ones and one silver one so far! They replace the tadpoles that recently vacated.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

I can't begin to know how you feel, because B has never really bothered about needing friends from his own age group. He copes in some organised activities, but the fact that he doesn't get invited to parties, sleepovers, or round to play doesn't ruffle his sunny disposition at all.

It must be very, very distressing for you and Jay to want but not have, and I'm so sorry that it's not happening.

Fish, however, are easy! Get Jay to feed them a little, twice a day, at the same time. They'll soon start shoaling when he comes, ready to gobble. Even if you bought very shy or snobby fish, they are slaves to their stomachs.

Much like the average boy, I find.

 

Thanks Bard, I've gotta hang on to the hope, but it aint always easy. <'>

He was so excited about getting fish, he's spent every spare minute with his nose inches from the water for months now, watching the tadpoles so we got them to replace the, now, ickle froggies. He was most miffed that they kept swimming to the bottom everytime he approached, took it quite personally I think.

 

~ Mel ~

[Bard]

Teach him about herons!

Our fishpond has a piece of drainpipe at the bottom for the fish to use as a heron-shelter.

If you like frogs and taddies, you may have a problem come spring. If they are goldfish or carp of some sort, when they get to a reasonable size, they will eat spawn and new tadpoles.

Sadly, the only answer I have found is a second pond, or puddle.

Although B loves digging, so we could give you a hand...

[oxgirl]

If you like frogs and taddies, you may have a problem come spring. If they are goldfish or carp of some sort, when they get to a reasonable size, they will eat spawn and new tadpoles.

Sadly, the only answer I have found is a second pond, or puddle.

Although B loves digging, so we could give you a hand...

 

 

Yikes, eat his precious tadpoles?!! His lovingly hand-reared and much examined tads are like family!! Death to any fish who dares to touch his precious babies!!

 

~ Mel ~

[becci]

hi,god i know how hard it is.its been like this for aaron all through school.devastating isnt it.makes you want to get hold of the other kids,shake them and say "WHATS WRONG WITH MY BABY,WHY WONT YOU BE HIS FRIEND"

I KNOW <'> .

I SPOKE TO THE SCHOOL AND FOUGHT LONG AND HARD,AND NOW AFTER MUCH HARRASMENT,THEY HAVE SET UP A FRIENDSHIP GROUP AND A BUDDY SCHEME.BRILLIANT I HEAR YOU CRY...HMMM.

YES IT IS,BUT THE BUDDY THEY GAVE HIM IS BEING PUT IN A DIFFERENT CLASS AFTER THE HOLS!!!

DIMWITS.

SO NOW IT BEGINS AGAIN.I HAVE A MEETING WITH THE H/T MONDAY MORNING AND I AM NICELY GOING TO REQUEST THAT THEY REARRANGE CLASSES SO THAT AARON AND HIS BUDDY CAN BE TOGETHER,I CAN BE VERY PURSUASIVE WHEN I WANT.AND A HEADLOCK USUALLY DOES THE TRICK.LOL.

[Canopus]

Yikes, eat his precious tadpoles?!! His lovingly hand-reared and much examined tads are like family!! Death to any fish who dares to touch his precious babies!!

 

Goldfish and carp are more vicious than many people think they are. I can assure you that it is a choice between fish or tadpoles. My next door neighbour has a pond with goldfish and frogs won't spawn in it. My pond is full of spawn and tadpoles every spring.

[Bard]

Goldfish and carp are more vicious than many people think they are. I can assure you that it is a choice between fish or tadpoles. My next door neighbour has a pond with goldfish and frogs won't spawn in it. My pond is full of spawn and tadpoles every spring.

 

Canopus is absolutely right, so now you have choices to make before spring...

2 ponds

or

Split the one you have with a wall, depending on how large it is

or

Remove the fish and give them a seasonal holiday in a tank, replacing them after your frogs have hopped off

or

Rediscover religion and eat fish for Lent.

Personally, I'd go for a wildlife pond, pond dipping, water boatmen and pond skaters, newts and dragonflies in summer, adult frogs hanging around, tidying up in autumn, dormant in winter.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Bard

[David Matthew Baker]

We have had both in our pond in the past but only because there was a shallow shelf that had so many plants on the fish couldn't get past it. The frogs tended to spawn behind those plants. That said we also always get tons and tons of frogs spawn each year. In fact we have neighbours bringing tiny frogs round in jam jars telling us we think these have escaped from your garden. They seem to forget they're wildlife. Not a pet that will be contained. Technically also a fish pond and a wildlife pond are totally different in anycase. A wildlife pond generally is shallower and has a very shallow gradient. Fish ponds tend to be much bigger. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.