Constant moaning

[Janey]

Do anybody elses kids moan about everything?

 

T. can have had a great day but will pick up on one small incident that wasn't quite to his liking and then we get continual moaning about what a bad day he's had. He went to a birthday party, when I picked him up the party child's mum told me what a nice time he'd had and how good he'd been. Great I thought, but then when he saw me all he said in front of the other mum was what a bad time he'd had because there were no party bags. No wonder he does't usually get invited to birthday parties.

 

Janey

[taggingalong]

yeah i get that loads with my son aged 8. very embarassing. my brother took my two boys out to a big castle one day and all he done was complain and say how awful it was. then he took them on to subway he refused to go in and stood outside hated the smell and refused to eat. i dont think he will be going with him for another while lol. when he goes to parties he usually sits by himself or away from everyone else because they are eating crisps. drives me mad sometimes. oh and he is invited to a party tomorrow this should be fun.

[jb1964]

Hi Janey,

 

My daughter does tend to focus on any negative thing rather than the positives. No matter how lovely something might be if there's one small little thing that perhaps might be not be quite as she expected she will focus on it.

 

Take care,

Jb

[oxgirl]

Yes, Janey, exactly the same for us. Our lad will focus on the one tiny negative incident that might have taken five minutes and disregard the rest of the day, which could have been really nice. It's really hard to get him out of a negative mood when he's like this as well, it's almost like he wants everything to be just so perfect that he cannot tolerate anything that isn't exactly to his liking. It's a shame, 'cos he ends up spoiling it for himself by filling his head with the negative memories and forgetting all the nice bits.

 

~ Mel ~

[hev]

my steve moans at everything,think he takes after my dad,we call him victor medrew,dont think its to do with AS,just think thats what the men are like in our family

 

us women of course are all sweetness and light

[baddad]

Yep - another 10 year old VM here too... i was saying to him just the other day that i didn't want to be around when he hit 60 (SB safe, unless there's some real major medical breakthroughs re halting the aging process! )...

Used to be just 'echoes' of my own particular rants (4x4's, dog poo, mobile phones, double parking, people double parking in 4x4's while talking on mobile phones etc...) but now he's coming up with his own too... the other day he was watching TV and an ad come on for an internet dating agency... they said 'if you don't find someone in six months we'll give you another six months free' he said, 'I'd really rather not, thank you'...

and don't get him started on food additives!

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

I hope you all don't mind but I've read this thread as it has developed with a mixture of interest, slight annoyance and bemusement. I wanted to comment on the general theme and on some of the specific comments from my perspective - that of an AS individual - in the hope that it can help you to understand this issue better as there were many aspects in your comments that could easily have been about me as a child, that could in some ways be about me now and that particularly now are issues that I know I have issues with and that I have to find ways to address.

 

There have been various threads about focussing in the negative before, so I do not want to regurgitate these here. The main issue seems to be that a day that could be fine or even fantastic has been 'ruined' because the ASD child was moaning about a detail that didn't go to plan. The trouble here is that this behaviour is being read as an 'effect' rather than looking at the cause. When you are looking at the cause you are seeing the cause from an NT perspective rather than the actual cause from an AS perspective. What may seem like a change in a tiny detail changes the whole context of the rest of the event/day. To an NT, I assume, the party, visit, trip is exactly the same with one item slightly different. To the AS individual, that change of one small item means that the whole package is different - we can't say 'well this and this is the same as before, I'll block out the that that is different'. Bogdashina refers to this as 'Gestalt Perception' or the inability to filter background and foreground information. Something that is a background detail to the NT is a part of the whole to an AS individual. This is, I think, why I and many AS people find small changes far far harder to cope with than complete changes. Small changes mean that what we were expecting to happen in a particular way doesn't; this is confusing and disorientating and can make me feel physically ill and uneasy. I do suggest reading Bogdashina's book - she shows very clearly how these issues are related to different sensory and perceptual experiences and has really helped me to understand myself and I suspect she would help you to understand what may be seen as over-reactions or rudeness on the part of your chidren.

 

he said in front of the other mum was what a bad time he'd had because there were no party bags. No wonder he does't usually get invited to birthday parties.

I think this is a perfect example of the above. I suspect that when he has been to parties before he has had a party bag at the end. This has been both ingrained into his perception of what a party is (so he has a list of events in his head to work through) and also acts as a clue for the end of the party. Without this clue/event the party isn't what he expected. He behaved during it because it was following what was expected - this occured at the end because a change happened. I doubt this was about the actual contents of the bag put about getting the bag as a discrete event. Perhaps in future you could find out what the party will entail before he goes and work through a visual timetable with him so he knows what to expect and what signals the end.

 

he took them on to subway he refused to go in and stood outside hated the smell and refused to eat. i dont think he will be going with him for another while lol. when he goes to parties he usually sits by himself or away from everyone else because they are eating crisps. drives me mad sometimes.

This sounds sensory to me (as I am coming to see many AS issues are). I can't cope with the smell of that sandwich shop or with the smell of the popular high street fast food chain. I can tell coming into a town if there is either of them there because of the smell. I have to walk on the opposite side of the road but still it effects me. I can't properly explain this but the smell makes it difficult for me to concentrate in walking in a straight line. If someone was to make me go in one of these they would be doing the equivilent of beating me up - it is an assult on my senses. Please understand that your children may well be experiencing things differently to you. I understand that this is hard and I have only recently begun to understand that my experiences are different to the majority of people but now I am understanding this I can see where so many of the difficulties lie - we have different normals - I can't know how you smell these places - you can't know how I smell them and how this seems to have some effect on the way I see and percieve the world. With the crisps, I suspect this is the noise both of the crunch of each crunch on the crisps, the wrapper, but also the smell. I can't sit near people eating celery for the same reason - the crunch physically hurts my ears and the smell makes me feel ill. It may be driving you mad but think what the actual experience is doing to your son - in moving away he is actually being very sensible and removing the stress so as to avoid meltdown. This is something I'm not very good at - moving away from something causing me distress - and is actually a very mature reaction.

 

Yes, Janey, exactly the same for us. Our lad will focus on the one tiny negative incident that might have taken five minutes and disregard the rest of the day, which could have been really nice.

Which brings all this together. Tiny to you but not to the AS individual. It's about trying to understand that different people experience things differently and this is very very difficult. We, naturally, believe that what we smell, taste, hear, see, feel is the same as what the person next to us hears, sees, tastes, smells, feels unless they are clearly deaf or blind. We fail to understand that without one of these 'sensory impairments' people might still experience things differently. I have to remember, and usually forget, that if I'm walking through a garden I can smell many more flowers and far more delicate differences than other people. The number of times I've had the "what do you mean it smells, it's scentless" conversation is remarkable - in the same way I forget my experiences are different, NTs forget AS experiences are different.

 

I think that if you start to think in terms of these experiences, it will make things easier to understand. I eat what you would call generally bland food because to me it is not bland at all. I certainly cannot cope with spices or curries. I avoid smells such as perfumes, fastfood smells, general cooking smells because for some reason they make my vision 'wobbly' and I find it very difficult to concentrate and maintain some focus on what is happening around me. I jump and sometimes scream when people touch me because what feels like a light friendly touch to you is like being slapped/punched to me, I can't cope with large groups of people talking because I hear every voice at the same loud volume with no differentiation between voices - this is disconcerting, disorientating and very confusing. I could go on and bore you much much further. Basically I think it about the really difficult job of two way understanding. AS individuals understanding that their perceptions are different (and now I've understood this it is so much easier for me to cope with who I am) and NT individuals who are with an AS individual stopping for a brief moment and thinking about what the actual cause, rather than the perceived cause, of the bahaviour might be.

 

I really hope I haven't offended anyone in writing this. That wasn't my aim. I have had a huge amount of self-understanding recently and this has really helped me to feel more comfortable in who I am. My hope is that my sharing this and interpreting some of your experiences from an AS perspective I can help you to begin to think about these things too.

 

Mumble

[ASue67]

Wow Mumble! That has really given me an insight into the way my son reacts to things!

Thank you so much.................

[BuntyB]

I think at the same time, we can all appreciate that parents need to offload their own frustrations. Perhaps I can get an insight into what I came on here to offload.

 

L loves the Sims, but her computer had the wrong drive. I bought her it (expensive!), hoping she'd be happy but next thing there's this constant screaming.

What's the matter?

It doesn't work

What doesn't work?

The computer. It never works.

Would you like me to look?

No. I didn't want to play the game anyway. I'm too hot.

Why don't you wear your T-shirt instead of your jumper? (has two fave t-shirts)

No

Why not?

I can't wear them.

Why not?

I've worn them too many days.

Do they need washing?

No. I just can't wear them. Anyway I'm thirsty.

Shall I get you a drink?

No. Go away

 

I expect it all makes sense from her side, but when you are a loving parent and you want your child to be happy and comfortable, it is really frustrating!

[Mumble]

I think at the same time, we can all appreciate that parents need to offload their own frustrations.

I am sorry if I have offended you or anyone else. It was never my intention.

[llisa32]

I didn't find your post offensive Mumble - you gave a very clear insight into exactly why us parents may find our kiddies 'grumpy' and it's useful to get both sides of the coin.

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[oxgirl]

I wasn't at all offended by what you said either, Mumble. <'> <'> I do feel that I have a good understanding of why my lad reacts the way he does, but it doesn't stop it really annoying me sometimes. At the end of the day, his behaviour and reactions to things that are bothering him do effect the whole family sometimes and some things we want to do are for us all and not just for him so it can be really upsetting for us all if he's expressing negativity when the rest of us just want to have a good time, iyswim. We do adore him and we do understand that things are difficult for him sometimes, but that doesn't make him easy to live with sometimes. I guess I'm just trying to say that as parents we can't always be totally understanding towards our kid's needs, 'cos we have needs and wants and problems to deal with as well and it's so upsetting when we feel like our hard efforts to make our child happy isn't good enough and we can't seem to do a thing right for them.

 

Don't feel bad though, 'cos you can see things from our children's points of view and we can understand what you're saying but we are also probably seeing it from a slightly different perspective as well. But it's all good. <'>

 

Take it easy.

 

~ Mel ~

[elun1]

That's exactly how I feel about O (and my eldest too) I do (I think) have a good understanding of WHY he behaves in the way he does but at times that doesn't mean I couldn't just go mad and I could literally walk away at times but I never would.

[dooday24]

reece can be the same if things dont run along how they did before ie>something different at a party hed be really upset.

and mumble that is a gr8 insight thankuxx

love donnaxxxxxx

[mrs fussy]

Hi everyone I would just like to say mumble giving your perspective on things i feel is very valuable to us parents to understand how our children see things and i personally really appreciate it you have pointed some things out here that well.... i hadnt realised until now so thankyou. Now before all the parents on the receiving end of all this have a go at me i can too believe me i can appreciate that it does at times drive you potty, and i think its also important to be able to come on here and say how it really makes us feel otherwise whats the point so i think its good that we can all do that well without people thinking we are in some way 'having a go at someone'I think it shows how this forum is so valuable to us all. Mrs F x.

[baddad]

Quickie (it's late, and it's first day back at skool tomorrow!)

 

Firstly, I worship the ground my son's cheezy little feet walk on...

That doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes drive me nuts. Sometimes when he drives me nuts it's because he's ten. Sometimes it's because he's being a right little s*d. Sometimes it's because i'm too busy/stressed for it all. Sometimes it's nature. Sometimes it's nurture. And - yes - sometimes it has to do with autism... Whatever the reason, that never changes how I feel about him, his cheezy little feet or the ground those cheezy little feet walk on!

 

Generally, I have a fairly good insight into why he behaves in certain ways: I don't think anyone, AS or otherwise, is better qualified to make judgements about that because my son is an individual first and foremost and no more defined by his autism than he is his by the many, many other factors that contribute to the 'whole' - it's an holistic thing...

 

As far as constant moaning goes, Yes, Ben does it a lot... but then so do plenty of NT kids I've met! He also has a fantastic sense of humour and makes me laugh often. Sometimes that humour arises from his AS - a different perspective on the world - and sometimes the moans and groans do too. Sometimes I want to celebrate the former and sometimes I want to offload about the latter. Both are 'valid' and non-judgemental responses, and I share both with Ben and others in the same way - with love, affection and consideration.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

I don't think anyone, AS or otherwise, is better qualified to make judgements about that because my son is an individual first and foremost and no more defined by his autism than he is his by the many, many other factors that contribute to the 'whole' - it's an holistic thing...

Sorry. I really, really didn't mean to offend or upset anyone. That never was and never is my intention. I thought I might be able to help by using some of the insight I have gained recently into myself and particularly the role of sensory issues in AS to help you as NT parents to understand something that is, I think, really difficult to get a handle on.

 

I am very, very sorry for any hurt, bad feeling or offence caused. I find this forum an absolute lifeline; it and its members have helped me significantly over the past 7 months since my diagnosis to begin to come to terms with this and what it means for me. All I wanted to do was offer something in return. I have clearly misjudged this situation and got my response very very wrong. I never, ever wanted to hurt anyone but I seemed to have done so and for that I can only apologise.

 

Mumble.

[baddad]

Sorry. I really, really didn't mean to offend or upset anyone. That never was and never is my intention. I thought I might be able to help by using some of the insight I have gained recently into myself and particularly the role of sensory issues in AS to help you as NT parents to understand something that is, I think, really difficult to get a handle on.

 

I am very, very sorry for any hurt, bad feeling or offence caused. I find this forum an absolute lifeline; it and its members have helped me significantly over the past 7 months since my diagnosis to begin to come to terms with this and what it means for me. All I wanted to do was offer something in return. I have clearly misjudged this situation and got my response very very wrong. I never, ever wanted to hurt anyone but I seemed to have done so and for that I can only apologise.

 

Mumble.

 

Hi Mumble - i'm sorry too: the above is a good example of my poor language skills! I really should stop posting on my way to bed!

What I was trying to say was that all behaviour is complex and based on many factors, situational and constant, social and personal, individual and global, and that that is equally true for NT & AS alike... Next meet up i'll bring my own 'naughty step'

 

I won't edit it, as the result would be confusing for subsequent readers of your own post, but just ignore the para in the middle

 

L&P

 

BD

[Bard]

I've only just managed to get round to reading this thread, having to work gets in the way of having a life.

Mumble, I thought your post was fantastic, a really detailed and honest assessment of some of the sensory issues that some of our children face. It's amazing to think that there is a whole, alternative world running parallel to my perception, and I don't even see it. It's opportunities to learn like this, from AS adults, that are so invaluable.

I was amazed that you could smell those roses at Greenwich. I couldn't, and I was so much nearer to them than you.

I really, truly can't read anything that you wrote as upsetting or even tactless. I thought it was helpful and perceptive, and clearly expressed, so that I began to understand something I can't share

B is less sensitive to noise, but taste and smell are incredibly important to him. He knows if sliced meat is more than a day old, hates spices except cinnamon and mint. He can tell if I deviate from a recipe, even by a fraction.

He had a coughing fit and got very irritated when entering the Support unit last term. We finally worked out that it was a new plug-in air freshener that was wrecking his day. He can't bear smoke, and I can only wear Body Shop vanilla perfume, or nothing, otherwise he feels nauseous.

And touch. He chooses all items of clothing on how they feel, and can't cope with anything but Fairy soap flakes for washing them. He taps and rubs all sorts of surfaces and materials, can tell a huge number of rock samples just by touch, not sight.

As a parent, I get equally irritated by both of my children, NT/AS, girl/boy. They can both be annoying, especially together. Parenting is tough, that's why I have chocolate and icecream, sometimes both.

Shona, I could have had that conversation with my daughter when she was 9. I used to threaten to put her back in the cabbage patch, head down.

I'm glad I kept her, she's turned out quite nice.

[Frangipani]

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