jen Report post Posted March 28, 2006 We were discussing religion in our ASD support group. 90% of the parents in the group are RC. It this a coincidence or what Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted March 28, 2006 I'm RC too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auriel Report post Posted March 28, 2006 are you suggesting theres a correlation between ASD and RC? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted March 28, 2006 Just checked your details to confirm you didn't live in Dublin or somewhere! I think you'd have to see what percentage of the population in your part of Warwickshire were RC, and also look at the local school situation: If there's four crappy Cof E schools and one really higly rated RC one in the area you'll probably find a few new 'converts' among the pushy parent brigade! More seriously, I do seem to remember there being some research into the Asian community which suggested AS 'traits' were more prevalent there, but i think the conclusion was that this was more to do with social factors and typical brain structure of the local population than the 'anticipated' features highlighted by research into AS/ASD... What IS known is that AS/ASD is evident in all racial/cultural factions, and it is generally thought that prevelance is much the same everywhere despite diagnosis rates varying through local circumstances... BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 28, 2006 I contacted an AS support group in Hampshire and was informed that all the kids were of European bloodlines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jen Report post Posted March 28, 2006 What does that mean? Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted March 28, 2006 I contacted an AS support group in Hampshire and was informed that all the kids were of European bloodlines. Sounds like a support group to avoid then - what on EARTH is the relevance of that?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
on the edge Report post Posted March 28, 2006 We were discussing religion in our ASD support group. 90% of the parents in the group are RC. It this a coincidence or what Jen Is probably the chlorinated holy water, or the churches lead roof. Or perhaps is the gluten content of the bread and the salycitate levels in the red wine!!!!!! lol xxx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 28, 2006 Sounds like a support group to avoid then - what on EARTH is the relevance of that?? I was just curious so asked. The area has a low proportion of ethnics so you have to factor this in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyProudfoot Report post Posted March 28, 2006 I'm RC too In fact I was a Catholic before I was born!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tylers-mum Report post Posted March 28, 2006 We are not catholic! So, I guess I'll opt for 'Other'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jen Report post Posted March 28, 2006 On the edge - you are funny. We do not have a large amount of Irish people in the area to work out why the majority are RC Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deblegs Report post Posted March 29, 2006 I am a committed Born again Christian. I do not see myself as being religious. but I do have a relationship with God. I gave my life to Jesus and asked to be forgiven of my sins, when I was 17 and I now have the Holy Spirit living inside me which enables me to live a life that is pleasing to God. From Debbie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarerQuie Report post Posted March 29, 2006 I'm a Christian but not RC or CofE.xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Has anybody here withdrawn their kid from RE lessons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlenemo Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Has anybody here withdrawn their kid from RE lessons? No, but the school was apparently considering taking Dot out of RE, as she was asking too many awkward questions and it was 'upsetting' the other kids. From what i heard it was parents complaining that their kids were questioning their beliefs and blaming the school, and the school were blaming Dot. Apparently they were only basic questions: "Why is God killing all the starving children in Africa?" and "Will everyone who believes in the wrong God burn in Hell forever?". The latter was worrying her as she had friends who were Muslim, Buddist, C of E, Quaker, 7th Day Adventist and RC, so most of them were doomed, whoever was right! Later (age 8) she decided she doesn't believe in a God who can let so much evil exist, but she does believe in reincarnation and faries! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tez Report post Posted March 29, 2006 My husband was threatened with expulsion for asking searching questions about religion such as those Dot asked, and querying the contradictions in the bible. Apparently in the 1960s there was no place in a school for a heretic and it wasn't even a church school. A now occasionally goes to a club for AS boys run by the church. In each seession there is a little morality talk. A asks lots of questions. He has been dubbed intellectually challenging and they wonder whether we might have a quiet word with him about the appropriateness of his questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 29, 2006 No, but the school was apparently considering taking Dot out of RE, as she was asking too many awkward questions and it was 'upsetting' the other kids. This isn't allowed under National Curriculum regulations but the school could persuade you to write a letter to exclude Dot from RE. From what i heard it was parents complaining that their kids were questioning their beliefs and blaming the school, and the school were blaming Dot. Kids have every right to question religious beliefs. Parents have no right to dictate that their kids follow a particular religion without reason or question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caro Report post Posted March 29, 2006 I get so cross when people have a problem with our children asking questions that are controversial. How else are they supposed to find out who they are and what they believe. Good for your children I say and shame on the Adults for just wanting to remove them rather than help them through the process of trying to find answers. Caro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
on the edge Report post Posted March 29, 2006 I am a committed Born again Christian. I do not see myself as being religious. but I do have a relationship with God. I gave my life to Jesus and asked to be forgiven of my sins, when I was 17 and I now have the Holy Spirit living inside me which enables me to live a life that is pleasing to God. From Debbie I can see why you have been comitted!!! It is wise to stay off that ol' holy spirit!!! Just kiddin'..lol I have the 'broken spirit' living inside me and I have a relationship with my husband which enables me to live a life that is pleasing to him...I do all the housework...he doesn't Live and let live I say- ' just I have not been blessed with the capacity to believe in anything. Love peace and respect to all and their relegious beliefs xxxx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 29, 2006 How controversial is acceptable in practice? Are kids allowed to question Islam and the Koran or will there be an uproar from Islamic fundamentalists? Is it fascist to scrutinise the Holocaust and claim there is no evidence that 6 million Jews were executed during WWII, and that certain gas chambers used as tourist attractions were built in the 1950s for precisely that purpose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lorryw Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Of my friends with autistic children, 2 are RC, 3 C of E and one Born Again Christian. My BAC friend reliably informs me that I am a Pagan! Each to their own. Lorainexx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jen Report post Posted March 29, 2006 In my sons old infant school we had a headmistress who believed ASD children were just naughty, a SENCO who always dressed up to the T for review meetings (to impress the male visitors) and was useless at being a SENCO. One day we were talking and I told the Senco GOD had sent my son to their school to make them look at what they were doing so they could become better teachers!!! Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted March 29, 2006 No, but the school was apparently considering taking Dot out of RE, as she was asking too many awkward questions and it was 'upsetting' the other kids. From what i heard it was parents complaining that their kids were questioning their beliefs and blaming the school, and the school were blaming Dot. Apparently they were only basic questions: "Why is God killing all the starving children in Africa?" and "Will everyone who believes in the wrong God burn in Hell forever?". The latter was worrying her as she had friends who were Muslim, Buddist, C of E, Quaker, 7th Day Adventist and RC, so most of them were doomed, whoever was right! Later (age 8) she decided she doesn't believe in a God who can let so much evil exist, but she does believe in reincarnation and faries! This is so sad. Awkward questions should be positively encouraged and dealt with honestly in RE lessons. It's not possible to give pat answers to everything, and teachers will be afraid of challenge if they aren't sure of their ground. I think if acceptance of other religions is to be encouraged, it's particularly important for people to be able to ask questions about things they don't understand. I've been thoroughly grilled about my Christian faith by my daughter and many of her tough questions I can't answer: sometimes because I'm lazy and haven't thought things through rigorously enough and sometimes because there just aren't any neat answers. K Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Is it fascist to scrutinise the Holocaust and claim there is no evidence that 6 million Jews were executed during WWII, and that certain gas chambers used as tourist attractions were built in the 1950s for precisely that purpose? I don't think that would be 'fascist' but I do think it would be sick to use any such discrepency to deny the INTENT of those responsible, or the inhumanity of the acts that were committed... I'll make no comment on the claims you refer to - i simply don't know... what i do know, is that if figures are going to be manipulated, i would rather they were manipulated to reflect the horror and the evil that took place... BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlenemo Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Another of Dot's questions was about how to reconcile "Thou shalt not kill" with the Army; one I couldn't answer. But just now on Radio 4 there was a C of E canon(?) who explained it perfectly in a debate about pacifism. He said that while pacifism may have been a central tenet of Jesus' teaching and was appropriate while Christianity was a small minority religion. But once it became the state religion of the Roman empire it had to leave such immature ideas behind, because the Church's role is now to support the state and large corporations, rather than minorities or the individual. I must admit that to my cynical mind it came as a refreshing moment of honesty. Unfortunately he was cut off mid-flow by a technical fault (or was it an Act of God?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LizC Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Hi I am not catholic either but am like debbie a born again christian (we go to a baptist church), mind you my father in law came from a catholic back ground lol Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Personally, i've always thought 'Don't look for the hand of God in the works of man' to be a perfectly sensible explanation for all sorts of wickedness, including war and famine... To be honest, I think God would be FAR bigger/better than any of it, and if she isn't, she ###### well ought to be! L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richt Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Well, they always say, never talk about religion of politics! I'm Methodist (Chapel) because apparently it was cheaper than C of E to be baptised. My wife is Church of Wales, so we always laugh that despite her being born here, and me just moving in - although Granddad was Welsh -I'm the more Welsh religionwise Personally I think the basic ideas of Buddhism and some other eastern religions are sounder - like the idea of Karma, God if s/he exists, knows what you do, measures you and judges you, when you die you reap the benefits, or negatives of the life you lived. Maybe you get another chance to try again - if reincarnation exists, maybe this is your one time to do what you can, no way do I believe a God who created you and loves you would write you off and cast you into a pit of Hell. S/he made people in her / his own image, flawed, imperfect, but trying to do their best. That's all we can do. Hey ho! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 29, 2006 I wrote the following in an RE exam when I was 12. A question about the Protestant Reformation "The Church of England was invented by a German nutcase with a grudge against the Pope and an English king that went mad over his sex life." A question about the Crusades "Christians have only got themselves to blame for letting Muslims take over Jerusalem because they moved the centre of Christianity to Rome. If the centre of Christianity had remained in Jerusalem then Christians could have prevented Muslims from capturing Jerusalem in the first place." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Another of Dot's questions was about how to reconcile "Thou shalt not kill" with the Army; one I couldn't answer. But just now on Radio 4 there was a C of E canon(?) who explained it perfectly in a debate about pacifism. He said that while pacifism may have been a central tenet of Jesus' teaching and was appropriate while Christianity was a small minority religion. But once it became the state religion of the Roman empire it had to leave such immature ideas behind, because the Church's role is now to support the state and large corporations, rather than minorities or the individual. In other words the church has moved quite a long way from the original teachings of Jesus. That's it's main problem. K Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucas Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Canopus makes the really good points! I too was a difficult pupil in RE at school. When I was moved to a residential school there were few RE lessons in the juniors, when we reached the seniors the teacher there(one of my favourite ever) prefered to call the lesson 'moral issues' to reflect that religion wasn't being taught but that the very foundations of ideas must eventually be founded upon assumptions(premises) based on what a person believes. Because of the few senses and the limitations of human comprehension, there is a ceiling to which we can gather evidence and come to a correct conclusion about problems we face(for example, if we cannot draw a definitve line at when sentience, personhood and humanity begins in the womb, all abortion may be unwitting murder beyond our ability to know). I don't have a named religion but asked mom to put me down as a Jedi on the last census, she told me to not be daft. The Force isn't very strong with her, she gets my name mixed up with my brother. My personal belief is that whilst the universe was not created by a divine influence, the universe created divine things that will have created other things. I believe this because if that paradox: if God created the universe, who created God? An entity cannot design and cause it's own creation before it takes place; I don't see how any sentient being can be immune to personal chronology(the Q in Star Trek may be able to go anywhere in time and space, but it did have a beginning and may have an end in his own personal time). I do though already understand how the universe caused itself to happen, without relying on the need to design it's own cause. I really need to read Hawking's A Brief History Of Time though. I think the contradictions in the Bible and other religious texts are there deliberately though and not merely the mistakes of good liars from hundreds of years ago that didn't remember that this lie would contradict the earlier lie they told. First you need to consider that many religious texts have been translated at least once from another langauge, many more have been translated through two or more degrees of seperation from their original langauge. Second, as far as Christianity it concern the Bible was subject to some editing in the first few centuries by the Catholic Church. There are still a few chapters locked away in some vault in Rome that have never been printed in a Bible in book form and they've certainly never been translated into english. Few will have seen them in a thousand years. Recently an ancient text was discovered that may or may not be the Gospel according to Judas, who betrayed Jesus for thirty silver pieces and gives himself a slightly better explaination for it than mere treachery. Many conservative Christians claim it is either a fake or Judas trying to alter public opinion of himself centuries after he hung himself, but it ties in well with certain other mysterious things that happened in the Bible. Jesus knew one of his followers was going to betray him, he had no evidence of it so it was likely his divinity kicking in which meant that God had meant for him to know. The conservatives belief the Judas gospel is heresy because it would mean God had a part in his son's death, making God a murderer(even though God killed plenty people anyway). At least that is the case by their own interpretation of it. The Bible makes it clear that God is infinitely merciful though, so they face a dilemma because it means they have to review their own interpretation of the Bible and what certain parts mean. They've always held to the idea of the Holy Trinity in a certain way: Jesus is the Son of God, God is the Father of Jesus, the Holy Ghost is the form of God in a pure form, outside the father/son relationship. They believe they are all God in different forms, Jesus is the same as God, he is as God would be if God had the limitations of mortality put on him. The Father has to be the Father of Christ, because he has to have a Father of some kind to exist, the Father is the form of God as the Father of Jesus. The Holy Ghost is God without any form imprinted. So some people believe the Holy Trinity is God in different forms, but others believe the Holy Trinity are entirely seperate entities: Jesus is not God, the Father is only a hypothetical idea and God is God and that's it, no running around in a white sheet with two holes cut out for eyes. Apparently, if one is supposed to be true and the other false, it has huge consequences. Is God commiting suicide is he has a part in Jesus' death? Why did Jesus cry out on the cross "Father why have you forsaken me?" It's boggling. I'm boggled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted March 29, 2006 There was a really interesting documentary in the early 1980s shown late at night about the crucifixion. It claimed that an investigation of Roman records stated that Judas rather than Jesus was crucified. Interestingly enough the Koran states that Jesus wasn't crucified. Jesus is an integral component of Islam but seen as a prophet similar to say Moses or Abraham. Islam denies the resurrection and the concept of the Trinity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Report post Posted March 30, 2006 I have the 'broken spirit' living inside me and I have a relationship with my husband which enables me to live a life that is pleasing to him...I do all the housework...he doesn't OTE - you've really cracked me up. I'm crying here for goodness sake - stoppit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucas Report post Posted March 31, 2006 God bless those Pagans! I know don't pray to you often, but if you're up there Superman... When I hold that gun I feel an incredible power, like what God must feel when he's holding a gun. Homer Simpson's insights into religion. Once again science has faltered in the face of overwhelming religious evidence... Reverend Lovejoy, his cleric. Shouldn't you give him the last rites? That's CATHOLIC Marge, you may aswell ask me to do a voodoo dance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raelien Report post Posted March 31, 2006 I believe in god - or a higher being - purpose whatever you like - but i dont believe in religion, I believe in right and wrong - and thats works for me I was baptised (mormon) latter day saint. mmmm less said and all that!!!!!!!... my son goes to a highly RC school with worship everyday in the church next door and services at the cathedral. but they seem to know how to include the asd kids in the whole thing - so col just see it as fun - he wants to know why gods all around us though!! - still thinking on that one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deblegs Report post Posted April 1, 2006 Hi I am not catholic either but am like debbie a born again christian (we go to a baptist church), mind you my father in law came from a catholic back ground lol Liz Hi Liz I go to a Baptist church in Leicester where I live. Perhaps you would like to keep in touch. From Debbie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Report post Posted April 2, 2006 Hi Peace: I am a muslim by choice as I became a muslim in 1990 after reading the Koran, with Islam today everybody seems confuse the non-muslim who are ignorant of it (most of the time) and take their knowledge from the tabloids and the muslims who bother too much about what those ignorant people think.(but of course it is difficult in the long run to be always refer to as terrorist or backward) On the top of this more and more of the Koran is left out in favour of set of "saying of the Prophet" which differ for the various sects the Shias have their own and the Suffis and the Sunni as well beside Islam is always assimilated with the action of the muslims mainly when they are extemists while this never seems to happen with other religious-political stand. Islam is a monotheistic religion and recognised all the prophets in the Thora and the Bible and many mores Jesus is one of the most revere figure of islam but he is refer to as a prophet with a special spiritual message who has been "created" without a father like Adam and Eve have been created without a mother or a father. Muslims beleive in the virginity of Mary. One of the most beautiful chapter of the Koran is "Mariam" or Mary. Budha is often consider as a prophet sent to ask mankind to look after the creation but is message has been distorted and Budhist today worship the creation and Budha himself instead of the creator. The most learned chapter of the Koran recited every day in prayer is refering to God as the God of the Worlds which implies that there are other world (gallaxy) beside the one we live in. For me Islam is the only religion who has encourage science research this is why for centuary the Muslim world was leading research in medecine, astronomy and navigation (al-gebra and al-chemy are 2 arabic words) they were the one who developed mathematic and start to use the number zero which is probably the most important number in mathematics. In any case the only way to know what is Islam all about is to read an interpretation of the Koran with an open mind without getting too much into what different muslim sects say is right or wrong. Malika. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Report post Posted April 2, 2006 I forget to ask one question which use to bother me when I was Chritian why is it, as Christian are Jesus follower, and Jesus was Jewish that Christian do eat so much pork meat (this is forbidden in Islam as well as in Judaism)? and why is it if Jesus die on the cross for our sins to be forgiven should we be worried to go to hell or should we need to ask for forgivness knowing that we are forgiven anyway? Malika. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted April 3, 2006 Can a privately owned SEN school that is not connected to a church impose a particular religion upon the kids via the school rules? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
