please can you tell me if you autistic child does the following

[opheila]

Hi everyone

I wonder if I can ask if you could reply to these questions the speech therapist from hell is trying to say that children on the autistic spectrum don?t

1 gives eye contact

2 are not affectionate

3 hardly have any speech or language at all

 

L does give some eye contact, he is affectionate but only lets you kiss his head and he does have language but doesn?t put full sentences together.

He goes into what I call absences whereby he rocks hums and flaps his arms spins and walks on his tiptoes

 

Can as many of you please tell me if your child does any of the above as I am about jumping of a cliff with the person

 

I have read and read loads of material wherby a lot of parents have said their children do give eye contact and are affectionate and have some speech

Thankyou would be greatful for replies to these questions

[elaine1]

T gives eye contact to us but not others, his speech is good although his use of words is immature, he will give me a big cuddle sometimes or just ruffles my hair as he walks past, he is 2 inches taller than me lol. <'>

[Jericho]

I have 2 boys who are autistic.

 

Both of them can give eye contact when they want to.

 

They can both be very affectionate. Lots of hugs, a few kisses, and even the occasional "I love you, Mum."

 

One started using language by 2yrs and the other by about 3yrs but both are chatterboxes now - especially when it comes to their latest obsessions and interests.

[Lynden]

I think the thing is not that autisic people dont do those things, its that they aren't appropriate - ie they could stare too long as opposed to not look, or can be overly tactile with strangers etc.

 

Logan rarely gives eye contact with strangers, but he will with us, although not for long. He's overly affectionate with family, but wont allow others to touch him,and at the moment he has no speech at all.

 

Lynne x

[summertime]

if the speech therapist is saying that then she needs a bomb up her a**e or the sack

 

a child on the autistic specrum will probably have difficulties with eye contact, affection and speech but this certainly doesnt mean non at all

 

we are talking about abnormal eye contact, some wont give it at all others too much but they rarely like it as they dont understand the rules of it.

 

boundaries and appropriateness of affection are a problem as again they dont understand the rules, they may not want any affection at all or they may be as affectionate with the Headteacher or a stranger as they are with a close member of the family

 

they will have difficulties in understanding some areas of communication so although they may have a very good vocabulary they may not understand intonation or implied meaning or any munber of other areas of speech.

[chriss]

This speech therapist wants shooting! Can you e-mail her this thread?

 

As has already been said autistic people do all three of these things but often inappropriately. Eye contact may be flitting or go on too long. Affection may be too much, a hug may feel like it will break a rib, or it could be to a virtual stranger. And speech can be repetitive, monotonal, pedantic and the person may take everything literally and not understand idioms.

 

Really you should complain about your speech therapist to your PCT. as they are getting paid a lot of money to upset you, when really they should be one of your childs main sources of help.

 

Incidently, I have had a run in with an equally ignorant ed Psych. It makes me wonder if these people keep up to date with medical science as autism wise they are stuck in the 1970's.

[annie]

My son gives eye contact a lot more now, though when he was younger it was very limited. He is very affectionate, but it is on his terms only and always has been. His speech and language has always been very good, the appropriateness, tonation and understanding of it was/is the difficulty.

Edited October 24, 2006 by annie

[venus]

hi, my son was diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum in july,he is 5. My son loves cuddles and hugs and he always has done, he has vey good eye contact with people that he knows well but also has eye contact with strangers now and that is getting better all the time.His speech is very good.My son also runs up and down the room spinning his hands and has started to make this awful whirring noise aswell.Hope this helps

[elainem]

my son does all 3

 

1 gives eye contact

 

all the time and appropriately - in fact if I don't look at HIM when talking he gets annoyed

 

2 are not affectionate

 

very affectionate and not OTT either - kisses and cuddles

 

3 hardly have any speech or language at all

 

delayed sppech at 2.5 now at normal range

 

 

She needs to get her facts straight

 

Elaine

[BusyLizzie100]

Hi Opheila, I hope this puts your mind at rest!

 

Both DS1 (Asperger's) and DS2 have really good eye contact. You'd have to look really hard to see that there is something different about the quality of their eye contact, but on the whole it doesn't cause them any great problem.

 

Both boys are ENORMOUSLY affectionate. As a toddler DS1 would race up to me, give me an enthusiastic squeeze and race off again. Now he comes to me for hugs and cuddles and reassurance in a world that is difficult to understand. His best way of dealing with anxiety is to come to Mum for a cuddle.

 

DS2 was a smiley, lovable (very slowly developing) baby and for ages ASD was dismissed because of his eye contact and sociability. When he was eventually diagnosed by Guy's Hospital we were told he had a very thin social veneer and we were warned that this could create problems for him, as people would tend to think he was more understanding and sociable than he is... and how true that has been!

 

DS2 has always been a very 'needy' boy, in that he has needed lots of physical and emotional support, albeit on his terms. Eg he would come and sit on my knee to press against me and play with my mouth. Now (at age 6) he has just taken a fancy to kissing, and likes to cover me in kisses at every opportunity, as well as climbing on my knee to snuggle up.

 

Both boys say they love me, regularly, although I can't remember when they started. I'm a very, very lucky mummy.

 

DS2 started seeing the speech therapist quite early on as a toddler and she just kept saying play with him, talk about washing dollies and making cups of tea etc, imitating real life. Well, it didn't make any difference and her input had no effect.

 

When I first approached the OT and the paed suggesting DS2 might have ASD, they said 'of course he hasn't.' But once they got together and started talking with his nursery school and everyone raised just a few little things that weren't quite right, the paed decided to refer him to Guy's and he was dx straightaway. We knew he was autistic, but it took the experts to make the dx. I'm not sure if speech therapists dx ASD?? I could be wrong, but DS2's didn't think anything was wrong with him.

 

Both boys have language. DS1 began talking early and now I can't shut him up! But he does have problems, like he doesn't understand the to and fro of conversations, he talks at me rather than with me and he doesn't get the social nuances, etc. DS2 was later than most in learning to talk (hence the speech therapist) but now talks well and copes well at mainstream school with a Statement. He has more obvious problems, like echolalia, immediate and delayed, and gives the impression of understanding much more than he does. he struggles with both receptive and expressive language but he is doing OK. He gets input from the speech therapist on his Statement but it's minimal - that's probably more down to funding and availability than his actual need.

 

Sorry to write an essay about my boys, but it sounds like you needed this kind of an answer! What everyone else has already mentioned is also true, of course. It depends so much on the individual. I think Summertime is right, and that your speech therapist needs a bomb inserted somewhere or, at the very least, you need a second opinion or referral to someone who CAN dx ASds.

 

All the best, and I hope you find the answers you need.

Lizzie x

[lynyona]

kieran can give eye contact to us only sometimes,he isnt a very good talker i sometimes struggle to understand him and he wil say letters instead of sentences if he can figure it out,he will say get me ms and i know that he wants his magazines getting from the shop when i go.he can be affetionate when he wants to with me very rarely dh.If he s been in meltdown for any reason i will say to him give me an hug for the day and he does but i have to get him to bend down as he is too tall for me to put my arms around his neck lol.What normal 20 year old would let mum doe this.

 

 

 

lynn

[UltraMum]

1 gives eye contact

2 are not affectionate

3 hardly have any speech or language at all

 

1. Didn't used to - now looks at nose/ear in an effort to appear normal

 

2. Yes can be affectionate - but only on his own terms and when he chooses

 

3. Slow speaker to start ... still not very communicative even now and usually unable to make conversation or even join a conversation appropriately

 

I would ask what autism specific training she has had ...

 

You may wish to print this off and give it to her to read: from the NAS

Diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorders - a brief guide for health professionals

Edited October 24, 2006 by UltraMum

[Bullet]

1 - Tom can give eye contact but it's a lot less than other children.

2. He can be very affectionate, but it's on his own terms. Try and hug him and he'll stiffen and move away, or sometimes accept but not really be bothered. However, when he wants he'll clamber into your lap, pull your hair, poke your face, kiss you and laugh at you .

3. He can recite rhymes and songs and recognise some pictures, knows numbers 1 - 30 (and read 1 - 20), most of his alphabet and some shapes. He can't communicate (eg say "Tom drink"), won't point things out or show things, has very limited verbal understanding (still doesn't respond to "where's daddy?" for example) and communicates his wants by dragging us to what he wants and manipulating our hands.

[oxgirl]

My son's eye contact is okayish, a bit fleeting, but not too obvious.

He is not at all affectionate, never touches others. He will tolerate a hug from me, but will often ask me 'when will this end'!

His speech is good, but his tone is very flat and his voice is a bit distinctive. He is not able to 'chat' though, especially when it comes to other children and STILL (at nearly 13) 'forgets' to say hello to people when they say it to them!

 

~ Mel ~

[dooday24]

reece gives lots of eye contact can be very affectionate but usually very ott when giving kissess and cuddles he has some speach delay

[opheila]

You are all wonderful people thankyou so much for your replies <'>

I wonder if you would mind me showing some of these as examples to this speech therapist on tuesday.

This person has only seen my son three times and bascially is new to the job. Why are these new people not shadowed. She has been given all his notes from the four before her and they are all in agreement L is on the autistic spectrum. Yet it is her opinion the pead will go on.

 

thank you again from the bottom of my heart you have been a god send and it just goes to prove these people really dont know our children

[LizK]

She sounds like she has a very basic poor understanding of autism. The one thing I picked up from Earlybird was that autism can present in so many ways and for every child that does one thing another will do the opposite.

 

In answer to your questions

 

1 gives eye contact

Yes but it's not the same quality of eye contact as other children do. It can be fleeting or inappropriate. If stressed or in an unfamilar environment his eye contact is poorer. Was reading an article about eye contact in autism a while ago from someone well reknown in the field and it said that autistic kids can give eye contact but they struggle with joint attention and eye pointing

 

2 are not affectionate

My son is very affectionate but again has a different quality. He will give me and asks for kisses and hugs but finds it uncomfortable to sit and snuggle into you. His hugs last a couple of seconds and then he's off

 

3 hardly have any speech or language at all

Adam has high functioning autism, he has fluent speech but has about a 1.5-2 year delay in expressive and receptive speech and has the typical pragmatic difficulties associated with ASD. I know several autistic children who are very eloquent verbally but who still struggle to communicate becasue they don't understand the social aspects of speech. Your SALT should know more than anyone else that the spoken word is only a small part of communication

 

Lx

[badonkadonk]

I agree with what others have said on here and would definately go armed with as much material as you can next time about the differences in people with asds and I would print off this thread but eliminate the bits about people wanting to shoot her, she might not take it too well lol.

 

Communications wise my AS seems to affect me in different ways. I think it's partly because I'm female (honestly, I do think there is a definate difference between AS girls and AS boys) and partly because I went undiagnosed for so long I have somewhat been forced to learn all the rules and things that NTs do when they communicate.

 

So, I can make eye contact. Mostly, in front of strangers, they get nothing, zip nada nowt. Sometimes I can make eye contact if I'm feeling ok with the situation and I can usually make eye contact better if the person knows that I have AS. I don't know why that is, I think it might be an "at ease" thing, but it certainly seems to help as often the people who know I have AS tend not to stare at me when they talk but rather talk just above me or to the side of me as a kind of "look, I'm not forcing you to make eye contact" thing. I can make eye contact quite often with my close family and frequently with my boyfriend. Eye contact for me is definately linked to my levels of comfort.

 

I can also show affection, hence the fact that I have a boyfriend, I don't think he would stick around too much if I didn't hug him and have a smooch now and again. Again it's a comfort level thing. I HATE strangers touching me, I hate it and for some reason have a compelling urge to shout "stranger danger" whenever someone touches me. As a kid I could kinda get away with it. As an adult it makes me look like a nutso, but hey-ho it just comes out lol. Also I hate fake touching, if that makes any sense. The hug that your distant aunties give you at yearly family gatherings or the pat on the back etc. These people don't really want to hug me so why they do it god only knows and I don't like it. I also don't like shaking hands because of the germs and because people usually have hot hands and I don't like it very much. Also I don't know when to and when not to shake hands so I don't initiate it at all. But I do give hugs from my close family and seek comfort from my mum when I'm ill. I also can show comfort to my family when they are ill as well.

 

I'm struggling to get my sentences coherent because I'm talking about touching strangers lol, hope it's making sense.

 

I just stopped writing this post to go and check with my mum about my speech development. I developed in all areas, as a child, as quick as I could. I talked as soon as I could, I walked just after my brother (who is 13 months older than me). When my brother started school he used to bring his word tin home and struggle to learn how to say the words and there would be me, peeking over his shoulders going "mummy, I know, I know!". I read everything, even before I knew how to read I would imitate the actions of my mum and dad. I started reading books out loud when I was 5 and not long after my mum taught me about "reading in your head" and so, aged 6 I read the whole of the BFG in my head in a few days. I don't have any significant problems speech wise. I can stutter when I get excited and almost perfectly say words back to front almost every day. Things like "do you want some tomato soup" become "do you want some somato toup". I do this alot. I can also get quite monotone at times, especially if I'm not feeling very happy. Alternatively I can get quite excited and talk without "taking a breath" as my mum calls it when I get very happy. Because I'm talking all in one go at the same excited pitch this can also be monotone but in a different way. Language wise I don't get jokes at all, sarcasm it depends on the mood and the person, I have to be really on the ball to get sarcasm sometimes. One thing I do struggle with though is when people say things that they don't really mean but they say them to make a joke. I'm very gullable and will believe that the person is telling the truth. An easy example is someone saying at the end of a conversation "stranger things have happened" and someone else will say "oh yeah I know, you should have seen this pig flying over my house yesterday". I mean I know now that pigs don't fly but if I didn't know that i would believe them. I'm not very happy with that example because it seems silly but I can't think of another one at the moment.

 

Anyway, despite all this, I still have Aspergers and have an official dx. Print this off if needs be and say to the woman, the autistic spectrum is just that, a spectrum or scale. It is huge, varied and not one autistic child is alike. What we do share is common traits but that doesn't mean that all traits will present in all those who are autistic. They are common, just like the name Jones, but not everyone is called Jones now are they?

 

Good luck, hope the situation gets resolved.

 

Emily

xxx

 

(sorry it's so long, I'm having an incoherent day today)

[Nic m]

Hi Ophelia,

My daughter has eye contact but at times it is very 'glassy' if that makes sense and she also stares at people too much and can do this without blinking for a long time, no one has ever beaten her at a staring contest! She does struggle at times with looking at people but ive always thought with her that this was about not being seen herself (she still thinks if she cant see you you cant see her).

She is very affectionate with me gives her dad and gran a kiss and cuddle when saying goodbye not much with anyone else.

Her speech is a mixed bag she has a great vocabulary and loves new words her tone is either very quiet or very loud mostly very loud! many people comment on the voice that comes from such a petite wee girl.When very stressed she cant form words at all and always mixes her words up like "can i have cup in my milk".

We now have a dx but only recently and our battle sounds very similar to yours. Good luck,Nicola

[Bagpuss]

I have two daughters, one dx ASD, one dx AS. My eldest 9 who is dx AS is very good with eye contact with people she is comfortable and familiar with, but I've noticed that recently on a trip to the library the librarian was talking to her about the different types of books she could choose from and she didn't look at him once. She gazed at the floor, without acknowledging him, although listening intently to what he was saying. She is very affectionate, loves hugs and kisses, although there were some difficulties with her speech and language when she was younger, she caught up rapidly, and now appears to be abit formal with her speech, it never seems to change pitch. She absolutely does not "get" sarcasm, and her laugh often appears forced and strange (if that makes sense).

 

Our youngest daughter 6 dx ASD is ok with eye contact within the family, but will run from neighbours etc who try to engage her in conversation. She will not look at them, full stop. She won't even reply to any questions they ask, even if they just say hello, she will not acknowledge it. She is affectionate, and will ask for hugs and tickles, but not as much as our eldest daughter does. Her speech and language were slow to develop, although she has a good range now, she will stick to familiar sentences and words.

 

Hope this helps If there is one thing I've learnt along the way....and we've been dealing with professionals since 1999 when they first suspected our eldest daughter could be on the spectrum, is that you will be told different things by different people, their opinions will vary, and what they expect to "see" will vary.....it very much seems to depend on who you happen to get that day/referral. I don't think its so unusual to have SALT's form differing opinions dependant on their own views of AS & ASD, and it certainly is something we experienced.

 

Take care and good luck <'>

[Jadensmum]

1 gives eye contact

2 are not affectionate

3 hardly have any speech or language at all

 

My son has great eye contact with everyone. He is affectionate but only on his terms and he is non verbal.

 

Good Luck

[loulou]

Hi,

 

My son is 8 and he has AS/ADHD. He talked from a very early age (spoke 42 words by his first birthday ). He now speaks like a walking dictionary when talking about something he likes to somebody he feels comfortable with.

 

On the other hand, he will not talk to strangers (usually runs off or shouts "go away!") and cannot hold a decent two-way conversation (even with myself). He doesn't understand sarcasm and is just starting to "get" basic jokes.

 

His eye contact is "fleeting" as others have described. Sometimes he gives none and sometimes he has a sort of glazed "nobody at home" look to him, if that makes sense? Funnily enough, he was in hospital last night and a nurse asked if he "really had autism" because he "looked" at her? I had to laugh at her ignorance to be honest. He was completely off his face on painkillers and was staring into space the whole time .

 

He was quite affectionate with me when he was little, but on his terms only. Now he is less affectionate but will sometimes get into my bed in the mornings for a cuddle. A few months ago he spontaneously hugged my mum and she was so shocked and pleased she cried .

 

Hope you manage to get all this brilliant information everyone has given across to the SALT,

 

Loulou xx

[loupin]

What an outrageous speech therapist!! That is the kind of rubbish we put up with from people who dont know any better!! My boy is 6 and is asd, semmantic pragmmatic & has a learning dis. He makes eye contact but doesn't understand or process what he sees. He is very affectionate to me and goes rigid if any one else hugs him, he tells me he loves me a lot! He is very verbal although his words are very jumbled and he"goes around the houses" to tell you something simple. He also repeats films and uses them to replace his own language. He also has poor auditory processing skills and word retrival. He broke my heart yesterday when he couldn't name the dish washer a pan and a cupboard. We are very lucky in that we have a fabulous speech therapist who has brought him on in the last 6mnths beyond recognition. If i were you i would ask to be referred to an experianced speech therapist who specialises in children with asd and stamp youre feet until you get one!! Our children are so precious that there is no time for people to learn on the job with them. Difficult and harsh i know as people have to learn but our children need confident professionals who know exactly what they are doing and with whom they are dealing. If this speech therapist "has A go" and gets it wrong it is valuable time wasted and not her who has to sort it out!

Sorry for the rant but i can see with my boy the benefit of good speech therapy

[cmuir]

Hi

 

It's infuriating that some so-called specialists insist that a child has to tick every box to get a diagnosis. There's so much more to it. My son is very inconsistent in terms of his behaviour, eye contact, etc. My son's eye contact is very variable. He can have very good eye contact, to completely blanking anyone, to staring. My son's speech appears to be very good. He can sound rather adult using long words. That said, although specialists say his speech appears to be very good, they believe he's having trouble understanding and he's using his wits and intelligence to overcome difficulties. He can be affectionate (but only on his terms). There's a whole host of what's thought to be typical traits (not sleeping, obsessiveness, horrendous tantrums, , poor imagination, lack of eye contact, rocking back and forth, sticking to rules, etc) and individually these in themselves aren't always a definitive confirmation, however when someone displays a whole host of traits, collectively these traits can strongly suggested an ASD.

 

My advice is to go with your gut feeling (my GP and HV categorically told me my son didn't have AS - it's been confirmed he does by a specialist that knows what they're talking about!). If you need more pointers, www.autism.org.uk gives some information.

 

Best wishes

 

Caroline

[darky]

what a load of %�"%"�!!! i have 3 kids all with ASD. my youngest, eye contact, affectionate if anything over affectionate, and can talk the hind legs off a donkey.

 

my eldest boy, no so affectionate, limits eye contact but does give it, and talk oh my god, can he!

 

my youngest son, eye contact, affectionate on his terms, has full language but has quite significant higher order language skills difficulties.

 

your speech and lang therapist is either rubbish or is fobbing you off!!

[jlp]

My son has eye contact - not always right: sometimes just a fleeting glance or other times, a stare.

 

He's very affectionate with me and to a lesser degree with dp and my mam.

 

His spoken language is on the 99th centile (excellent in other words)

 

What a silly speech therapist!

[jb1964]

My daughters been diagnosed ASD with Aspergers best fitting her difficulties.

 

1. Eye contact - is extremely poor outside immediate family that she knows - will turn head to the side when talking and seems extremely rude. At home she will try but it's 'different' - it's as though she's not really looking at me and her eyes flick up and out to the side every couple of seconds.

 

2. Affectionate - inappropriate and always on her terms. Not affectionate just for the sake of it - when she is anxious or upset fails to see anyone else needing help and unaware to offer comfort etc.

 

3. Speech - brilliant (from a young age - but very old fashioned and precise - too perfect really - no slang words) - can talk for Wales but again only on her interests etc. Although she finds it extremely difficult to hold a conversation with - no chit-chat - would never talk about everyday life and things - will only initiate conversation about things that interest her or worry her etc. Finds it difficult to understand meanings behind words - and can't move on from anything that she can't understand i.e. the one the Consult. mentioned was that during one assessment they were talking about nutrition etc - and asked her did she eat many carbohydrates - and then went on to give examples of carbohydrates - but she couldn't get past the initial words they were stuck in her head as she didn't know what a carbohydrate was - no matter how much they tried to explain she got frustrated at upset after the initial few words. Takes everything literally although we have practically gone through every idiom that we can find to explain things and she finds this funny. Speaks very precise and in either a very flat tone - or over exaggerated sad or happy tone. Finds it difficult to follow conversations when a few people are talking back and forth.

 

Take care,

Jb

Edited October 25, 2006 by jb1964

[butterfingersbimbo]

good luck, i agree with the others....