Shocking Secondary School Visit

[Bagpuss]

I went to an Options interview at our DS's school this morning, and witnessed behaviour that appalled me, and not just from the pupils I really did not realise this sort of thing was going on in schools, and so openly, because it certainly didn't when I went. I sat there, in reception, totally shell shocked.

 

Whilst I was sat waiting, a mum turned up with her daughter for the same type of appointment. She was very verbally agressive to the receptionist, and told her in no uncertain terms that she would not be staying for the appointment because there was no point. Her daughter was crying, and made a move to go back out of the school, and her mum lunged at her. She grabbed her, and nearly throttled her by dragging her back by her school sweater very violently, and was very physically agressive towards her daughter. The mum was shouting and swearing at her daughter, and this wasn't done in private, the reception area was full of pupils, a member of staff and me. The mum demanded to be let out of the building (the main entrance is locked, and has to opened by receptionist), and she then forced her daughter outside with her, and the scene outside was worrying. The mum looked totally unhinged. I actually wondered at one point if I should go out and intervene. Fortunately two members of staff arrived, and brought the girl back into school, sobbing and hysterical, and the mum stormed off. One of the pupils sat next to me nonchalantly said "Well, at least we are learning life skills, and can see what heroin does to you" , and they all laughed

 

I had assumed that the group of students I was sat with were waiting for their parents, or to go somewhere, but one by one, a member of staff took them aside, gave them a right, erm, telling off, and sent them to isolation. One lad refused, and the member of staff said she could ring his parents if he wished, and he could go home, it was his choice, isolation or home. He really didn't give a stuff, and slouched off to isolation, laughing. Another of the pupils basically laughed it off too. All the kids were full of lip and cheek, and in ripped uniform.

 

The staff all had walkie talkies, and I tell you something, it was easy to forget I was actually in a school. What an eye opener. Whilst all this was going on, there were two Year 7 pupils, who were sat in reception as duty pupils (they run errands throughout the day), and I really felt for them. I was feeling very worried, so god knows how they must of felt.

 

Blimey, if I'd of dared even cheek a teacher, my mum and dad would of come down on me like a ton of bricks. As for the mum....well, words fail me. What's the world coming too My DH often deals with difficult social situations, and he thinks I live in a bubble.......well...I'm off back to me bubble, cos I quite like it there.

[brooke]

i left school 10yrs ago (has it been that long ) and this doesnt surprise me bagpuss. I still remember how the teachers couldnt control our classes, my education suffered because of it. I worry about when my boys go to the local comp as it doesnt look too good either. Even the "better" school arent that good and you have to fight for a place there!

[oxgirl]

Oh dear, that's horrid, Baggy, that poor girl. Imagine if her mum does that in public, what on earth does she do in the privacy of her own home with no-one watching! They can be quite intimidating, can't they, teens, especially when they're full of bravado and showing off to each other to prove how 'hard' they are. What does your lad say about the school, it's probable that you just saw a few bad examples and that the majority aren't like that at all. It's hard to know, though, isn't it, 'cos at secondary school we don't have much to do with the kids and teachers, it's just a matter of seeing them for ten mins once a year! I have my parents' evening/options evening tonight with Jay, wish me luck! I have very little to do with the main school, I only deal with the Unit staff, but I do get to sit in the playground and wait for him and I see all the kids coming in and out of the school. The majority of them are relaxed and happy and chilled, but you do see the odd worrying sight.

 

I bet you were all shaky inside, were you, I would have been. <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[Bagpuss]

Poor DS, he's worried I'm going to move him now

 

He's witnessed a few incidents, mainly last year, and during a particular lesson, which were dealt with accordingly. He says now everything is ok and I just got a quick glimpse, and the majority of the pupils are fine, which I'm sure is true.

 

This school does have a good reputation, but blimey, when I think of our eldest dd going up to it Sept next year, being AS, and witnessing things like I did this morning, it worries me.

 

Don't know why I'm surprised though, you only have to look at the gangs of kids roaming round our estate to realise something is going badly wrong somewhere.

[Bard]

Welcome to our world, it's a shock isn't it?

I've taught in primaries where the Y6 were like that, and there's very little you can do other than hope that the parents stay at verbally abusive rather than needing the police calling.

One primary I was in had internal security doors, so that you could lock down a section if 'difficult' parents were endangering others, and we carried walkie talkies, didn't see certain parents alone.

Ho hum!

[Bagpuss]

Has it always been this way Bard?

 

I've got friends who are teachers, and they've had some really awful experiences, but I'd kinda assumed it was just at "certain" schools, which had problems......obviously from what I've witnessed today, it isn't.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Bagpuss

[Bard]

Has it always been this way Bard?

 

I've got friends who are teachers, and they've had some really awful experiences, but I'd kinda assumed it was just at "certain" schools, which had problems......obviously from what I've witnessed today, it isn't.

 

Oh hunnybunny, do you really want to know what this elderly and grumpy old witch thinks?

Too many children full of their rights without being asked to consider the rights of others as well.

Lack of thought and consideration between human beings, not just rude children but adults who don't set rules or expectations for their children and don't show them how to behave through their own example.

Very little back up for those who want to change things, too much blaming without looking at root causes.

 

Nature/nurture, not enough nurturing. I often compliment parents on their lovely children, and point out that they didn't happen by accident. Good parenting is a huge influence. I wouldn't worry, your children have back up from you that will carry them forward through their lives with a value system that they can refer to and know what's a good choice.

Wouldn't our ASD children find the world easier if it were more tolerant and less based on the wants of the strongest?

 

Off to get a hot chocolate, trailing my black cloud behind me...

[Bagpuss]

I had wondered if my shock at what I witnessed had any relevance to my unbringing. I was raised in a military environment. You all lived, worked and were educated together. I never came across drugs, full stop. No one pushed the boundaries. You conformed, it was expected, in and out of school and work. If you didn't behave at school, your dad could be disciplined via his boss. All teachers were called Sir and Ma'am. Even as a teenager, the most I got up to was having a crafty ciggie at the park, and maybe the odd gulp of cider. Then I went on to join the military myself, and again, same environment. It was kind of a bubble, and you were not touched by crime either.

 

The gangs of kids on our estate are terrifying....I've seen them in action, taking baseball bats to our neighbours fence, and baiting him to come out, after he'd confronted them for shouting insults at his wife. They just seem so out of control now, and they don't seem to fear anything or anyone. Those pupils I saw today, being disciplined, did not care.

 

My DH deals with this day and day out. He says their is little respect anymore, for anyone. They even have to accompany the firefighters, because they are being stoned.

 

A couple of years ago, I was on a train, travelling to see some friends. It was quite late, a Friday evening, and it was packed. There was one particular fella, drunk, looked abit rough round the edges, being loud and obnoxious. He was targetting one particular passenger, an elderly guy, sat opposite me. Not one single person spoke out. Everyone looked out the window, at their papers, at the floor, anywhere but at what was happening.

 

Eventually I could stand it no longer, and told him to back off. Fortunately after initially being quite agressive, he calmed down, and I sort of humoured him, and we chatted till he got off. I think he was just showing off abit, seeing how far he could go, and obviously didn't want to take it any further.

 

I wonder if anyone would of stepped in, if say, he had got physical with this elderly guy or me.

 

DH was none too pleased, but hey ho, I'd do it again.

 

I worry what sort of world we are creating for our kids, and especially those on the spectrum. Who would speak out on their behalf if they needed help......or would everyone look the other way?

[Bard]

The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men and women to say and do nothing - Edmund Burke

 

So we need to keep doing the right thing, intervening and being outspoken about what is necessary. Even if it's difficult and takes effort. One person can make a difference, so think how much difference a hundred could make, or a thousand, so long as none of us think that our actions and words don't count.

I always figure that even if it's just me, then no one would be able to say 'Well, no one objected'

[smiley]

Oh hunnybunny, do you really want to know what this elderly and grumpy old witch thinks?

Too many children full of their rights without being asked to consider the rights of others as well.

Lack of thought and consideration between human beings, not just rude children but adults who don't set rules or expectations for their children and don't show them how to behave through their own example.

Very little back up for those who want to change things, too much blaming without looking at root causes.

 

Nature/nurture, not enough nurturing. I often compliment parents on their lovely children, and point out that they didn't happen by accident. Good parenting is a huge influence. I wouldn't worry, your children have back up from you that will carry them forward through their lives with a value system that they can refer to and know what's a good choice.

Wouldn't our ASD children find the world easier if it were more tolerant and less based on the wants of the strongest?

 

Off to get a hot chocolate, trailing my black cloud behind me...

 

Totally agree - Bags, i've had several three year olds acting like that..............

*Out comes the leaflet for parenting classes.....* Which normally gets ignored

And this is in a vairy posh area too!

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

i with smiley

the things that i have heard littlies say, and the things they have offered me!!!

sad and scary world

we were chatting bout it today at work, how there is no discipline or general respect in this world any more

[Clare63]

Bagpuss, what an awful scene you had to witness, things like that really bother and worry me too, I too think I like it in my bubble and can deffinately see why Connor prefers his bubble to the one we all have to live.

 

<'>

 

Clare x x x

[Bagpuss]

DH got home from work tonight, and when I told him what had happened, he wasn't in the least bit surprised.

 

I suppose nothing shocks him anymore.

 

I dread to think how our eldest DD will cope in that environment..it's like dog eat dog.

[Tally]

It might all go over her head, Bagpuss. It did me, even though I know stuff went on because my mum worked there.

[pearl]

Very unsettling for you Baggy.

My two went to the same high school. Its like Bard says - the ones from decent families find the others from decent families & ignore the troublemakers. S found her own group of friends, and, aged around 14, declared, I'm sorry to say this mum, but some of the girls at my school are just slappers!

 

It was the hardest time for JP, and at one stage around year 8 I started looking at private options in the hope we could argue for funding, but thankfully it never came to that. It was a good school, but having no street smarts he was a target & there were some upsetting times. But he got through it, thank God.

[sueeltringham]

Bagpuss, I got really worried reading that. It read like the school where I teach. Not the parent bit, but the students cheeking teachers. I wished i could say it was not the norm, but unfortunately with some students it is. I teach in a very good secondary in a major city which has excellent results. Although the majoryity of students are fab, and are really lovely to work with, there are a large number who will cheek the teacher and we basically have no authority! You wouldn't believe some of the behaviour I encounter each day! It's very worrying, but I would imagine it happens in most schools.

 

Sue

[hev]

schools round here are exactly like that,i was by no means perfect at school but i would not have dreamt of talking to teachers like ive heard kids talk to teachers now

[Bard]

Very unsettling for you Baggy.

My two went to the same high school. Its like Bard says - the ones from decent families find the others from decent families & ignore the troublemakers. S found her own group of friends, and, aged around 14, declared, I'm sorry to say this mum, but some of the girls at my school are just slappers!

 

A few years down the line, my G did the same thing, but she called them chavs not slappers.

[oxgirl]

Although the majoryity of students are fab, and are really lovely to work with................,

 

I think it's really important not to forget this! Come on guys, I believe most kids are decent and caring and it's not fair to tar them all with the same brush. Of course, there are troubled kids and undisciplined kids and out of control kids, there always have been, always will be, but let's not get carried away. It's easy, when we see a group of noisy kids, to be intimidated and think they're all scary and out looking for trouble, but it really is a minority, isn't it??!! I have to keep believing that, anyway.

 

~ Mel ~

[Kathryn]

I think you're right, oxgirl. Trouble is, it only takes one or two with a bad attitude to spoil the good working atmosphere for the rest.

 

I don't think the teaching profession is generally respected in this culture, and this attitude filters down from the adults to the children. Which makes it very hard for individual teachers - any respect and authority they have is usually hard won - it doesn't automatically come with the role. Dealing with children who haven't learned boundaries at home makes it all the harder.

 

I got out of teaching quickly as I found I was too fragile to fight the constant battles with teens who didn't want to learn - I just wanted to teach my subject.

 

The adult students I teach now (mainly from Japan) do periods of work placement in primary and secondary schools here. They are surprised at first by the level of familiarity and apparent chaos they encounter in the classroom. Eventually they realise that learning is still going on mostly, even though the atmosphere is very different from what they're used to, where the relationship betrween teacher and pupil is very formal and distant, and the teacher's authority is rarely challenged.

 

K x

[Bard]

I think it's really important not to forget this! to tar them all with the same brush. Of course, there are troubled kids and undisciplined kids and out of control kids, there always have been, always will be, but let's not get carried away.

~ Mel ~

 

I didn't think that we were lumping them all together, and believe me, if you find them slightly alarming when you meet

troubled kids and undisciplined kids and out of control kids on the streets and round about, try being trapped in a room, trying to make them do something they don't want to do.

Anyway, pearl and I have perfect children!

[pearl]

Anyway, pearl and I have perfect children!

 

Well, they think they are so it must be true!

[David Matthew Baker]

Schools can be a bit of a battleground at times. Talking to a friend and from my own experience I gradually have came to the conclusion that all schools face a certain amount of these sort of problems. The thing is how the school deals with them. You tend to find they fit in one of two categories. The schools with a good reputation who often try to brush it under the carpet so it doesn't tarnish their name and the ones who have accepted their is an issue and have put measures in place to try and deal with them. The other problem is just how hard it is to do anything about difficult pupils. Luckily the schools I have worked at have all been very supportive. However you tend to find if you need to report a particular student the responce is we know about that student. However we don't have enough information to do anything more than use the standard internal behavioural policies. Which normally this type of student does exactly what you said Bagpuss. They laugh it off. They don't see it as a punishment. I also know at one of the schools I worked at one of my students (she admitted this to me) deliberatally played upto get sent to the inclusion unit because it was easier than struggling on in class where she felt she was making no progress. This normally happened in one of the lessons where she had no support as the school didn't have (and couldn't afford) enough support staff to place them in all the lessons with the students who needed it. Hence they had to target key subjects (English, Maths and Science) and then select the ones where they thought support would make the biggest difference (Geography was the other subject I spent most of my time in). It also depended on different teachers how you could support the students. I had one who didn't happily let another member of staff into their lessons so instead had me work else where with one student at a time.

 

This means you end up with a number of causes for the worseing behaviour in schools (I'm only 25 and noticed the standards of behaviour decreasing whilst I was at school - talking to ex-teachers they agree with my observations). The problem is there aren't many options for schools to use to deal with problem pupils. The most extreme measures take a long time to be worked through and often mean students get passed around which just means the problems moved else where. The measures imployed by special schools such as rewards for students who behave well are too expensive for mainstream schools to introduce across the entire range. Hence you can only target certain groups which can lead to the other groups feeling undervalued. Then you have issues with students who really need extra support but the school can't afford to put it in place as the students are not statemented. Each of the mainstream schools I have worked at made comments that the number of statements been issues had been seriously slashed which meant they weren't getting the financial support they used to but really the students needed the same level of support. It was just the goal posts that had be moved.

 

Going back further to when I was myself at school (so now speaking as a student) I remember that most of my lessons were fine. Where there were problems tended to be associated with where I was in the lower sets. Hence I think it also depends upon which set you are in at the school. The most disruptive students tend to be ones who end up in lower ability classes. This means that they end up in the bottom sets at school. Which in turn means they are often placed with SEN students. This is an unfortunate situation as I am sure it must have a bearing on the performance of the SEN students and in some cases teaches them bad habits and behaviours. Also some of the 'lower ability' students can actually be quite clever and manipulative. I find special schools in general to be a much more careing and supportive environment. They also have a bit more control over the structure of the classes and don't just have to do it on year group. Hence can setup groups to encourage students to learn.

 

Any way should probably be getting back to work. Keep collapsing when I get in so not got on here of late. Still enjoying it a lot though. Also helps that staff are better trained in special schools to deal with the types of behaviour they are confronted with. The behaviour isn't necessarily easier to deal with but it is usually easier to get support when needed. I had to help seperate two students yesterday but as all knew what to do it was managed fairly quickly without too many problems. Also parents generally tend to be more supportive.

 

EDIT: Had to change computers we were on as a class came in to the main computer room. Managed to claim the mini suite which is where we were meant to be first time.

Edited March 13, 2008 by David Matthew Baker

[Bagpuss]

Thanks David.

[sueeltringham]

That's really well put, David. Exactly what I wanted to say if I'd had more time to concentrate and write this (I'm supposed to be marking coursework!). I've received hardly any training in teaching SEN pupils, but yet I'm expected to teach pupils with very complex needs in large classes, sometimes up to 30. Fortunately I do have some SEN experience from working with SEN kids in my spare time and from living with my own children. I do a lot of supply work in the North East, and I'm not sure I agree with behaviour worsening, but students are much more disrespectful, confrontational, know their rights and are prepared to make a stand. When I first started teaching we had equally bad behaviour, but students weren't so cheeky, had more respect and would often say 'fair cop, sorry!' I think the lack of respect is a REAL problem!

 

Sue

[pookie170]

I do agree that most young folk do have respect for 'authoritaaaay' and will try not to get into trouble...much!!

I'm not teaching in a secondary school, but at the local college. And when mainstream schools AND behavioural units fail, it's me that gets the troublesome bairns to deal with!!

It's very difficult to cope with 12 teenagers, most of whom have no respect or motivation, though I must say, when I chat with them on a 1-1 basis, I often discover the kid is basically alright underneath the front and bravado. That there is one of the problems-it's like, SOOOO not cool to be good!! Also, many of these kids have extremely troubled home lives and/or parents who don't uphold a bit of discipline in the home. Some of their parents have no respect for authority themselves, so how the hell can they instill it in their offspring? I've found myself hearing about these youngster's weekends; some actually get smashed on various alcohols with their folks on a regular basis (or abuse even worse substances with same!) And there's always the few who've had a decent upbringing that have fallen in with the wrong crowd..... It makes me very sad.

On the up side, it's fab when you feel you've helped a couple of them become productive, useful young adults. I met one of my first ever students again, a while back, and he couldn't wait to tell me about his apprenticeship in a fancy restaurant. His enthusiasm and changed persona left me rather tearful, in a happy way. He was rather embarrassed to be congratulated, though, heheh!

 

I do agree with sue (and several others here) though, that this is a problem very much on the rise, and teachers in any educational establishment have no power to stop problem students from disrupting the class. One group I work with, several of the kids have been excluded 3 or 4 times- where's the deterrent if they constantly are allowed to return? And they also get priveleges and experiences that well behaved kids in mainstream will never be offered- seems too topsy-turvy to me.

They certainly are very aware of their rights...I recall a conversation I overheard between two of the kids in my class, in which they were discussing something they'd got up to that sounded very much illegal. I advised them that if they discussed these things in front of me, and I heard specific details relating to a crime, I would have no option but to inform the police. So one replied 'Yeah, but then I'd smash your face in.' and the other added, 'Yeah and the polis cant touch us till were 16, so I'm like, not bothered.'

The worst thing is, they're right.

Not advocating a return to corporal punishment or suchlike, but there needs to be measures in place that will actually deter the kids from misbehaving. As for parenting classes for their parents, it's worth a try (if they'll even go!) but I'm sorry to say I really haven't found them to have been of much benefit with some of the parents I've been involved with, whether the children are littl'uns or teenagers.

Yup, I believe most kids grow up to be decent, law-abiding adults who will go on to raise another generation of the same, but at the same time I know that there is a breakdown occurring in our schools at the moment that has to be addressed, because current measures just ain't cutting the mustard.

 

 

I just wish I could think of some!!

 

Esther x

Edited March 14, 2008 by pookie170

[Bagpuss]

Thankyou all so much for taking the time to reply <'>

 

We had a meeting at the school yesterday, and it didn't go well DS's form tutor stormed out in tears and slammed the door

 

DH and I sat and stared at Head of Year, feeling very, very disturbed by what we witnessed.

[Karen A]

<'> <'> Oh dear that does not sound very positive at all.Karen.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Karen.

[David Matthew Baker]

Ah that doesn't sound good. I ended up in the Library with 3 of the students from my special school today at the local mainstream. One of them was finding the noise level was hurting his ears and the teacher and support assistant were unfortunatally fighting a loosing battle. It was a case of against one of those students who doesn't believe they have to do a thing a member of staff says. It is the main reason I'm not sure why I still want to become a teacher. I'm not keen on mainstream schools. I can cope with certain types of behaviour but am not really one for the I know all my rights agressive teenager who thinks they rule the roost. Unfortunatally they too often do. You then also get to see bewildered teachers who really don't have a clue. It doesn't help when your best option is I'll send for so and so... I don't know how behaviour can be improved in mainstream but something needs to be done to help staff.

 

Hope you manage to get any issues you are having with the school sorted Bagpuss. I'm just pleased I was mainly in top sets. Seeing some of the bottom sets makes me realise how much more students in them have to fight (and be able to ignore distractions) to stand any chance of peforming well. They are not always the ideal learning environment. That said I have seen some nice targeted S.E.N. classes where students can do well. It is the ones who aren't so able but don't have special needs yet still want to peform I feel sorry for.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks David...I'm unsure how we sort this one out. How do you move on from the form tutor walking out in the middle of a meeting to clear the air?

 

Am I really that scary?

[Bard]

Baggy, this is purely a personal response, so maybe it's completely wrong.

 

As a teacher, I have to try and keep my gameface on, no matter what the chaos at home or elsewhere in my life.

At work, I have to hand in my planning file every week to be commented on, have to justify every decision, learning intention and choice I make in and out of class all the time to an enormous number of different people. I can't use planning from last year, because it's already obsolete. We are constantly having new initiatives hurled at us, all of which are imperative and must be implemented instantly and effectively in the workplace, and which cover every subject and teaching style you could possibly dream of. And there's OFSTED.

After over 20 years, I am still feeling inadequate, stupid, lazy and incompetent on a daily basis. I can't imagine another 'profession' where an experienced practitioner would feel the same.

 

So maybe it wasn't you or yours. Maybe she just couldn't cope with one more thing that she wasn't doing well, on top of the other 57 that week. Perhaps it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I know that I can retire in 2022, and if someone said I could stop work right now without financial penalties, I would in a heartbeat.

Sorry David and anyone else who finds teaching a life-enhancing experience, good luck to you.

[Mumble]

After over 20 years, I am still feeling inadequate, stupid, lazy and incompetent on a daily basis.

<'> <'> <'> <'>

Don't know what to say - I do understand though <'>

[Bagpuss]

Nope, I think it definately was us Bard

 

Unsure how we do move on now, other than remove our son from her form, which we've been pondering about today

 

*I've edited out most of the content of this post, because on reflection I felt I'd detailed too much information about the meeting*

Edited March 19, 2008 by Bagpuss

[Bagpuss]

After over 20 years, I am still feeling inadequate, stupid, lazy and incompetent on a daily basis. I can't imagine another 'profession' where an experienced practitioner would feel the same.

I know that I can retire in 2022, and if someone said I could stop work right now without financial penalties, I would in a heartbeat.

Sorry David and anyone else who finds teaching a life-enhancing experience, good luck to you.

 

Bard, I also don't know what to say. You've always come across as a smashing teacher and it's to read that is how you have been made to feel <'> <'>

[justamum]

I think we can all understand that teachers jobs are not easy but at the same time I think there are some teachers out there that take the attitude 'I am the teacher and I know whats best even if my knowledge is out dated and considered inappropriate now.'

 

Bagpuss your sons form teacher should have apologised as she was in the wrong. I would leave him the form a a little while as it sounds like the head may do something about as clearly the teachers remarks were not backed by the head...in principal. Let the dust settle then re-evaluated the situation and if no change then act.

[bid]

After over 20 years, I am still feeling inadequate, stupid, lazy and incompetent on a daily basis. I can't imagine another 'profession' where an experienced practitioner would feel the same.

 

I have never understood why teachers are so vilified

 

Boho <'>

[Bagpuss]

I think it's like most professions, some people have wonderful experiences and others don't unfortunately. I've met some outstanding teachers over the years, the majority have been smashing, and I do think teachers do a remarkable job, in difficult circumstances, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't come across any who had not caused me concern or distress.

 

My DH feels very similar to Bard about his job too, so I don't feel it's something which is solely felt within the teaching profession.

[warrenpenalver]

im not looking forward to the next 20-30 years worth of kids when they finally hit the streets if the degredation of parenting and society continues.

 

cant the government see that unless they change the discipline system in this country so that actions have real consequences then things will just get worse??

 

Often its not the kids fault, i doubt they are born evil, but with no boundarys or rules or consequences no wonder so many turn out as little terrors.

 

Teachers with Tasers would be useful in rough schools both for violent parents and students. A modern form of cane and harmless!!! You could argue such a measure might cause emotional damage but with some of the unruly terrors the short sharp shock may be just whats needed!!!

 

 

oh and we need to disband social services and replace them with an organisation that actually aims to improve things rather than just carry out its minimum legal obligation to avoid negligence law cases...........maybe then we can improve the parenting issues causing these kids to be bad behaved.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Karen A

[David Matthew Baker]

Most of my teachers from school tell me I am mad wanting to go into the profession. I also know one of my friends is now leaving it (to do a PhD) and won't miss some aspects of it. I think at times a lot is expected from teachers. Often they aren't given the support they need. Some of the lessons I have mentioned previously have had good teachers (or what I call good teachers incharge - someone who is passionate about what they are teaching, who wants to help others learn about it and expends all their energy towards that end). The problem is it does take all your energy. I couldn't manage some of the classes I have seen. I am too soft a touch. I also know that I will rather be out to survive any time I do in mainstream. The sooner I can make it into S.E.N. the happier I will be.

 

I think it is a pity how schools are now. I've met you Bard I know from that short period that you talked passionately about what you do. The problem is at times the negatives end up out waying the positives. The constant battle that goes on between certain students and teachers (or other staff) is very wearying. Even if you aren't the focus of it. Just sitting through a lesson where there are problems you often wish you could do something to help. The problem is with teaching not only do you have to be good at teaching but also good at:

 

Man management

Diplomacy

Peacekeeping

Motivation

 

I don't know many other jobs that ask so much from you. Not to mention when you go home on an evening there is work to do (at least as a teacher - S.A.s have it easy in this regard). At each school I've worked at though there have been students who I know I was making a difference for. I can (normally) take enough pleasure from that to keep me going. It certainly isn't a job choice for the faint of heart.

 

For anyone who is a teacher and having a bad time at the moment I hope things get better soon. I just wish (as I'm sure any other people who work in schools feel) that there were easy ways to overcome any issues in the educational system.

 

Bagpuss: Not sure I can suggest anything I'm afraid. It may be you did just happen to catch the teacher on a bad day though. If you have had to fight through the entire day it doesn't always take much to make you crack. I myself felt the most worked up I've been in a long time when I came home tonight. Spent an hour after school filling in a serious incident form. Really it was 3 incidents that ran into each other. It will be nice to have a few days off for easter. At times you do feel you just need to hang on and survive to the holiday.

 

Anyways people will think why do I want to be a teacher if I keep on like this. Normally I get more enjoyment from a day than I do worries. At least at my present school. That's why I want to go into teaching. Just have to decide Primary or Secondary again. This morning had Class 1s teacher tell me I'm a natural with the primary kids. I do like working with them too. I thought I'd made this decision though. Only thing I've really came down to is I want to stay on at the school and then do my training part time. I guess that at least means I'm making a little progress.