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westie

Organisational Skills - ADHD???

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westie   

My son (age 10, diagnosed PDA) has over last few months improved so much in terms of reduction in aggressive behaviour, controlling his temper more and behaving better in school and he seems to be much happier nowadays. A number of things may have contributed to this (new teacher, mum at home now, some work at home relating to anger management, behaviour chart at school - not needed now ) WE are SO pleased with this (and as ever hoping that it continues!)

 

However I do have some other concerns about things which I am not sure are PDA/ ASD related or if its something else as well (ADHD?) .I have listed a number of things about him below (would say they are centered around organisation, think some points may also fall under "executive functioning") and I wonder if any others have noticed similar traits in their PDA children/ themselves?

 

1)I have to prompt him to get dressed, and remind him to wash/ brush teeth each morning or evening.

 

2) He often rushes out of the door in a morning forgetting his lunch/ bag/ coat/ pe kit and myself to walk him there - he is focused on going to school but forgets all the things he will need in the day

 

3)If you speak to him it often appears he is not listening.

 

4) He does not sit still even when on pc or watching tv he constantly fidgets. He is same in school and the teacher overlooks a lot of it if it is not disrupting the others too much (I think if she pulled him up every time he would have been banned from the classroom. I have seen this for myself as I go in to help the children in the class once a week)

 

5) He takes off his coat/ shoes/ any other clothing he does not want to wear as soon as he walks in to the door and drops it on the floor and goes off to do whatever. This is same whatever he is doing, as soon as he loses interest it is abandoned.

 

6) He loses money, and other things that you would think are important to him

 

7) His bedroom is very untidy

 

If you ask him to look for something he can never find it even when its under his nose, and he appears to have no idea on how to make a logical plan to start searching for it.

 

9) After much effort on both our parts homework that he does finish often does not get handed in (and I have to stand over him and help him to make sense of it and keep him focused on finishing - I know the reluctance to do it is part of PDA)

 

10) He often leaves items at school such as PE bag, homework, shoes.

 

11) His mind is often focused on his obsessions (at the minute army, lego, bionicles and Bakuman) rather than what he needs to do

 

12) He is just starting to get the hang of telling the time

 

13) If he wants your attention he will be really obvious in your face no matter what you are doing and he often puts his hand up or shout out when he does not know the answer to a question

 

Part of his objectives on his statement are to work on these skills at home and school, but I do not have any bright ideas as to how (other than telling him each time, and to be honest I am getting fed up of hearing my own voice ). I have stuck up visual charts for weekday morning and evening routines - one of each in his bedroom and also the morning one in the kitchen, so he sees it before he runs out on me for school. Can anyone help with other ideas that do not involve so much verbal prompting/ reminding from me or the teacher?? Do you think more visual aids will help or will he just learn to ignore them?? Any books you can recommend?

Is it worth pursuing an assessment for ADHD? Would medication help with these things or are the other strategies enough in themselves to work therefore meaning a formal diagnosis not necessary to help him... Am worried about how he will cope in secondary school, and if he cant his behaviour will deteriorate again...

 

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mom   

My 15 year old has adhd, and it was as if you were writing about him.... he does almost all the things you're son does..... at the moment we have him on medication which is making a big difference to all our lives, Im not that happy with using meds but am going to try it for a while, but am also being very firm and strict and hoping when all his behaviours are under control we can withdraw the meds and he will continue to behave in the way we are teaching.... he gets counselling in school and anger management sessions, trying to arrange these outside of school as he is due to finish in April.... I think a diagnosis would help but my opinion is meds can only be a short term answer as the pros out weigh the cons....

 

Sharon x

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westie   

Sharon, thanks for your reply.

 

Which type of ADHD does yr son have - the mixed type, inattentive or hyperactive/impulsive?

 

I thought a long time ago about medication to help his behaviour but never actually got to discuss this with a professional (our local CAMHS do not recognise or treat PDA, last yr got referred to another service who initially mentioned looking again at diagnosis, but decided not to - I never mentioned all the stuff I posted it was about behaviour he was referred and thats all I talked about though I did fill in a few checklists which I am sure would have highlighted the things like organisation bad etc.... perhaps they never looked at them, or took them as all part of PDA/ ASD??)

 

I also have same thoughts as you about medication - re it allowing other interventions to work because it is helping them to calm/ be more attentive. As to whether they would be manageable later on when you have taken them off it who knows, fingers crossed. There must be adults who were medicated as children and are not now....

 

Some info. I read suggested that medication in many cases meant children were less likely to turn to illegal substances later on in life as a way to deal with their condition and its effects on their life. I found this quite reassuring.

 

Are you using particular behaviour approaches with him, or trial and error? Imagine its a bit harder with him being older now! Am dreading James becoming a teenager!!! (suppose a lot of parents do, having been there themselves :whistle: )

 

What about his other symptoms such as the disorganisation? Has that improved? Or are you working on "major" thing first - i.e. behaviour? before looking at other things?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions! Know you have posted a thread yrself so know you have other things on yr mind.

I always think posting your thoughts/ worries etc on a forum like this with other parents sharing same/ similar issues helps me, hope you find same. there are plenty of people on here who give useful advice and support to others thats why i keep posting!!

Edited by westie

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chris54   

Hi.

 

From my experience most of the things you list are typical of most 10 year old.

 

As far as my own ASD 8 year old son, apart from items 12 + 13 you could be describing him, and I cant say that it gives my to much concern.

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joanne1   

Hi there

 

I am in the process of getting dx with my 13 year old son. I have to say you could be living with my son! Exactly the same situation with us. I also wonder if it is anything to do with what he may have. I know that all kids can be lazy etc, but with my son he seems to do so many things that other kids dont. My younger son is nothing like him. Ds1 loses everything and I am constantly reminding him about where things are, and ,wheres your pe kit, wheres your coat etc. Sometimes i get fed up with the constant pressure of basically thinking for him and having to tell him to have a bath or wash and brush his teeth. Its everything really, and i get angry when he loses things, as he doesnt seem to realise the importance of these things. My ds2 is only 7 and i dont have to do half as much for him.

 

 

Joanne

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JsMum   

I did a reply and then it just disapeared, its soo annoying when the net just vanishes, I will try and remember what I wrote, anyway, here goes for the second time.

 

From what I have read some of it is the same as J, who has short term memory impairments, he also has difficulties with instructions if too many are presented, also if there is background noise and other sensory issues, so I would defo go and request more assessments in short term memory, auditory and sensory prosessing.

 

J has a number of programmes we use to help him with tasks and things he needs to remember, at school he had a visual picured list of the things he needed to remember, so school jumper, school cap, Pack lunch box though he rarely ate his dinner, pe kit, and letters where sent directly to me as I never got to know dates of important scedules.

 

J has a digital clock that shows the date, so he can see the day is monday, or tuesday, ect,, and that the month is Febrauary, he also has a calender that shows in colour coded symbols his scedule,

 

we had to also explain what was in a day, so a morning then an afternoon and a evening as he just didnt know where in the day he was, so we had to explain these to him too,

 

so you could have a yellow zone for the morning, a green zone for the afternoon and a dark blue zone for the evening with each task for each part of the day.

 

J needs systems, programmes, foundations to give him a platform to try and get a pattern, or a picture, so he can begin to predict the task, this in turn helps him remember.

 

Calanders, planners, organisation skills have helped more lately, but it takes time, we have been learning a lot about sequencing, patterns, processes, to help him understand the formation.

 

Look out for confidence and self esteem levels too, if your exhausted with helping him to remember, spin it the other way, how would you feel if all you did was forget but didnt mean to, getting told off, not just by mum, but teachers, leaders, it wares you down, constantly letting others down, the truth is J really trys, its just that he gets so distracted, or hasnt understood.

 

Stress and Anxiety effect performances, so look at activites that relieve these, swimming, cycling, craft class ect...

 

How is his sleep and his eating timings, is sleeping effected, eating at the right times of the day?

 

I would defo look at further assessments in the mean time look at memory, auditory and prossessing ideas that enhance these as well as stratagies that help you with organising, planning tasks.

 

JsMum

 

Edited by JsMum

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joybed   

Hi Marcus 13 and asd is also exactly the same with the exception of 12 and 13 also. He definatley doesn,t have ADHD as he is the laziest person i have ever met and if he walked any slower he would stop but his organisational skills are appalling.

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JsMum   
Hi Marcus 13 and asd is also exactly the same with the exception of 12 and 13 also. He definatley doesn,t have ADHD as he is the laziest person i have ever met and if he walked any slower he would stop but his organisational skills are appalling.

 

 

Sorry joybed but Ive read a lot of your posts and understand your son is having major problems with anxiety and could his lazyness and such slow reponces be an underlying issue, ie depression, sorry if Ive misinturprited your post if your meaning this in a light hearted responce to how you see your son.

 

JsMum

 

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JsMum   

More idea we use.

 

Weighted blanket, though he was assessed before going ahead, to ensure it was going to be useful Its worked brilliantly for J though understand some children may not like these as it depends what there sensory process is, so over sensitive, or under sensitive.

 

Visual Time, so time timers, time trackers, sand timers, something that shows time passing.

 

And a sensory room that gives him a place where he can be calm or self stimulate, even if its a little hidy way, what Ive learnt is that children with overload need a quiet zone a place of there own they can get away from all the input and output.

 

So do look at what space you could offer, even ifs a coubard under the stairs, its just so they can desentasize.

 

Family Fund will fund a Shed if you have space in the garden for this purpose if you meet their criteria also.

 

So just quickly sharing these, as they have been really benificial.

 

JsMum

 

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westie   

Thanks, J'smum for your suggestions to help. I too am thinking about calendars/ schedules etc. am meeting with teachers after hols as they supposed to be asking about ideas to help. they never ask him for homework or remind him about stuff or use some visual aid, so its not helping from that end. found a website about adhd innatentive, it had some useful info. on there too.

 

he does have some sensory issues, less so than he used to. he not a "huggy/ touchy" child and often strips off. he does sometimes hug me, usually you have to ask but remember his aunty almost crying once when he hugged her for first time unprompted about a year ago. not sure how weighted blanket would go down.

 

i use sand timer with youngest, suppose i am assuming he too old for such things but they may help.

 

tonight i feel guilty. earlier he had a friend round and they came down for tea at about 4pm. I told James to get his trousers on when he finished his tea, so that we could take his friend home and to go to nannans, I also said his top and socks were already on the floor near him so he did not need to get any more.

 

After about 15mins I knew they had finished and went in to find him messing about and asked him to go get some trousers on to go (he was in shorts by the way, not totally naked!). Again i reminded him his socks and top were on the floor in room.

 

When he came down he had new top on and new socks(though he had got the trousers on as well!), i told him off as I had told him more than once to not get new stuff out, and I am sick of washing clothes. My hubby then told me off for overreacting and getting cross. Thinking about it i do feel quite bad and mean, but it is so frustrating. I feel often like he is deliberately ignoring me. I know its more likely whatever is going on inhis head is more interesting/ important to him.

 

once his uncle gave him five pounds and he lost it within about 30 mins...... he also loses toys and can't spot things that are right in front of him, its like when you ask him to find it he panics and is so focused or stressed that he cannot see properly.

 

there are numerous other things about his organisation which i have not mentioned. His dad is v similar, when i first met him (me 16 him 18) he lived with his brother and their house was a right mess i used to go wash pots whatever. i am not a neat freak, ask anyone who knows me, lol, but I am really worried about how he will cope in secondary school/ in a job and as an adult living independently if he loses money, can't plan etc!!!! thats why i want to work on it now. I know like many of you it takes time to get through - has taken from age 2 to 9 to see significant improvement in behaviour (long may it continue) so I am used to chipping away and taking small steps to goals! Earlier I was more concerned about his extreme behaviour. Perhaps I just need something to stress about..............................................

Edited by westie

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Sooze2   

My boy is the same as yours on all the points you mention. Some of it is lazy boy stuff but with mine it is the ADHD and ASD as well.

 

He has just started medication (been on it 7 days) to see if this helps him to focus at school and not get out of his seat every 2 seconds, to stop him losing everything, being distracted and distracting to others, not even starting his work and being totally and utterly dissorganised in every way! Bless. He loses one jumper a week at the moment but I'm guessing the TA had a spare few mins to look for them the other day because he came home with 3!! The medication doesn't seem to be having much of an effect on this yet but it is half term so we shall see eh.

 

Go with your instincts is what I'd say, it may be worth keeping a diary for a few weeks and then asking to see your CHAMs person to discuss it with them.

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westie   

Thanks, keeping a diary of everything is also another thing i think may be beneficial for me to actually properly assess how he is affected and how often it happens. Obviously from yr replies there are many of you with children similar, Karen is right we could make a club!!! Anyway if I find any info. that has not been suggested on here, I will post it. X

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Fiona J   

I have not posted on here before but after looking at the replies to your message I can empathise and see that at least I am not alone!!

 

My son, too has all the behaviours you mention from 1 - 10.

 

He is now 13 and I have been struggling with him and trying to get intervention or people to work with him for about the last five years but have been passed from pillar to post with no-one wanting to help it seems.

 

The trouble is, now he is a teenager and much taller than me and becomes aggressive and even violent at times.

 

I have to constantly nag him to get ready in the mornings - and he will seem to forget waht he is doing and sit vacantly on the settee. This can lead to rows. But I know how stressed he would be if he missed the bus. Things like seeming to be unable to do up his laces - at 13! - yet I know when he has swimming etc at school he manages.

 

I sometimes feel that I have to be a slave to keep the peace and to stop from living in a pigsty. He won't put things away and from his pespective I am constantly nagging. He doesn't see the need to have a tidy room yet can never find anything and shouts when he can't. Every night I tell him to pack his bag - I physically have given up on this - he seems to take forever, and then there is something missing. So when he is about to leave in the morning he often takes his things out of his bag - oh so slowly! - to check and repack - never mind the time. Then rushes off without coat/ keys / lunch etc.

 

He loses things often but refuses to ask at lost property. Has lost a thick winter coat but refuses to let me get another, saying he's got one, he's just lost it. I know there's no point buying one as he wouldn't wear it. Since early December all he's been wearing is a fleece as a coat. This is also getting too small but I can't get him to shop with me for another. Mare!

 

Anyway, I could go on and on.....

 

How did you get a diagnosis for your son? My son refuses to admit there is anything, won't talk to me at all, has never told me how he feels about anything and will not come with me to doctors' appointments.

 

What's PDA by the way - I'm not used to the jargon yet.

 

Thanks,

Fiona

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mom   
Sharon, thanks for your reply.

 

Which type of ADHD does yr son have - the mixed type, inattentive or hyperactive/impulsive?

 

My son has mixed with excessive impulsiveness!

 

I thought a long time ago about medication to help his behaviour but never actually got to discuss this with a professional (our local CAMHS do not recognise or treat PDA, last yr got referred to another service who initially mentioned looking again at diagnosis, but decided not to - I never mentioned all the stuff I posted it was about behaviour he was referred and thats all I talked about though I did fill in a few checklists which I am sure would have highlighted the things like organisation bad etc.... perhaps they never looked at them, or took them as all part of PDA/ ASD??)

 

I made a self referral through my gp to camhs after the school flagged up the fact he could have adhd this was a relief after 13 years of struggling with adhd symptons which i had never heard of! Some gps are reluctant to refer but I INSISTED!

 

 

Some info. I read suggested that medication in many cases meant children were less likely to turn to illegal substances later on in life as a way to deal with their condition and its effects on their life. I found this quite reassuring.

 

Never heard of this but am delighted!

 

Are you using particular behaviour approaches with him, or trial and error? Imagine its a bit harder with him being older now! Am dreading James becoming a teenager!!! (suppose a lot of parents do, having been there themselves :whistle: )

 

Were sticking to the same method being firm but also positive it seems to be working any negative behaviour he is spoken to about it once then he is sent to his room for 15 minutes , he is a teenager which makes it harder and although he looks like a man he is very childish, is very settled at the moment and in a week has only left clothes where he stands once! we sit down and talk at least 4 times a day to discuss any issues which mite come up, I have written down the way he has to behave and add to it as we go along he seems to like this idea and i have noticed he is carrying it round and refers to it regularly!

 

What about his other symptoms such as the disorganisation? Has that improved? Or are you working on "major" thing first - i.e. behaviour? before looking at other things?

 

Disorganisation is his middle name! We are TRYING to adress all issues at once, i am currently supervising silently while he prepares for school the night before, next week I intend for him to do this himself!Any possessions left lying round the house he loses them for a week, this didnt work until he had no socks ( changes them constantly and leaves the whereever he is) great improvement from yesterday I came home from work to only find one pair of socks on the floor! Usually this would have been all his clothes and maybe 7 pairs of socks!

 

Sorry to ask so many questions! Know you have posted a thread yrself so know you have other things on yr mind.

I always think posting your thoughts/ worries etc on a forum like this with other parents sharing same/ similar issues helps me, hope you find same. there are plenty of people on here who give useful advice and support to others thats why i keep posting!!

 

Ask away Its great to be able to give advice.... This forum has been my sanity, I only stumbled on it one day and I havent looked back, before this I felt so alone now im not! All my answers are in the blue above... dont know how i managed to do that but hey im still learning! x

 

Love Sharon x

Edited by mom

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westie   

Thanks Sharon for taking the time to reply to the questions. Reading your replies has given me ideas of another couple of things to try (move the things he leaves around for a week, to see if he realises is one thing I may try, though there is so much I am not sure where I would put it, :rolleyes: ). Glad you have found this forum and are finding it useful and helpful.

take care,

Debbie

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bikemad   

Wish there was a way to quote more than one reply in my reply as theres so much here that is my son to a t it is mad but also comforting to know im not alone in dealing with it!!!!

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westie   

Hi Fiona.

 

PDA is Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome, find more info here (link to NAS website): -

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp...581&a=17634

 

Was a long road to diagnosis for eldest. It started when he was about just over 2 and the nursery he was in was concerned about his behaviour. He was assessed at child development centre,I had to go on parenting courses (they said bonding may be issue as I worked full time), then when he was almost 5 a speech and language therapist at the child development centre showed us checklist for PDA and we ticked every box! At same time the local CAMHS team were going to diagnose ASD, but guidelines for helping PDA children are different in some ways, plus the CAMHS team do not recognise/treat PDA and we were passed round for another couple of years until our health authority funded a diagnostic assessment at Nottingham (Elizabeth Newson centre- experts in PDA, autism and other communication disorders) and this confirmed he did have a pervasive development disorder and met criteria for PDA....

 

As he was so young when first attending appointments he probably is used to going to doctors. Imagine if problems are recognised at a later age the child may be more reluctant to go to appointments. This sounds really tricky for you. Do school recognise his problems? Can anyone else support you? Its a really hard battle sometimes, know it from my own experience and that of others I have got to know via a support group I attend, and some of the parents at school who have concerns about their child/ren. I learned that you have to keep phoning/ asking/ nagging! as no one else will do it, and probably because they have such large caseloads they will put things off till someone starts giving them hassle about it (thats just my view, if you are a professional reading this perhaps you can explain real reason why this appears to be case!) Anyway if you want to "chat" about it further, please send me a private message!

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joybed   

JS mum it was meant in a lighthearted way. I agree that marcus is depressed at the moment and there is a lot going on in our world at the moment, but he is also very reluctant to attempt to do anything for himself and will often refuse to help in even the smallest way even it is something to help himself. This is what i meant by lazy. in some ways it is my own fault as i sometimes do things as it is easier so i suppose they all just think oh well Mum will do it. I am not offended at all i have asked CAMHS if the think he is depressed and they have said possibly. To be honest i always leave a CAMHS appointment not able to remember what was actually said as they just skirt around the issues and never give any firm answers. Lots of talking but nothing getting done practically if you know what i mean.

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jb1964   

Yes, everything you say (other than item 9) I can/or could relate to my daughter (she's now 15) until quite recently and she's ASD - only thing is at the moment her bedroom is an organised untidy (if you know what I mean). I thought all of the things listed were areas that they could struggle with.

 

Take care,

Jb

Edited by jb1964

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westie   

Hi, just wanted to let you know that I have made something that will hopfully help him to remember what to take to and from school each day/ week. I used a keyring with his name on that he hangs on his bag anyway.

 

I printed out in large font the words STOP and THINK

 

Then I took photos of his bag, lunch box, coat, fleece, homework folder, pe kit, school book

then used powerpoint to make into card with words under reminding him to take and fetch home each day, or take on monday and fetch home friday (pe kit) as appropriate. Printed out, laminated and cut to size (not perfect but good enough) then I punched a hole in top left of each one and attached to the keyring. Idea is that he will look before and after school to make sure he remembers everything (sure he will need prompting to look by me or teacher at first but hopefully he will start to do it without a reminder)....

 

Its a start and I will let you know how it goes. Still waiting to speak to his teacher, but am thinking of writing down all my concerns (the post on here is a good start) and then sending to school and or the GP to see if they think he needs a referral/ more help.....

 

jb thanks for your reply. Thats my dilemma really, as I know that these things are associated with ASD, but other children have been diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD. On the NAS website about this topic it looks at opposite - children diagnosed initially with ADHD that is treated then when less hyper show more ASD traits.. Well James was hyper when younger but has calmed down a lot, but still fidgets etc and runs off in front all the time, gets a bit excitable, but it is the stuff associated with the other type of ADHD - when I look at the criteria for ADHD inattentive I could tick all the things that happen quite frequent and sure school would be similar as well, but again is this true of most ASD children?? aaaarrrggghh i am going to stop thinking and just try to work on the things that are an issue. After all change in label may not mean a change in management technique anyway.

 

Also I have always thought that if children sleep fairly well they cant have ADHD, but a book I read has suggested may not always be the case (and he does sleep well on the whole, ilness can interfere and reading old diaries he had a few months around age 4 of waking often due to night terrors) 8.30pm to 6 -7am is his typical sleeping pattern on a weekday - getting him to bed has been problem but use timetable now and have learned to deal with the delaying tactics such as asking questions/ talking about something - I tell him that if he late for bed he will have to get ready for bed even earlier next day so that he will be ready on time, this usually works!

 

Thanks again all you who have helped, and if anyone else wants to add something positive/ less successful that they have tried please do it will be a great help!

Edited by westie

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JsMum   
westie....Then I took photos of his bag, lunch box, coat, fleece, homework folder, pe kit, school book

then used powerpoint to make into card with words under reminding him to take and fetch home each day, or take on monday and fetch home friday (pe kit) as appropriate. Printed out, laminated and cut to size (not perfect but good enough) then I punched a hole in top left of each one and attached to the keyring. Idea is that he will look before and after school to make sure he remembers everything (sure he will need prompting to look by me or teacher at first but hopefully he will start to do it without a reminder)....

 

Thats brilliant, and very creative, and like you say a visual prompt to help him remember his belongings, I like the fact you have taken photos of his things, which will be more spersific and personal, its a great Idea that might catch on by other parents, Id be copywriting it now, if I where you.

 

JsMum

 

 

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westie   

I am not sure whether I have read this or have adapted the idea from something I read - have been reading a lot lately both books and online. If I find out what it was I will post the source of the idea!

 

I will also post about how things are going with this idea, and hope anyone else who thinks to try it will post to let us know how they are doing as well.

 

The stop/ think words were suggested by a professional via another forum apparently its a technique used with ADHD children where words are on opposite side of a card, and you put the card up where child will see it and (hopefully) it reminds them to pause and think about what they are doing. I figured if I laminated the STOP/ THINK words also and put them on the keyring before the pictures it may help him to concentrate on the pictures more....

 

I started off doing drawings with kids coloured pencils but they were so bad I did not want to embarrass him or myself by putting them on the front of his bag!! :P , then I thought about taking pictures of his actual belongings with my mobile phone! - they are much nicer to look at than my dodgy attempt at drawing the items, :D

 

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westie   

A useful website I found about ADHD - inattentive was

 

http://www.goaskmom.com/

 

it has some useful tips on it about how to help your child to focus etc. tips are from parents who have used this.

 

suggests things like taking a picture of what a "tidy room" looks like so your child has a visual picture to use as a goal/ standard

 

lots of other tips as well!

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KarenT   

Hi Westie

 

Just a word about our own experience with visual prompts. We've been using similar tools for 2-3 years with J, checklists compiled with personal photos of J's own things (eg pyjamas, backpacks etc) and he's never got the hang of them despite a huge amount of effort and consistency on our part. He is so inattentive and easily distracted that he can't focus on the lists without support (ie someone standing over him and pointing at them) so they haven't been as useful in our case as we'd hoped. I think it's a fantastic idea and well recommended by people working with ADHD, but it has had limited success for us.

 

Social stories have been more successful for us. J functions best when he understands what is expected of him and has a clear understanding of rules and how his behaviour affects other people. Key phrases that we repeat are (like yours) Stop Think Act and Staying Calm Is Good For Me.

 

The key to J is calm. If I can keep him settled and relaxed then his ability to think clearly increases and he's more likely to be able to focus on what he has to do next, although he almost always needs support and reminders. I guess it's just something we have to keep working on.

 

J sleeps well too - but more than makes up for it when he's awake!

 

Karen

x

 

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BuntyB   

Hi,

This sounds just like my 14 year old daughter. She doesn't have a dx as such, but was tested borderline on dyslexia, although her English is extremely good and it was suggested she may have dyscalculia. Certainly she has always had a problem with numbers.

 

On testing she had problems with her 'sequential memory' in other words, she cannot follow a task through without losing track. I despair all the time over lost items! I did get support with this included on her IEP at school- for what good it did- she was always in detention for losing things despite it being a recognised problem!

All I can say is tackling one subject at a time (eg shoes in box) and constantly repeating practice of into house, shoes in box, does eventually sink in. I think the temptation to ignore stuff is the worst danger. If he can tie laces at school, perhaps being a bit more matter of fact about practicing skills at home might work.

 

I'm thinking of having a website to Name and Shame my daughter with her bedroom. It is appalling and although we are talking teen's bedrooms, there is appalling and total chaos. When chaos stresses her as much as I know it does, it doesn't make sense, does it? But I honestly believe she has no idea how to start tidying up.

 

Just on a funny point, if you send your child to tidy up, will you find them hours later sat in the mess gazing pointlessly at a small pice of plastic or an elastic band?!!!! :P

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westie   

quick update on yesterday (first day using the reminder pictures on keyring)

 

When we were almost ready to set off for walk to school I reminded him to look at the pictures to help him remember what to take.

 

So he got his bag out (his bag is first picture - as the keyring is hung on his bag remembering this item should not be a problem!)

then next one was the lunchbox picture, so he finds this and puts it in his bag. Next picture is of his fleece. - he does not take one unless I force him and this morning I did not, so this ok too.

 

Then he gets to the coat picture. He walks 2ft to cupboard under stairs, lifts his coat off the hook and puts it on, fastens it.............................................................................

 

then walks straight to front door minus bag, lunch, pe kit etc etc, and starts to open door :whistle:

 

it was like a switch had been flicked in his brain which said "when your coat is on you must exit!!!" :D

 

so i shouted him back, reminded him to check his pictures again, and he looked at them all and made sure he had everything he needed...

 

so not too bad a start.

 

 

 

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westie   

just an update: have appointment with EP and teacher at school to talk about some plan of action to help with this, also my GP has referred to single point of access team who phoned today to say they going to see if they can refer to CAMHS without me having to go see them first as they have lots of info. from my letter to gp (longer version with more examples of whats on here) but this may take about 4 months if they will accept as not emergency. Well things moving even if slowly.

 

Today J's friend came round and about 5.30pm I drove him home cause it was raining and he had no coat (its about 5 mins away, and across 3 roads) and then when I had dropped him off I called in my nieces across the road from his friends house. a few minutes after I got to my nieces, J's friends mum phoned my mobile to say J had turned up at their door barefooted, and with no coat on to fetch his friends mobile as he had left it at our house, then J turned round and started walking home, (without seeing my car parked across road). I rushed off in car, and caught up with him half way home, soaked and with very dirty feet but seemingly oblivious to these things. Note: he has never been allowed to walk to his friends alone, also his dad was not even aware he was out of the house he thought he was upstairs in his bedroom.....

 

Its like all that was in his mind was getting the phone back and so he just did. Its worrying how he can be so impulsive and one track minded as to do that.

 

He left his new shoes in his friends garden yesterday and it rained so they got soaking wet, we only realised they were outside this morning. when he had to find them as we were about to go out......

 

Edited by westie

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with to forgetting and losing certains objects does he have short term memory problems? as this could raise certain questions whether he has dyspraxia? how is his co-ordination,balance,motor skills? maybe he needs be assessed for dyspraxia sounds like his organistation skills are deeply affected? am i right?!

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joybed- same happens to me at CAMHS wel now adult services in MH they skirt around issues dunt have practical solutions or advise expect you to do their work aswell as effort and thats unfair!

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unable to do shoe laces at 13 years old could be dyspraxia be agressive and violent could be AS/ASD,ODD,PAS has any of them been checked out for him? as for him saying he can't to you that probably lack of self-esteem/confidence and getting frustrated and annoyed at himself!

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westie   

my son has very poor organisational skills, he cant hold a pencil properly and is not terribly co-ordinated, when I did take him to swimming lessons as group, he was distracted easily (not naughty) but just swimming before she told him to, and being impulsive. Then I have a friend who is a swimming instructor and she gave him some 1:1 lessons and she found he could not co-ordinate arms and legs together so he cant swim very well. He doing Taekwondo now which is helping a little. He clumsy still. Its never clear as to whether he bumps into stuff and trips because his mind is elsewhere and he is focused on whatever in his head rather than whats around him. when he was 7 he did have an assessment by Occupational therapist, they said low/ poor muscle tone. Would they have not picked up if he had dyspraxia?? If you see the state of his writing and his punctuation and spelling you would think he had dyslexia, but his reading is fair (not something he chooses to do, and sometimes he misses words out so you have to ask him to go back)... I am paranoid I think! He is def. colour blind, not sure what that has to do with anything but will put it anyway......

 

With regards to maths he was behind but had some extra support and moved up to what school tell me are average for his age. He is reluctant to do tests etc, and gets poor marks, also because of his PDA and his low self esteem he is often reluctant to try if he thinks it too hard so gives up easily and tries all sorts of tricks to avoid it....

The man who phoned from the Single Point of Access team asked if he had learning disabilities, and I said no I did not think so.....

It's all so confusing, when I read reports from all the people who have tested over the years, wherever he has a lower than usual result they put it down to his PDA meaning he reluctant to do it, and sometimes I wonder is this really the case or could they miss something? I think its going to be tough in secondary for him. I am visiting local mainstream secondary soon, and also plan to visit a couple more schools to see which one will be best, the local mainstream very focused on academic performance and strict (run like a 1950's grammar school is how one ex member of staff proudly described it) and I am not sure it will bring out the best in my son because he hates tests and academic work unless its a topic of interest, he needs teachers who understand how he works and who can be flexible in how they ask him things, and also he will need a lot of help organisising himself to move from one place to another will all stuff he needs (they dont have lockers so have to carry everything with them each day and they get detention if they dont hand in homework, so I best be prepared to never see him till late because he forgets to hand it in even when its in his bag!)

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punctuncation,bumps and trips and daydreaming could be dyspraxia and no it can take ages to put pieces together to actually realise what else may he have! poor handwriting is also a sign of dyspraxia as with the other things i have mentioned already! low and poor muscle tone is alos sign of dyspraxia so this could be an anevue worth exploring further! it sometimes takes longer to recognise as other condtions are in they way as such like PDA which delays other diagnosis connected to the spectrum even further! as it may look like all mixed into one condition only but as you know the spectrum overlaps into other related conditions! such as dyslexia ,dyspraxia etc so could be liking he has more than one thing there!

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poor pencil grip is also sign of dyspraxia so i would say from my own personal experience it likely dyspraxia is hidden somewhere underneath it all as low self-esteem i know is common with most spectrum disorders and this also applies for dyspraxia i would read up on books about it like 'chaged in choas' and get in touch with the dyspraxia foundation is find out more information on this condtion signs and look up on google also to create your own research on whether you think he fits the picture of this! i', a dyspraxic i would definetely say he has alot of the signs and maybe if looked into deeper the picture would fit him so much!

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Sally44   

If you go onto google advanced search and type in www.schoolbehaviour.com/conditions it brings up a very useful website that lists a number of disorders and symptoms/behaviours associated with them. (for some reason if I just type in the above link without using google I always get directed to another site). Anyway, some of the issues posted sounded to me like Executive Function Disorder.

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Karen A   

Hi.Your son sounds very like Ben too.I could say yes to everything on the list.Ben has a dx of AS and dyspraxia so take your pick it could be both or either. :D Karen.

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Karen A   
If you go onto google advanced search and type in www.schoolbehaviour.com/conditions it brings up a very useful website that lists a number of disorders and symptoms/behaviours associated with them. (for some reason if I just type in the above link without using google I always get directed to another site). Anyway, some of the issues posted sounded to me like Executive Function Disorder.

 

Is executive function disorder recognised as a seperate disorder Sally ?

Everything I could find via google suggests it is part of the profile in ADHD,dyspraxia or ASD ?

I wonder if you have any more information as I have not come across the condition before .Karen.

 

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bid   
Is executive function disorder recognised as a seperate disorder Sally ?

Everything I could find via google suggests it is part of the profile in ADHD,dyspraxia or ASD ?

I wonder if you have any more information as I have not come across the condition before .Karen.

 

I know a very tiny bit about this from work.

 

As far as I understand this, it's caused by actual brain damage? Or maybe it was but only in the instance with which I am familiar?

 

Bid :)

 

 

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