Does your child control you?

[mum22boys]

Hi all,

 

Just wondering,

 

I got talking to a parent today who has a special needs child but NOT on the spectrum. She said to me you shouldn't let your child control you. I got thinking and M does control us and I see no way out of this. It is easy for her to say when her child does not have the problems coping with everyday life that mine has.

 

I am fully aware constantly that M is very controlling and I have to constantly remind him that I am his mother and he is the child - which he totally disagrees with, in fact he often says he is the 'teacher' and quotes all his teacher has been saying. I guess he does this to be in a controlling position. I walk on eggshells constantly with him being fully aware that he might 'flip' at any moment. So how can he not control us?

 

Does anyone else feel like this and are you in the same no win situation. Would be interseting to hear your thoughts.

 

mum22boys

[Bullet]

Not at the minute - but then he's under three foot and can't answer me back

[ceecee]

I would say that quite a few adults and children with a.s. like control.I think it is their way of feeling secure particularly in areas they struggle in emotions, socialising etc.

[JenRose]

Yes definately identify with you on this, M is very controlling, it has got better since he has been out of school but he will try and control anything.

 

I used to be like this with my husband but im not anymore, i didnt realise i was doing it but looking back now i was awful.

[ceecee]

I stop myself from being too contolling as well but i would guess the more severe your a.s. is the hared it is to not be controlling.

[jb1964]

Yes definitely, my daughter is 12 and I'm continually walking on eggshells especially every morning (and night-time) before school when anything can erupt - or if my little 3yr old is asleep and I don't want a screaming fit.

 

Try my best to put as many rules and regulations in place - because she does work better for this - but still has answers for everything and is always right.

 

Having said all that it does depends how high her anxiety levels are to the amount of control she tries to have and I really do have to face the music very often because I will not give in to it - sometimes she copes better than others when I do this - again I think it's the level of anxiety she has at that particular moment.

 

Sometimes I find I can get 'away with' saying something that I couldn't on another day - again I'm sure it's all to do with her anxiety levels.

 

Jb

[Lucas]

I've read through and I still have no idea what is being talked about. What definition of 'control' is being thrown around here? Everybody controls everyone else- when someone says hello to me, they are putting pressure on me to say it back which is fine most of the time but they fail to see when I may be distressed already enough. Oh I love the irony of how I bend over backwards to be uber-empathic to others but don't get the same back for some reason.

 

I'm positively wincing at Ceecee's comments but I don't think I can answer them without starting a rant. I agree that there is an instinctive reaction to assert control in areas where a person can feel they have none, I do not agree that these areas encompass emotions and socialising in the sense that the percieved problems are the fault of the Autistic. I seriously bang my head against a wall because NTs never take responsibility for the utterly unreasonable faults of their own and always blame the Autistic.

[jb1964]

I do not agree that these areas encompass emotions and socialising in the sense that the percieved problems are the fault of the Autistic. I seriously bang my head against a wall because NTs never take responsibility for the utterly unreasonable faults of their own and always blame the Autistic.

 

Sorry Lucas, if anything has offended you - it is unreasonable to use the word 'control' really in these circumstances.

 

If I'm honest I feel like I'm being controlled but that probably is far from fact.

 

Frustration sometimes makes you feel like this.

 

Apologies again,

Jb

[jen]

On occasions my 8 year old ASD is controlling but not all the time. It also depends on how strong you are feeing at the time of the incident.

 

Jen

[hev]

yes i feel my son controls me,i do everything as not to upset him and affect his moods,i cannot think of another word apart from control as this is the word which applies best to our relationship,i am controlled by steven and i wish i wasent

[Mother in Need]

Lucas, I don't think anyone is trying to blame anyone here, but only to understand. And no-one is saying NTs don't have their faults, I know I've got plenty and make mistakes all the time.

 

Yes, my 12 year old is very controlling; but when is he actually in control (ie doing this consciously and aware that he is trying to control the situation and trying to get the most out of it) and when not? It is knowing that difference, and then being able to act on it, that's what I'd like to know. And then ofcourse, there is doing it consciously in order to make sense of this world and feel that bit more secure (or at least less at a loss)? I agree also that it seems to have to do with his anxiety levels, though those can change extremely quickly (well, from not so anxious to very anxious anyway, not the other way round, that takes ages).

[bid]

Lucas,

 

I agree with you!

 

Bid

[justamom]

Yeah, my 12 year old is very controlling at times!!!

[baddad]

I've read through and I still have no idea what is being talked about. What definition of 'control' is being thrown around here? Everybody controls everyone else

 

 

Thanks for that Lucas - an absolutely accurate definition of the HUMAN condition as identified by every single branch of psychology from freud to the present: Everybody control's everyone else...

 

No doubt about it, many people on the spectrum do it differently - in a far more straightforward, honest and patent way (sneaky underhandedness IS much more an NT trait, if we're going to go for sweeping generalisations!) and there is also a reasonable argument that the things people on the spectrum will seek to control are far more fundamental (i.e. seeking to retain some sort of control over an often hostile and bewildering environment) and (from an NT perspective) 'trivial', because they lack the duplicity and manipulative nature that tends to underscore the mind games NT's like to practice...

Now before anyone leaps in to attack MY sweeping generalisations - I KNOW... I'm just seeking to redress the balance!

Thankyou also for not slipping into 'rant' mode, and i hope you'll accept my apology for my own lack of discretion!!

 

L&P

 

BD

[rainbow queen]

my 4 year old thinks he controls me and my 3 year old -as we have no father around i think he also thinks its his role too

 

i came up with phrases that i repeat to him alot like

"whos in charge?" to which i remind him he says mummy

 

and "who pays the bills/looks after the house ect...."...................mummy

"who looks after you both and takes care of you ?.....................mummy

 

sounds odd i know -but its as if this needs to be said as he dont assumes it himself

 

apart from that and constant reminders that hes the child and i am 30 years old and older/wiser than him,and i tell him what to do -not sure what else u can do

 

ive got charts and rules up on fridge door and naughty chair and egg timer so i do try

[neda]

Sorry for long post but I had positive parenting social worker round the other day, first time she has been in and hubby, girls and A has been about, I was pretty stressed and now I've got too much to think about.

 

Oldest NT girl was on top form trying to manipulate me to allow her not to do her homework so she could go out as she thought I wouldn't put my foot down whilst we had the 'visitor'. Dealt with her, homework was done and she went out to play.

 

Well A decides to show his true colours for first time in front of her, he'd had meltdown in nursery where I left him hiding in corner with his LSA. Picks him up from classroom where he was only one with nursery teacher. All other children playing game in separate room, A didn't want to take part again, becomes disruptive and is removed from the room. This continues after picking him up, whilst speaking to PP worker he comes up and starts hitting me, tell him to stop, ask him whats wrong etc... to prevent total meltdown. PP tells me that he has control and although he may have problems, a lot of his behaviour is attributed to child willfullness. When we are getting into these situations he can manage to control them because I'll give in to prevent a meltdown, apparently he has picked up on this and puts it to good use.

 

She said its obvious I'm in control of girls after way I dealt with oldest, she done what I requested as there was no issue with consequence, she would be grounded. I use different tones of voices when dealing with their behaviour and its softer tones with A, she said to the point I sound apologetic even though he is behaving badly.

 

At present we have no consequence for A as he has no attachment to anything. Isn't allowed out to play as he has no sense of danger so can't ground him etc.. etc.. We are now trying to decide what we use as a consequence to his action. Spoke about nursery and situation with group games she said she will take it back to the nursery that he is using his control techniques here as well and he shouldn't be removed. This is what is worrying me the most as I feel this is forcing social interaction and group playing upon him, but according to pp he has total control over these things. She said these behaviour strategies had been used and proven to work on children with problems much worse than A's.

 

It seems in preventing meltdowns I'm making a rod for my own back??? Can't get my head round this now.

 

Any thoughts would be welcomed.

[mum22boys]

Well I never meant for this to get so deep!!

 

Lucas - I never meant to offend. It is just a word that I use to describe my 5 year olds behaviour when he is obviously not coping with things too well. He talks to me as if he is the adult and I the child, he speaks to me as if he is the teacher and I the pupil. in effect he is assuming a more dominent position to me so I believe he is trying to control me, I can think of no other word for it.

 

I really hope no one was offended, it certainly never meant to come across like that.

 

mum22boys

[Stephanie]

I think sometimes we are all guilty of doing things the easy way to give us an easier life.

 

Sometimes this makes it seem like our children are ruling us ... and yes it is more apparent when they are on the spectrum ... but these children can be clever and manipulate us too.

 

I decided when my son was three that I wasn't going to pander to his every whim or buy him everything he wanted (just to make it easier in shops so he didn't have a meltdown). Also just because he didn't want to go out, didn't mean he wasn't going out.

 

Actually I went against all the advice I was given .... about keeping him to routines, not upsetting the apple cart etc.

 

He soon realised there was no point trying it on. Now he is great, knows the score, doesn't get stressed about anything, I always as a habit tell him what we are going to be doing "Tesco's then Grandma's ... and if she isn't in, then into town". But there are times now when he doesn't even need to be told in advance.

 

I am still guilty of giving him an easy ride sometimes, maybe more so now that he has a DX and I am sure my family think he is the most spoiled child ever (they don't know).

 

I think sometimes we are so fearful of trying something new, we just don't bother.

[baddad]

Hi mum22boys -

 

just wanted to reassure you that there was nothing in your original post that offended me, but some of the sweeping generalisations that followed did!

I would totally agree that children can be and will be controlling of those around them, but this has nothing to do with AS it is just a fact of life... I think there are major differences sometimes in the way 'our' kids go about exerting that control, because (and the diagnostic criteria backs this up completely!) their methods are by and large less subtle than those of their NT peers. One of the other major differences is that 'our' children's experience of the world is often far more stressful generally (because they don't understand/identify so many of the social nuances), and so they seek to 'exert control' over far more basic things and situations.

 

Getting the balance right IS a difficult one, because the consequences of getting it 'wrong' (major meltdowns/self harm/destroyed property) CAN be much more severe (and this is something those outside of the loop won't be able to identiy with, which is a good reason for just not listening to them!), but not doing everything you can to find a route around the issue is in itself destructive and opportunity-restricting...

 

Two 'golden rules' : Firm boundaries and consistency of approach - those two things CREATE order out of the chaos, and enable our kids to 'cope' with all the other mess... Over time, as stephanie said, the amount of order they need to exert diminishes, because the fundamental order (boundaries/consistencies) remains intact...

 

Hope that's helpful...

 

L&P

BD

[KarenT]

I reckon ALL children control their parents' lives to a certain degree. We all have to live around our children's needs and commitments - whether that's making sure they get their homework done or getting them to swimming lessons when we'd rather be doing something else, or the more complicated needs that many of our children have. Control only really becomes an issue if children are being allowed to manipulate their parents to get their own way - deliberately and not resulting from any condition, and then it becomes a question of responsibility. As parents we are responsible for making sure our children's needs are met appropriately so we're the ones who have to set the groundrules and ensure they're adhered to - as adults we're supposed to know best because we've got the experience to back that up, children generally don't.

 

We too have had the 'experts' telling us J has too much power in the family but it simply isn't true. His aren't the only needs we need to consider - there are two other people here after all and we have rights as well. We plan and explain and do things in a way that suits our family but isn't that what everyone does? Consistency is key - yes means yes and no means no, required behaviour and actions are always rewarded and the inappropriate never goes unchallenged. In that way we limit the opportunity for J to control the family but that doesn't stop him trying. He'd only have 'too much power' if he were allowed to succeed in manipulating us, and he never is.

 

Karen

x

[call me jaded]

How deep is all this for a Saturday morning?

 

Control and anxiety are different sides of the same coin, and all children benefit from consistency and routine. There you go, my views in one sentence.

 

On the OP, I've always said that my son has been excellent at training me to be the parent that he needs me to be.

[oracle]

If someone with autism does not want to do something they are very up-front about it. They have not learnt the art of going along with something because it is expected of us even if we do not really want to do it.

 

This means that from a very early age we 'are' controlling our kids. I know that it can be argued that this is part of the training they will need to fit into society and that we all have to conform - but the difference is that a child with ASD - especially a young child will not understand this. NT children appear to have an understanding of the rules without having been taught them. Our children need to be taught them - but there is a difference between being taught and beating them with a big stick.

 

Yes I probably do give my youngest (9) more rope that your average 9 year old. That is because I often have to give detailed explanations about why I need him or want him to do something. I also take on board that after a stressful outing or situation he will be more prone to overload and that he will need come down time. Why is that so bad. It's not him controlling me it's us 'both' sharing a common understanding that we are different and require different things.

 

 

NEDA - did PP for one moment stop to ask why your Nursery aged son did not want to go and play with his peers? Because it does not look like it to me. Did she consider the sensory implications - the noise - the light - the sheer volume of other children. Did your son understand what he was supposed to be doing and why. Does it matter? Clearly not he is just expected to be forced to 'fit it and conform'

 

My kids only control me when they are trying to control their environment and trying to make sense of it. How can a small child make sense of a play are - because I would like to place a bet now that he does not understand what play is.

 

If it's all about control then I want out now. I want to enable my sons to understand their environments and what is required of them in certain situations and at home I want to allow them to be themselves.

 

I often have to remind my two that they are treading the fine line but I hope that I do that with love and understanding and not a need within myself to dominate. How can you control what you don't understand? We should aim to understand our kids before we attempt to control them.

 

Sorry - there is always one who rants

 

Carole

[nellie]

I've always said that my son has been excellent at training me to be the parent that he needs me to be.

 

ditto

[Lucas]

Sorry Lucas, if anything has offended you - it is unreasonable to use the word 'control' really in these circumstances.

 

If I'm honest I feel like I'm being controlled but that probably is far from fact.

 

I'm glad that one thing has been cleared up which helps me understand better: the difference between feeling controlled and actually being controlled. Remember that the communication barrier is mutual and Autistic children especially *always* feel controlled, as Asperger said his patients were "Compliant but protective of their freedom." This is also why you can read many articles on the internet by Autistic adults that quite rightly feel it neccessary to be very challenging to parents and professionals.

 

I would strongly warn against reading meanings or motives into it when an Autistic person appears manipulative; they will not be doing it in the same way and usually not for the same reasons as non-Autistics.

[lsw146]

I see where you are coming from on the feeling controlled and being controlled. Today we did not try to make our daughter conform to NT rules and as a result we began to feel like she was controlling us. She was upset that she couldn't have everything she wanted in the coffee shop and began to make her communication with us agressive and abrupt. To others this looked like a stroppy child having a tantrum but I knew it was because she had an idea in her mind of what she was going to eat and drink and when I said no she couldn't sort a new idea quickly enough. Once I had made the decision for/with her she calmed right down. It was great example of how we can share our space without one or the other dictating the pace.

 

She went off down the road singing , dancing and talking very loudly whilst cuddling her cushion. Normally on a busy Saturday we would call her back and quieten her down (meltdown ensuing) but today we let her be HER with a much happier outcome for all.

 

As paretnt we will always have time when we have to say NO (areas of safety etc.) but I (on a good day) am slowly learning to use NO when it really matters and not to put my NT boundaries on her unless absolutely necessary.

[neda]

NEDA - did PP for one moment stop to ask why your Nursery aged son did not want to go and play with his peers? Because it does not look like it to me. Did she consider the sensory implications - the noise - the light - the sheer volume of other children. Did your son understand what he was supposed to be doing and why. Does it matter? Clearly not he is just expected to be forced to 'fit it and conform'

 

My kids only control me when they are trying to control their environment and trying to make sense of it.

 

Carol, she never asked, I just told her there was still very obvious problems as this is happening virtually every day, but I do not want him to be forced to take part, particularly because when he was in another part of the nursery he was labelled a 'bad boy' by the other kids, because they seen his disruptive behaviour when things were too much for him.

 

I'm seeing her again on Tuesday and I'm telling her that I don't want her to tell the nursery to keep him in the room as it will be too much for him, he will totally flip when they start singing the songs and it won't benefit anyone. I'm noticing some of his sensory issues are becoming more apparent so I'll be highlighting this to nursery.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, sometimes I just need someone else to confirm what I am thinking.

[Malika]

Hi to all, <'>

 

If I think only from my own point of view then my children do controle me quite a lot ASD or NT, but if I go on the other side of the fence I am the one who is in controle most of the time for so many things in life, in fact for me everything and everybody controle me to a certain point and I do the same I think the "problem" is not the controle it is the degree of it the recurence and the intention behind it.

 

In some way as I get older I am becoming much more lay back as my Mum was quite controlling but never get me to comply except if I had decided that it was OK to do so what ever the reason for it, I mean by this that the only real controle is when the persone mind is controle the rest is just appearances, you may give people the impression that you listen and comply but your thought may be of the most rebellious and acting out in a way while you think the other way, is a form of controle as well.

For people with AS it is different as they do not play that game but just express their thought openly. So their form of controle is at the first degree and more apparent which does not mean that they are more controlling probably less they can be easely manipulated and this can be use to controle them as well.

 

With my children as far as they accept certain rules for their health and safety I am very lenient but if they push the boundaries too far then they know that I can be quite forceful, but they rarely see that side of me as I tend to absorb all the shock like a cushion letting them enough space to express themself.

I know that my partner think that I am not strict enough especialy since they grow older but I see it as a difference of culture beside being a mother I like to see them happy and have no taste for useless conflict.

 

Malika.

[Guest flutter]

control i think is a intersting word as a description,

but when we have kids we make changes to our lives that work around them, as we do when living with others

We make those choices.

i make choices on whether or not my dd is "in contorol" ie she gets to do what she wants?

the days i feel soo bad i cannot battle then she within reason does her own thing, but in order to keep her mainstream, we dont do this a lot

not sure this made sense sorry, in too much pain

[Tylers-mum]

Most days Yes but then we have some good days too.